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Judo/Sambo UnderGround >> Ludwig Paischer's "minimalist" judo...


10/28/11 10:09 PM
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Seong gyeong
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I'm sure this topic has been discussed often in the judo world, but for the sake of having something to post here...

What do you think of his judo? I saw this on another forum:

"To understand what i mean, let me give you a twisted example, watch all ludwig paischer’s matches in Beijing: he’s so into modern judo concepts, that his ONLY technique is sumi-gaeshi, a gaeshi you see? That is a counter attack, a technique ment to defend, not to attack…he wins a lot with a defensive technique: and the funniest thing is?…

…He’s olympic Silver medalist…modern judo lost something important, that only japanese, korean and few other judo schools in the world struggle not to forget…"

I watched quite a few of his matches recently, and it really does seem like that is his only technique. I think he's been falling in the rankings a little lately (down to 18th), but still curious to hear your opinions.

On one hand, his matches are sort of tedious to watch. On the other hand, if I could sumi-gaeshi my way to a silver medal, I'd do it, too.
10/29/11 12:18 AM
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jayflo145
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Trained w/ him a ton while spending months in Austria and doing the camp circuits abroad...

He may only show sumi in comps, but he has a myriad of excellent techniques that he only uses when needed. Not to mention his groundwork is phenomenal.
10/29/11 6:32 AM
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Seong gyeong
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That's interesting to hear. I'd like to see some footage of what his other techniques look like.
10/29/11 9:00 AM
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judoblackbelt
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Paiser's judo at the world class level is mostly drop type throws and turnovers to mat work. Before the new leg grab rule change he could grab the leg in his throw attempts. And fighting in the 60K many of those fighters relied on leg grabs for their throws. So what is left for him to do since initial leg grabs will get you DQ'd? It is his style.
10/29/11 4:46 PM
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karpo
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I suggest you follow his earlier matches. I think the Olympic medal came, when he was actually already declining.

Probably 2004-2006 was his peak. Now he is very old, an usually aging is terrible for under 60 kg guys.
10/31/11 12:54 AM
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Bently
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Seong gyeong - I'm sure this topic has been discussed often in the judo world, but for the sake of having something to post here...

What do you think of his judo? I saw this on another forum:

"To understand what i mean, let me give you a twisted example, watch all ludwig paischer’s matches in Beijing: he’s so into modern judo concepts, that his ONLY technique is sumi-gaeshi, a gaeshi you see? That is a counter attack, a technique ment to defend, not to attack…he wins a lot with a defensive technique: and the funniest thing is?…

…He’s olympic Silver medalist…modern judo lost something important, that only japanese, korean and few other judo schools in the world struggle not to forget…"

I watched quite a few of his matches recently, and it really does seem like that is his only technique. I think he's been falling in the rankings a little lately (down to 18th), but still curious to hear your opinions.

On one hand, his matches are sort of tedious to watch. On the other hand, if I could sumi-gaeshi my way to a silver medal, I'd do it, too.


The person you quote made a mistake. Gaeshi can mean "counter" or "reversal". Sumi Gaeshi as Paischer does it is not a "defenseive" or "counter" technique at all.

Sumi Gaeshi is in no way or form primarily a counter technique.

Other than that, I'm sure Paischer developed a strategy around Sumi Gaeshi because it fit with his abilities at the time (perhaps declining do to age)and the ruleset in use at the time, in other words, a strategic decision.

I see jayflo actually did Judo with him (thanks for sharing!), and confirms his overall judo is excellent/superb, which is as to be expected.
11/1/11 11:54 AM
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yusul
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if not taken out of context i think it's a stupid statement from the judo forum poster for 2 reasons

1)has the poster ever trained with paischer to see how many techniques he knows? paischer had to get his blackbelt somehow, and it couldn't have been through a curriculum with 2 techniques. it's logic.

2)how many techniques are used in competition bye elite competitors anyways? even further in striking arts as well as grappling, how many are used in competition or the street?
12/7/11 6:01 AM
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easyrhino
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people at that level have a huge variety of skills.

however, if they are winning with a certain skillset, they arent going to show the world what else they are capable of.

when naidan from mongolia won gold in 2008, everyone said all he had was the morote gari, because thats all he showed.

come 2009 and the rule changes, and we find out he has a ton of tricks up his sleeve. i believe he will be a contender at the london olympics as well.

paischer has been competing at the top through numerous rule changes and has always found a way to win. you dont do that if you only have 1 throw.
12/7/11 10:52 AM
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judoblackbelt
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Naidan is ranked #14 in 100K and Paischer #18 in 60k for the 2012 Olympics. Naidan will be the most interesting to watch wince most of his offense was negated by the leg grab rule. It will tuff for both to finish in the top 10 in my opinion.

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