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10/28/11 12:02 PM
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Juijitsuboxer
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Lets have a discussion about the hierarchy of the Godhead.

Acts 17:29-30

American Standard Version (ASV)
29 Being then the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and device of man. 30 The times of ignorance therefore God overlooked; but now he commandeth men that they should all everywhere repent.




Colossians 2:8-10
American Standard Version (ASV)
8 Take heed lest there shall be any one that maketh spoil of you through his philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ:

9 for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,

10 and in him ye are made full, who is the head of all principality and power:
10/28/11 12:03 PM
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Juijitsuboxer
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John 14:28
English Standard Version (ESV)
28(A) You heard me say to you,(B) 'I am going away, and I will come to you.' If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I(C) am going to the Father, for(D) the Father is greater than I.
10/28/11 12:03 PM
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Juijitsuboxer
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FYI, I am a trinitarian
10/28/11 12:04 PM
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Juijitsuboxer
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1 Corinthians 15:24-28

English Standard Version (ESV)

24Then comes the end, when he delivers(A) the kingdom to God the Father after destroying(B) every rule and every authority and power. 25For he must reign(C) until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be(D) destroyed is death. 27For(E) "God[a] has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "all things are put in subjection," it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28When(F) all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that(G) God may be all in all.
10/28/11 12:07 PM
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Juijitsuboxer
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John 14:16-18
English Standard Version (ESV)
16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another(A) Helper,[a] to be with you forever, 17even(B) the Spirit of truth,(C) whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and(D) will be in you.
10/28/11 12:14 PM
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Juijitsuboxer
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Acts 1:

4And while staying[a] with them(G) he ordered them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, "you heard from me; 5for(H) John baptized with water,(I) but you will be baptized with[b] the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

The Ascension

6So when they had come together, they asked him, "Lord,(J) will you at this time(K) restore the kingdom to Israel?" 7He said to them, (L) "It is not for you to know(M) times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority.
10/28/11 12:23 PM
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Juijitsuboxer
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The
Apostles
Creed

I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son Our Lord,
Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into Hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of God, the Father almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and life everlasting.
Amen.



10/28/11 3:22 PM
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Juijitsuboxer
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Nicene Creed Catholic-Western:

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.
10/28/11 3:24 PM
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Juijitsuboxer
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Orthodox Nicene Creed (Oldest and original)

The Nicene Creed




I believe in one God, Father Almighty, Creator of
heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of
God, begotten of the Father before all ages;

Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten,
not created, of one essence with the Father
through Whom all things were made.

Who for us men and for our salvation
came down from heaven and was incarnate
of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became man.

He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate,
and suffered and was buried;

And He rose on the third day,
according to the Scriptures.

He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father;

And He will come again with glory to judge the living
and dead. His kingdom shall have no end.

And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Creator of life,
Who proceeds from the Father, Who together with the
Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified, Who
spoke through the prophets.

In one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.

I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

I look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the age to come.

Amen.
10/28/11 11:34 PM
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Benedictus
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What exactly do you want to discuss about this topic? Phone Post
10/29/11 12:56 AM
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Ridgeback
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 I fully believe you will die Orthodox my friend.  And having attended a couple of Orthodox funerals, it is a good tradition to die in.
10/30/11 6:26 AM
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Juijitsuboxer
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Me Ridgeback? Who knows, as long as I am closer to God
10/31/11 10:53 AM
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Juijitsuboxer
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Benedictus - What exactly do you want to discuss about this topic? <img src="/images/phone/droid.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>



I would find it interesting to discuss how people view God in Christianity and the mystery of the trinity. There seems to be a hierarchy, but then other verses seem to show it all to be the same.

For instance we hear about the Holy Spirit living within us, but references to the spirit of God or the spirit of Jesus.

Philippians 1:19 - For I know that as you pray for me and the Spirit of Jesus Christ helps me, this will lead to my deliverance.
10/31/11 3:12 PM
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the rooster
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the hierarchy?

Jesus Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. He has all authority and power. He is God manifest in the flesh. Jesus Christ sits on the throne and will judge the living and the dead.

Jesus is the first and the last. Beside Him there is no other god.

:-)
10/31/11 4:38 PM
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Benedictus
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Ok gotcha. I must confess it is a mystery to me. I believe it, but dont quite understand it. In times past, there are several moments where i think i understand it only to read another scripture that makes me rethink.

Some heretics have concluded that God is the same person merely wearing different masks. Sabellians believed something like this, but this teaching was deemed heretical by Orthodox teaching. Phone Post
10/31/11 8:35 PM
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inlikeflynn
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the rooster - the hierarchy?

Jesus Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. He has all authority and power. He is God manifest in the flesh. Jesus Christ sits on the throne and will judge the living and the dead.

Jesus is the first and the last. Beside Him there is no other god.

:-)


Uh oh. Rooster is back and he's feeling extra froggy with his shiny new brown belt.
11/2/11 3:37 PM
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Juijitsuboxer
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the rooster - the hierarchy?

Jesus Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. He has all authority and power. He is God manifest in the flesh. Jesus Christ sits on the throne and will judge the living and the dead.

Jesus is the first and the last. Beside Him there is no other god.

:-)



1 Corinthians 15:24-28

New International Version (NIV)

24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[a] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
11/2/11 3:38 PM
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Juijitsuboxer
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Juijitsuboxer - 
the rooster - the hierarchy?

Jesus Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. He has all authority and power. He is God manifest in the flesh. Jesus Christ sits on the throne and will judge the living and the dead.

Jesus is the first and the last. Beside Him there is no other god.

:-)



1 Corinthians 15:24-28

New International Version (NIV)

24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[a] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.



it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
11/2/11 3:38 PM
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Juijitsuboxer
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Juijitsuboxer - 
Juijitsuboxer - 
the rooster - the hierarchy?

Jesus Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. He has all authority and power. He is God manifest in the flesh. Jesus Christ sits on the throne and will judge the living and the dead.

Jesus is the first and the last. Beside Him there is no other god.

:-)



1 Corinthians 15:24-28

New International Version (NIV)

24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[a] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.



it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.


28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
11/2/11 3:41 PM
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Juijitsuboxer
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Thanks for the commentary Rooster, I was looking for some discussion around the topic and the related verses. I am sure there are lots of other verses to be found that show this hierarchy.

"it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ."

What are your thoughts on these verses?
11/2/11 5:01 PM
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the rooster
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Benedictus - Ok gotcha. I must confess it is a mystery to me. I believe it, but dont quite understand it. In times past, there are several moments where i think i understand it only to read another scripture that makes me rethink.<br><br>Some heretics have concluded that God is the same person merely wearing different masks. Sabellians believed something like this, but this teaching was deemed heretical by Orthodox teaching. <img src="/images/phone/droid.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>



I'm one of those heretics :-)

One God who has revealed Himself as father, son and spirit.

(and of course many other ways...theophanies, nature, etc)
11/2/11 5:02 PM
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the rooster
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inlikeflynn - 
the rooster - the hierarchy?

Jesus Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. He has all authority and power. He is God manifest in the flesh. Jesus Christ sits on the throne and will judge the living and the dead.

Jesus is the first and the last. Beside Him there is no other god.

:-)


Uh oh. Rooster is back and he's feeling extra froggy with his shiny new brown belt.


That's right! ;-)
11/2/11 5:04 PM
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the rooster
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Juijitsuboxer - 
Juijitsuboxer - 
the rooster - the hierarchy?

Jesus Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. He has all authority and power. He is God manifest in the flesh. Jesus Christ sits on the throne and will judge the living and the dead.

Jesus is the first and the last. Beside Him there is no other god.

:-)



1 Corinthians 15:24-28

New International Version (NIV)

24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[a] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.



it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.


Christ is God and God is Christ.

To whit God was in Christ, reconciling the world".
11/2/11 5:08 PM
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the rooster
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Juijitsuboxer - Thanks for the commentary Rooster, I was looking for some discussion around the topic and the related verses. I am sure there are lots of other verses to be found that show this hierarchy.

"it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ."

What are your thoughts on these verses?


I think it violates the co equality model of the trinity.

The ffice of the sonship of God has a beggining and an end. But God Himself who came in flesh is eternal.

Jesus is the expressed image of the invisible God.

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