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LegalGround >> Anyone applying to law school this fall?


10/3/11 2:47 PM
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Gracie KO'd by Blackuraba
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419 - I wouldn't mind pulling 6 figures to wear a tweed jacket with elbow patches and ask socratic questions two days a week.
Neither would I!!!

I've heard that some of the big name professors at the top schools make upwards of half a mil. They are the exception, though.

I just want to teach the law, do significant research, and publish on interesting and important subjects.

At this point, I can't think of a single job I'd rather do. Phone Post
10/5/11 4:37 PM
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419
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"I just want to teach the law, do significant research, and publish on interesting and important subjects."

Have you ever seen the Paper Chase?
10/5/11 5:06 PM
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WikiTheWalrus
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YOU'RE A PIMP, 419! I'M NOT SHARING MY 800 PAGE OUTLINE WITH YOU!!!!
10/5/11 5:08 PM
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Gracie KO'd by Blackuraba
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419, I have not; should I watch the movie, the show, or both?
10/5/11 5:32 PM
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419
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I highly recommend the movie.
10/5/11 5:41 PM
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WikiTheWalrus
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 If you watch the movie you will feel the urge to call everyone a pimp.
10/12/11 6:52 PM
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RickStormsHotSister
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I haven't checked it out yet, but I will!

So, in the last week, I have taken three PT's: 165 (-18), 167 (-12), 166 (-15).

In each one, I had one bad section (1. RC = -13, 2. RC = -9, 3. LR = -11). I have 7 weeks left and it feels like I have a ton of time to prepare.

I feel like a 174+ will guarantee me a 2/3 (100k) scholarship; I just hope I get there!
10/14/11 1:44 AM
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turducken
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do a shitload of timed RC and LR sections...you gotta get those averages up. what is your problem with RC? do you run out of time? is there a specific question type you are having trouble with? i will pray for you that your experimental section is not RC, lol.
10/14/11 6:43 AM
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RickStormsHotSister
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Yeah, I definitely need to do a timed RC section a day. I should also drill LR by type.

With RC, I was trying a notation system that really hampered my comprehension and took up a bunch of time. The moment I abandoned it, I got -2 in RC on the most recent PT.

Haha, my first test had a RC experimental :-/ But I feel a LR experimental is the toughest, 75 questions?!? LG is probably the best because it isn't cognitively taxing.

I hope to right the ship tomorrow and maybe see my first 170... still can't believe I screwed up that last LR :( I could have had like a 175 :-/ Oh well!
10/26/11 11:46 PM
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RickStormsHotSister
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Trying to hang tough. Averaging a 165.5, still having timing issues and guessing on several - each test. Gonna keep pressing until I break into the 170's.
10/26/11 11:53 PM
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turducken
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goodluck dude. if you have any LR questions that you just dont understand, feel free to post them here and i will try to explain them for you
10/27/11 12:03 AM
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RickStormsHotSister
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Thanks man. Hope to turn this around:

Updated PT's:

09/24/11 - PT 63 - LR1: -4. LR2: -4, RC: -8, LG: -4, LRexp: -4, 81/101, 163
09/28/11 - PT 43 - LR1: -5. LR2: -6, RC: -8, LG: -3, LGexp: -7, 79/101, 163
10/01/11 - PT 44 - LR1: -3. LR2: -6, RC: -7, LG: -5, RCexp: -8, 79/100, 161
10/05/11 - PT 45 - LR1: -4, LR2: -1, RC-13, LG: -0, LRexp: -6, 81/099, 165
10/08/11 - PT 46 - LR1: -1, LR2: -2, RC: -9, LG: -0, LRexp: -5,  87/099, 167
10/12/11 - PT 47 - LR1: -2, LR2-11, RC: -2, LG: -0, LRexp: -5,  86/101, 166
10/15/11 - PT 48 - LR1: -6, LR2: -2, RC: -5, LG: -0, LGexp: -4,  88/101, 166
10/19/11 - PT 49 - LR1: -7, LR2: -2, RC: -7, LG: -1, RCexp: -9,  83/100, 164
10/23/11 - PT 50 - LR1: -5, LR2: -3, RC: -7, LG: -4, LRexp: -10, 81/100, 163
10/26/11 - PT 51 - LR1: -4, LR2: -6, RC: -4, LG: -1, LGexp: -3,   85/100, 167


With LR, I can cruise for 15-20 questions and then I'll blow a couple. I don't know what happened, I was doing so well on LR. I'm going to start spending time on questions by type, to make sure that I fully understand what each question is asking me. I've made a bit of progress so I'm grateful, I just need to pour my all into it for the next 5.5 weeks. It's just tough when I have so much on my plate :-/ Oh well!
10/27/11 12:13 AM
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turducken
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do you have the logical reasoning bible?
10/27/11 12:21 AM
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RickStormsHotSister
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I do. I also have the Cambridge LR by type with all of the first 43 tests broken down. With RC, the -2, -5, and -4 are the only ones where I was able to read all 4 passages :-/ Definitely going to work on my timing.

With LR, what do you suggest? I look at the question, look at the stem, prephrase, and then try to find the answer that matches the prephrase. How should I practice and study for it? I have moments of brilliance, but I am way too inconsistent (however, with the last 4-5 tests, I have been guessing on a bunch due to timing).
10/27/11 12:50 AM
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turducken
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Edited: 10/27/11 12:52 AM
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its been a while so i dont really remember my approach exactly, but i definitely did not read the stem or the answers first. and i definitely wrote out quick little diagrams for many of the question types because i found it faster and easier to just write it out and look at the barebones structure without really worrying about what the question is saying.
for example look at this question:
Everyone who is compassionate is kind, and someone who has experienced life’s challenges is invariably compassionate. Jeremy is kind, so he has experienced life’s challenges.

Which one of the following exhibits a pattern of flawed reasoning most similar to that exhibited above?

A) Roberta is a highly productive person. Every person who is motivated is highly productive, and every person who is organized is motivated. Therefore, Roberta is very organized.

(B) Nice people are always sympathetic people, and those who have experienced hardships always end up being nice. Betsy is not a sympathetic person, so Betsy has not experienced hardships.

(C) Almost everyone who loves black and white films is a movie buff, and all movie buffs enjoy popcorn. Sasha does not love black and white films, so Sasha probably does not enjoy popcorn.

(D) Patience requires an even temperament, and being a good parent certainly requires patience. James has no patience, so James is not a good parent.

(E) Successful entrepreneurs are either confident or experienced. Yoshi is a successful entrepreneur, and he is not experienced. Therefore, Yoshi is confident.

id write out the question like this, but in more shorthand form:

compassionate --> kind
exp life challenge --> compassionate
jeremy ---> kind

kind ---> exp life challenges(this is the flaw, the only conclusions you should be able to draw from the question would be: exp life challenges --> kind, or ~kind---> ~exp life challenges)

look at the answer choices:

a)motivated --> highly productive
organized --> motivated
roberta ---> highly productive

highly productive --> organized (there is the same flaw, so this is correct. the only conclusions you should be able to draw are: organized ---> highly productive, or ~highly productive --> ~organized)

and so on...
10/27/11 1:02 AM
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RickStormsHotSister
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Thanks for that. I finally started mapping out parallel reasoning like that and it helps a lot! Phone Post
10/29/11 2:48 PM
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RickStormsHotSister
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Edited: 10/29/11 2:48 PM
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Finally got my 170!

Despite guessing on 2 LR questions, and missing them, I only missed 6 for a 174.

LR1: -4
LR2: -0
LG:   -0
RC:  -2
 
11/11/11 9:10 PM
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OriginalTUFer
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Been missing ~-12 in the last few. I take another one tomorrow morning; I've been reading about LR question types and I hope to return to my old LR form.

LG is solid, RC is 2-4 depending on how well I can focus, and LR is rough because I keep missing some of the first 10 - which should be gimme questions.

Ugh. 
11/17/11 3:24 PM
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OriginalTUFer
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No fellow youngbloods trying to get in?
11/27/11 6:48 PM
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OriginalTUFer
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Ok, the test is on Saturday. I have two PT's left before game day. 

Here are my PT's since I broke 170 (I have 5 170's in my last 7 tests):

10/29/11 - PT 52 - LR1: -4, LR2: -0, RC: -2, LG: -0, RCexp: -6, 93/99, 174
11/02/11 - PT 53 - LR1: -4, LR2: -6, RC: -6, LG: -0, LRexp: -6, 84/100, 166
11/05/11 - PT 54 - LR1: -1, LR2: -5, RC: -5, LG: -1, RCexp: -2, 89/101, 168
11/09/11 - PT 55 - LR1: -5, LR2: -2, RC: -5, LG: -0, LGexp: -0, 88/100, 167
11/12/11 - PT 56 - LR1: -4, LR2: -2, RC: -4, LG: -1, LGexp: -0, 89/100, 170
11/14/11 - PT 57 - LR1: -4, LR2: -1, RC: -4, LG: -1, LRexp: -6, 91/101, 171
11/16/11 - PT 58 - LR1: -2, LR2: -7, RC: -6, LG: -2, LRexp: -5, 84/101, 165
11/19/11 - PT 59 - LR1: -3, LR2: -2, RC: -7, LG: -1, RCexp: -2, 88/101, 170
11/21/11 - PT 60 - LR1: -5, LR2: -4, RC: -6, LG: -3, LGexp: -4, 81/99, 165
11/23/11 - PT 61 - LR1: -4, LR2: -4, RC: -4, LG: -0, LRexp: -4, 89/101, 170
11/26/11 - PT 62 - LR1: -5, LR2: -3, RC: -1, LG: -1, RCexp: -4, 92/102, 173

I think I'll be fine; I just want to work out some kinks, in this last week.
11/28/11 10:31 PM
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Litiguy76
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::on the box:: Reading this thread made me want to barf. I got a 150 on the LSAT, graduated from a tier 3 law school, hung a shingle 8 mos after passing the bar (2nd attempt), and routinely prevail over big law "partners" in complex commercial litigation matters. I am a sole practitioner, have a part-time secretary, work approximately 40 hrs per week, and earn as much as my classmates working at big firms in my area putting in 80+ hours/wk. They went through the stress/anxiety of getting a 170+ on their LSATS, getting into a "T14" school, etc. etc. etc. and you can ask any one of them who now work in major firms in New York City or Boston and every one of them will tell you they are totally miserable and have not seen the inside of a courtroom other than to "observe" despite being a few years past the bar.

If your goal is to make serious money while doing justice for your clients, simply go to any accredited law school and pay attention. Focus on "passing" and learning as much as you can while you're there. When you pass the bar, go to your local courthouse, spend a couple weeks sitting in on the early morning hearings, figure out who the badasses are and offer to work for one of them - for peanuts if necessary. After a year or two, cut loose and start your own practice.

Alternatively, you can spend $40K+/yr Xs 3 yrs on a top 10 school, "big law" it for a few years, and wind up spending the rest of your days wearing a sweater vest while explaining nudum pactum to a bunch of hand-raisers. But is that really your life's goal? :: off the box ::
11/29/11 12:12 AM
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turducken
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you are also the exception, not the rule. i dont mean to sound condescending, but the fact is that most of the students at a third tier toilet are just not as smart as the students at a top 10 school. on the whole, you will be working with and competing against MUCH smarter people at a top ranked school, and this will make you better. not to mention the fact that many of your top 10 peers(and hopefully friends) will move on to high status positions in the real world.

the reality is that the majority of your toileteer classmates are either unemployed, not working in law, or working solo or for some shit firm making $40-60k/yr...they are NOT making $400k+/yr.
11/30/11 6:10 PM
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OriginalTUFer
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turducken is correct.

For every 1 person like you, there 100 students who will never work a legal job. It's downright terrifying out there.
11/30/11 8:34 PM
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419
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What percentage of people who apply to T14 schools land their dream job?
11/30/11 8:59 PM
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OriginalTUFer
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419 - What percentage of people who apply to T14 schools land their dream job?
Dream job? VERY few. Percentage of people who make 160k, the first year out of law school? Probably 30-40% and it was 50-60%, a few years ago. 

At the end of the day, it's a symbol. You're paying a king's ransom for a certain symbol; for some people, they are able to extract a ton of value from it and "change their stars" (going from a BA in liberal arts who couldn't make 40k to a JD who will make 6 figures).

It's all a crap-shoot, especially today. There are a bunch of people at T25 schools who will drop out if they strike out at OCI; they think they have no chance at getting a legal career, so they figure there's no use in throwing away good money after bad.

I'm an aspiring academic and this is important for my graduate education; no matter what happens, I'm going to go to law school. Ideally, I will get a full ride to my school of choice; if not, if I get in but I'd have to borrow 150k - I'll really have to think on it. I feel for the OWS'ers and I am not sure if I want to put my head in that guillotine, no matter how good the odds of me pulling my head out - right before impact.

At the end of the day, though, I do think it would be in my best interest to go to a T6 - if I get in. If I could get over my debt aversion, I'd be in a position where I could hope to get a professorship and I'd have a shot at a high paying legal career - if I am so inclined.

I know that law is fucked right now, but what isn't? I'm just gonna work hard, be smart, and hope for the best. I just know that I need to make a fully informed decision so the future me won't see my current self as a total fool.

419, are you a 3L - now? What are your plans?

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