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UnderGround Forums >> LEGEND Comparison Anderson/Fedor


7/10/12 1:17 PM
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orcus
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"Because when Arlovski WAS champ the UFC HW division < Pride. Convenient fact to omit."

So when Arlovski was champ, with fewer losses, coming off the biggest win of his career and only impressive performance against a top heavy of his career -- the sub of Tim Sylvia -- he was and should have been ranked lower than years later? He should have risen above those same Pride guys who were all above him when he was champion, by losing twice to Tim and then beating Roy Nelson and Jake O'Brien? Does that make sense to you?
7/10/12 1:21 PM
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dabigchet
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valetudosuperfight - Chael Sonnen was #2 again after beating #6 stann and #8 Bisping.


you realize he was already top 2 or 3 before those fights right? and that he earned that spot by beating not 1, but 2 different #2 ranked fighters in the division, right? and that you are retarded, right?
7/10/12 1:21 PM
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valetudosuperfight
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Orcus. You're wrong. already proved it. Anyone is free to go to page 19 and see it for themselves.

AA already beat fought sylvia, beat him once, got Ko'd the second time, and then fought a nasty UD where Sylvia was concussed and Andrei fucked up his left knee.

Ben Rothwell: 10 fight HW win streak in the IFL, ahd beaten IFL champ Roy Nelson.

Roy Nelson: IFL 5 fight win streak, only guy to KO him was Andrei.

JB: 10-0 at HW and just came off of a victory against Herring.

Werdum: contrary to your shit opinion, that was a good fight. FOTN, no, a good fight with the exception of the 3rd slowing a bit. Blame Werdum for assflopping like he did against AO. Otherwise Werdum was competitive on the feet with AA but AA still knocked him down and still beat him.

Cruz, w/e, if Lesnar can be ranked #1 after his terrible career you cannot possibly hold ONE gimme fight against AA.
7/10/12 1:23 PM
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rockwell
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Ok who was #2 HW at the time Fedor fought AA?

Name please. Phone Post
7/10/12 1:24 PM
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valetudosuperfight
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dabigchet: still waiting for you to man up buddy. You were wrong, simply put. Running around like a tail tucker is just sad.

Orcus is not even making sense anymore.

"AA was #2 but he did not deserve it!" can be typed by anyone. Sylvia lost to Fedor and dropped one to Nog before that; should he have kept his ranking while AA was winning his fights?

You do not have an argument Orcus. "Well others were moving down because they lost."

AND ANDREI WAS MOVING UP BECAUSE HE WON YOU STUPID FUCKUP

I mean, Andrei was winning, that's why he was moving.
7/10/12 1:24 PM
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MrColdCock
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All you clowns saying Arlovski wasn't the #2 guy should have voiced your opinion at the time. I've TTT'd a number of threads showing the UG agreeing with the rankings at the time. People agreed he was the #2 guy and the guy people were demanding Fedor fight. Phone Post
7/10/12 1:34 PM
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orcus
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"Werdum: contrary to your shit opinion, that was a good fight."

lol

As for the rest of your dumb post: Again, can you explain why all the Pride guys were justified in being above Arlovski when he was the reigning UFC champion, coming off by far the best win of his entire career, but why they were NOT then above him years later when he had tacked on a few much lesser wins?



For example, during the time of Arlovski's "hot streak", Nog -- who was ranked higher than Arlovski at the beginning of the streak -- beat Josh Barnett, Heath Herring, and Tim Sylvia. Barnett -- also ranked higher than Arlovski -- beat Yoshida, Monson, Rizzo. Mir beat Lesnar and Nog (and Hardonk), to add to his 30 second submission of Sylvia as far as career wins go. Randy beat Gonzaga and Sylvia.

Just admit that it was the rest of the field's losses and not Arlovski's wins that made him climb. Because his wins were not nearly as impressive as those listed above.

AGAIN: He climbed because he had a 5-fight streak against inferior competition while everyone else fought better opponents and thus picked up a loss to go with their far superior wins.

7/10/12 1:36 PM
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valetudosuperfight
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Werdum: not inferior.

Nelson: not inferior.

Rothwell: not inferior.

JB: not inferior.

Cruz: gimme fight.

What are you derping on about exactly?
7/10/12 1:38 PM
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orcus
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"I mean, Andrei was winning, that's why he was moving."

So then you agree with this:

dabigchet - surely, if a LHW can string together some victories against leites, bonnar, and babalu (hell, he is TOP 20 at #19), he would be consensus #2 LHW in the world.
orcus - He would have to be, at least after Jones beats Dan. Rampage just lost, Bader lost one fight ago, Rashad just lost, Lyoto just lost, Shogun just lost, Phil Davis just lost. Your scenario would be exactly analogous to Arlovski's magical climb up the ranks to #2.


and also do you have an answer for this?:


Who's more likely to have the better streak, a LHW fighting Shogun, Rashad, and Lyoto; or a LHW fighting Leites, Jimmo, and Tito? Do you think the guy going 3-0 taking the latter path should be ranked higher, or is a better fighter, than the guy going 2-1 on the first path?

7/10/12 1:40 PM
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dabigchet
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you are right valetudosuperfight, you really showed me when i called a twenty something ranked fighter "unranked". certainly i had no idea that they were in the top 25, which is really what is important. when people talk about ranked fighters, they are usually talking about thales leites at LHW and ed herman at MW. i concede this 100%.

now then, perhaps you can find another fighter who rose so high in the rankings without a top win? brock certainly was overvalued as well, but he at least beat randy, who was #2. and herring was actually ranked higher than any fighter (except werdum) that aa beat on his way up to #2.
7/10/12 1:45 PM
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valetudosuperfight
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I'm still waiting for this epic admission that you were wrong about AA not fighting ranked opponents. Everything else is tail tucking fuckery I can optionally get at later.

dabigchet at least sort of admitted it.

You did not know they were ranked, hence why you kept saying unranked.

Randy was coming off a year + layoff and was n a legal battle with the UFC over Fedor. Guess what: I provided the example, you didn't like it and want me to provide another.

You're 0-2 now buddy.
7/10/12 1:46 PM
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D241
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dabigchet - by the way: the poll results aren't a good measurement now. you would need to do a different poll. many people could have had the opinion that fedor had the edge before anderson's last victory but have now changed their mind. 

 I just assumed people who changed their mind would login in under their 2nd and/or 3rd accounts  :)
7/10/12 1:50 PM
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D241
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duckhuntgangsta -  props to D241. He sure knows how to start a debate

 Thanks and appreciated...

but you know what I find funny?

At the time of creation of this poll/thread, I assumed Fedor would have a clear edge but I wanted to make a case for Anderson to "make it close". Make it close is exactly what happened. Mission accomplished lol

But yeah, for such a close poll that imo justifies how these two SHOULD be compared, there sure are passionate fans trying hard to prove their point. I've pretty much stopped my long winded replies on the matter. 

Instead, I spent my time disproving someone who I thought was full of shit, ORCUS lol.
7/10/12 1:53 PM
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D241
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orcus - I think he'll lose to Nog, but that won't change the fact that Tim is one of the best heavies in the world.

     


Orcus-  "Then, I read green namers cheering and hollering, and maybe I'm the weirdo for wanting truely competitive fights." With the exception of Crocop vs a can -- which Randleman is not -- it's hard to say which fights will end up being competitive and which won't. In any case, the point of the tournament is to weed out those who can't hang, and hopefully insure that the best are left standing. I guarantee there will be at least a couple surprises as to who advances and who is upset. It also makes sense that top fighters are matched against fighters most think have little chance, at least in the early round(s). Look at how it only takes one loss, in many instances, for people to start saying a fighter has been "exposed" or was "over-rated". If you put Fedor vs Crocop in round one, right off the bat, one of the top guys in the sport is going to be a first-round loser, and that's never going to be good for building a fighter. If you put one of them against a legit up-and-comer, you have the same problem, a fighter who could have been something made to look like a chump in his first really big exposure. 

orcus- Ogawa would crush him. He's almost as good at judo, better at striking, and MUCH larger. 

orcus-  Hence the half-kidding. But the fact remains that Fedor destroyed Goodridge in seconds and Gary just won a spot in the K-1 GP by beating two solid K-1 contenders. Fedor hits harder and has a better chin, and I think his middle kicks are also surprisingly good, having hurt both Fujita and Crocop with them (better than Gary's, though Gary has good low kicks these days). 

orcus - "I disagree with Kharitonov being overrated, maybe he cannot beat Fedor, but he is good." Well, that's really all I meant. He is good, but I never saw anything to make me think he had a shot at beating Fedor, much less more of a shot than Crocop or Nogueira. As for Sergei/Nog, Nog at least matched him standing, took him down several times, passed his guard, got mount, landed some knees from side control, and had a couple sub attempts. It was a clear win for Nog imo. Like krycek pointed out, Nog has only finished two fights with strikes in his career (one over an MMA rookie, one over a greatly out-sized Kikuta), so anyone with good ground skills has a decent chance of making it the distance. Also, Nakamura/Barnett -- pretty much a foregone conclusion. Nak was tough and slippery as usual, but didn't have much of a chance. Barnett looked in great shape for him and his punching looked great. "yes it does" Whatever.
   

orcus - Fedor. Not to say either guy can't win, but I don't really see this as a tough fight to call.


But *objectively*, looking strictly at the scoring criteria (which are intended to make it as quantitative as possible and have as little of "who looked the worst" as can realistically be achieved), you could make a case for it being a very close fight (as I think I did). Which is not to say that I don't think Fedor established beyond all doubt that he is the best fighter in the sport, past or present.
  
7/10/12 1:56 PM
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orcus
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"You did not know they were ranked, hence why you kept saying unranked."

No, I routinely call anyone not top 10 "unranked".

"Randy was coming off a year + layoff and was n a legal battle with the UFC over Fedor. Guess what: I provided the example, you didn't like it and want me to provide another."

Randy's layoff ended right after Arlovski's "hot streak" began, and then he smashed Sylvia and Gonzaga, both of whom were bigger wins -- and better performances -- than anything we saw from Arlovski during that period. His legal battle lasted less than 3 months, and what would that have to do with rankings anyway?

Dbag241 - someone who I thought was full of shit,

Dbag241 - For what it's worth, I agree with you on a majority of your arguments in mma.

Yeah, you TOTALLY thought I was full of shit. Why is it that you have still never told us what EXACTLY happened between sending me that PM in December -- telling me you agree with most of what I say -- and when you began your demented campaign against me in March? What was the thread that made you snap?
7/10/12 1:59 PM
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dabigchet
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valetudosuperfight - I'm still waiting for this epic admission that you were wrong about AA not fighting ranked opponents. Everything else is tail tucking fuckery I can optionally get at later.

dabigchet at least sort of admitted it.

You did not know they were ranked, hence why you kept saying unranked.

Randy was coming off a year + layoff and was n a legal battle with the UFC over Fedor. Guess what: I provided the example, you didn't like it and want me to provide another.

You're 0-2 now buddy.


yes, i looked up the rankings at the point in time of their fights, provided the source for them, but somehow didn't know of the rankings that i looked up. with these logical powers, it is no wonder you reach the conclusion that fedor's legacy is superior.
7/10/12 2:00 PM
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D241
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 Dude, look at your opinions on Fedor. Nobody in the world can completely disagree with you, nor could they completely agree with you.

You obviously state different opinions on the same subject. So yeah, some of what you've said about Fedor I completely agree with, and some stuff is completely bullshit. BOTH come from the same person=ORCUS

lol, you just don't get it man. These are YOUR words, so explain to me with all your various changing Fedor opinions, how would it be humanly possible for me to agree or disagree with everything?

Mindfucked 
7/10/12 2:06 PM
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D241
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orcus - Anyway, for Randy to come out of an 18-month layoff and get in the
ring with Fedor would be retarded. Fedor should fight Barnett while Randy
fights Rothwell or Buentello or something.
July 2008

orcus - "Fedor is great, but he has a glaring weakness: He doesn't fight well off his back." When has he been on his back? Herring reversed him briefly at the end of the first round of their fight, and did no damage; Nogueira took him down but was almost instantly reversed himself. In the RINGS fights, if I'm not mistaken, you aren't allowed to strike on the ground -- seeing how hard Fedor can punch with very little distance, I don't imagine it would be too fun for Coleman getting hit by him even if he's on his back (a la Mirko's punches from his back against Sakuraba and Waterman), and it could certainly set up a reversal or escape.


orcus - Fedor is still #1. He will lose that position depending on when and
whom he fights, and how the UFC division shakes out.
Aug 2007 

7/10/12 2:07 PM
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valetudosuperfight
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I reached the conclusion that you were wrong about them being unranked, which you were. EVerything else is a projection straight from you.

Also nice orcus calling him dbag, how credible you seem in your dipshitted opinions.
7/10/12 2:09 PM
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D241
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valetudosuperfight - 

Also nice orcus calling him dbag, how credible you seem in your dipshitted opinions.

7/10/12 2:17 PM
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D241
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D241 - 
 Perhaps you don't know about Orcus. The longer you are here, you will find out. Orcus is very pro UFC, and even moreso Anti Fedor.

These two guys are fucking LEGENDS. There is no wrong vote. I really hope that nobody tries to discredit either one, instead, just use your opinion about the accomplishments of either one and why you think that is better. It's not like there's a short list of accomplishments to choose from from either fighter.

 
D241 -  Two other credits I'd like to mention.

Fedor beat guys at their strengths majority of his career.

Anderson Silva is the only fighter to win by a fucking spinning elbow, and the first fighter to knock out an opponent via front kick(as well as the first and only fighter to ko Vitor Belfort)

I forgot who it was, but someone texted me "Who won the Silva/Belfort fight", and I replied, "ask someone else, you would never believe me if I told you".   Then, apparently that person asked a random person in the bar he was in, "how did the Anderson Silva Vitor Belfort fight end", and the stranger said, "Anderson knocked him out with his toe"-Lol  

 

This was said by me on the FIRST page. 

If you want to express an edge for one guy over another, you can do that. It shouldn't be hard. Shouldn't we all agree that BOTH of these guys deserve respect and shouldn't be discredited just to credit the other guy? What's wrong with just talking about what made a fighter so great, not what didn't make a fighter so great.

7/10/12 2:18 PM
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orcus
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" Dude, look at your opinions on Fedor. Nobody in the world can completely disagree with you, nor could they completely agree with you."

You're the one who said you agreed with the majority of what I said.

Why are you avoiding the question of what exactly made you go from agreeing with me and trying to be my buddy to deciding to devote literally months on end to reading everything I've ever said on this forum?

And as usual, I don't know what point you're trying to make with those quotes of mine. Out of all those you posted in your last couple posts up there, the only one I don't agree with TODAY is about Fedor's weakness being on his back. Changed my mind about that one.

"how credible you seem in your dipshitted opinions."

As I just attempted to explain to you on the last page, an argument is an argument. Its strength has absolutely zero to do with how "credible" you find the person making it. For example, Fedor is either weak off his back or he isn't, and either position can be defended with examples from specific fights. What in the FUCK does the person making either point have to do with that?

Why is this notion incomprehensible to you idiots?

7/10/12 2:26 PM
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valetudosuperfight
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Flatearther.
7/10/12 4:06 PM
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MuchRespec'
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MrColdCock - All you clowns saying Arlovski wasn't the #2 guy should have voiced your opinion at the time. I've TTT'd a number of threads showing the UG agreeing with the rankings at the time. People agreed he was the #2 guy and the guy people were demanding Fedor fight. <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


LOL dude they were too busy calling for AA to win the fight, he didn't become a chump until after he got laid out. These were the same guys who were saying (back then) that Fedor wasn't in the UFC because he was 'afraid' of Tim Sylvia and AA. After he crushed them both, then he was 'afraid' of the new HWs who weren't even pros during the Pride era.

Agendas are the same, only the names change...
7/10/12 4:51 PM
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ThinkMMA
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MuchRespec' -
MrColdCock - All you clowns saying Arlovski wasn't the #2 guy should have voiced your opinion at the time. I've TTT'd a number of threads showing the UG agreeing with the rankings at the time. People agreed he was the #2 guy and the guy people were demanding Fedor fight. <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


LOL dude they were too busy calling for AA to win the fight, he didn't become a chump until after he got laid out. These were the same guys who were saying (back then) that Fedor wasn't in the UFC because he was 'afraid' of Tim Sylvia and AA. After he crushed them both, then he was 'afraid' of the new HWs who weren't even pros during the Pride era.

Agendas are the same, only the names change...
Rinse, repeat. Phone Post

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