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Judo/Sambo UnderGround >> Judo in MMA?


11/21/11 10:50 AM
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Outkaster
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Why is there not more influence of Judo in MMA. I watched the UFC fights Saturday night and there were so many opportunities for different throws. Apart from the fact there is no GI I would think some techniques would work. I know there are Judoka who have trained MMA but I am surprised there is not more influence? It seems the MMA world is biased towards some martial arts.
11/21/11 10:54 AM
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panic686
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Like every other martial art, I think it will gain more prominence soon. I actually suspect that once thai guys learn that judo is better for takedowns for their style, that y9ou will see more guys with thai and judo backgrounds fighting.
11/21/11 12:55 PM
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BshMstr
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panic686 - Like every other martial art, I think it will gain more prominence soon. I actually suspect that once thai guys learn that judo is better for takedowns for their style, that y9ou will see more guys with thai and judo backgrounds fighting.


agreed. although, i said this years ago, and haven't seen much increase...


i could be worng, but i think the culture of judoka is not as enthralled with MMA like other sports...am i talking out of my ass, or is there some validity here?
11/21/11 5:04 PM
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judoinmotion
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Outkaster - Why is there not more influence of Judo in MMA. I watched the UFC fights Saturday night and there were so many opportunities for different throws. Apart from the fact there is no GI I would think some techniques would work. I know there are Judoka who have trained MMA but I am surprised there is not more influence? It seems the MMA world is biased towards some martial arts.

For some odd reason, judokas (other then the ones we know) are afraid of turning their backs and do a Harai goshi for instance. There are so many opportunities but you don't see they doing it. Maybe because they don't train to capitalize their judo abilities by adapting to MMA. It takes a girl to go and show the guys how's it done in MMA. Go Ronda!
11/21/11 8:57 PM
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cdueck
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 I think as mma gets bigger and bigger we will see less double,single leg takedowns and more from the clinch. This is where judo will come into play with all the options of sweeps and trips that judo teaches. I don't think we will ever see a big increase in the amount of hip throws though.
11/21/11 9:40 PM
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BshMstr
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cdueck -  I think as mma gets bigger and bigger we will see less double,single leg takedowns and more from the clinch. This is where judo will come into play with all the options of sweeps and trips that judo teaches. I don't think we will ever see a big increase in the amount of hip throws though.



really? i figured with the over/under in the clinch, the hip toss is always there... but i have no formal training in judo whatsoever.
11/21/11 10:01 PM
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CaptainTibes
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From 1998, Joel Gerson vs Rumina Sato
O-goshi at 0:18, and that is just for starters!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9LnAZChKhA
11/21/11 11:34 PM
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Missing Glove Tape
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Part of it is cultural and part of it I would argue is ignorance of judo as a combat sport from the perspective of which arts are effective in/for mma(ie: bjj, wrestling, boxing, muay thai).

Culturally, you can break it down to olympic judo being far more prestigious in Asia/Europe than mma, and thus more lucrative in terms of the motivations, or lack thereof, to compete outside of judo. And here in America, for good and bad, judo is more or less confined to a grass roots culture wherein the level of judo taught/practiced really doesn't offer much in terms of adding to the mma repertoire. Meaning, aside from the handful of dojos/clubs around the country, like Hayastan and Pedro/Morris facilities, that are geared towards developing high level athletes, there aren't the resources for judo that there are for other arts, like bjj and wrestling, that have made the transition to mma. It wouldn't be advisable for a UFC-level fighter to spend precious time training judo at the local YMCA under a 60yr old non-athlete coach when he could spend the same time training at mma/bj gym under a 30yr old bjj competitor or former national/international wrestler turned coach, both of whom have a closer affiliation to, and therefore better understanding of, what works for mma.

And considering the cultural obstacles re: judo in mma, there is to one degree or another, the ignorance of judo in terms of the perception of it being a TMA versus a legitimate combat sport the same as wrestling, bjj, sambo, etc, that contributes to people missing out on what it has to offer re: throwing prowess, transitions/scrambling, and positional dominance on the groundn that a handful of fighters like Karo and Rousey have/are showing in mma. And in that regard, with people not knowing what they don't know, there is not really the motivation to pursue judo for mma because people think the 4 main styles already cover all the bases pretty well(and they do), especially when the availability of judo at a comparable level is lacking as much as it is in this country.

That said, it sure would be nice to see fighters making a habit out of hitting big throws, foot sweeps, and slick transitions from takedowns immediately into submissions. But I don't really see it happening anytime soon. At least not until mma develops a larger following in Europe that it starts to attract high level athletes from traditionally strong wrestling/judo nations.





My $.02
11/22/11 8:34 AM
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Outkaster
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Yes but the art is just as legit as the Muay Thai (which by the way is overated but that is another story)
11/22/11 8:48 AM
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Seong gyeong
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i could be worng, but i think the culture of judoka is not as enthralled with MMA like other sports...am i talking out of my ass, or is there some validity here?


Actually, I get the same impression; and even though I'm just a local tournament no-namer, I sometimes temporarily ignore MMA because I like judo more.
11/22/11 4:54 PM
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Spartan79
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^ lol then why would people like gsp, john jones cross train in judo? These are top of their game fighters with great wreserling. Judo adds a differnt form of take down. U see loads of judo being used in mma in Europe.
Transitions from take down to sub are another great thing judo has to offer.
More rondas, hectors will come!
As somone has already said mma just is not every judokas dream! Phone Post
11/22/11 5:33 PM
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JoshuaResnick
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the majority of higher level judokas and wrestlers are less interested in MMA than MMA fans think. Just take a look at the names of great Judokas and Wrestlers in MMA. Very few of them have left their select sport at their peaks. There is something about winning an Olympic and World medal that simply means more to a dedicated athlete. Representing your nation against all odds is something MMA can never duplicate.

When you talk to the former elite guys and ask about their training in Judo or Wrestling, MMA's training is fairly easy. This isnt to say it isnt real or it isnt a tremendously tough sport, even more dangerous to a degree, but the grind just isnt the same. The off time is so much longer, the suspensions after bouts, etc...

MMA isnt every Judokas dream, nor is it every wrestlers! Jordan Burrows has clearly stated that he intends to be a 2x Olympic Champion.
11/23/11 9:03 AM
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panic686
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dave321 - I love judo but it is high risk/ low reward to go for hip throws in mma. You can't just lie on your face and wait for a standup.

Also wrestling is pretty much judo without a gi so why would judo be more effective than wrestling?

Lastly, judo doesn't teach scrambling which is a huge part of mma.



Coming from bjj, wrestling, traditional thai throws, and san shou, I feel like the takedowns I am learning often have unique aspects missing from my other disciplines. There is much more use of upper and lower body in tandem and foot sweeps are so much more emphasized and better executed (exept thai does some good ones too but never focused as much on them as the striking).


I think judo used for the right style, will be more effective than wrestling. There are even some big differences between greco and judo which are awesome to learn.
11/23/11 9:05 AM
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panic686
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"I think judo used for the right style, will be more effective than wrestling. There are even some big differences between greco and judo which are awesome to learn."


At least for my style of fighting/competing I mean.
11/23/11 3:48 PM
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nowaydo
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Unlike Karo and Ronda, many Judokas don't take the time to learn wrestling control ties or have good no-gi judo coaching. Gene Lebell and Gokor.

Many people learn Judo "technique" not internalizing the "science" of judo. Once you understand the science, gi or no gi, it doesn't matter, the science of judo still applies. Learning only judo technique, you are limited to only experessing your judo one way.

The hip throw Kid did he probably learned in wrestling. Most no-gi judo you see in MMA is from wrestlers, using throws they learned in wrestling.

I'm just dumbfounded that Dave C. from AKA hasn't made "judo clinch monsters" out of all of the wrestlers at AKA. If Dave was my coach, I'd been a clinching fool!!

Throws from the "over and under" are low risk. Foot techniques are low risk also. No excuse.

Jon Jones will become even better when he gets more Judo experience. He's been working with a judo coach in NY.
11/23/11 11:29 PM
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Gendai Budo
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Isn't the relative dearth of judo in MMA really a result of lack of training opportunities for most people in United States?

I recognized the potential of judo in MMA sometime ago. The advantages are fairly obvious when you consider that Iowa State University has their wrestling team train cross train in judo. I'm sure other colleges and universities do this as well but when you see the top schools crosstraining wrestlers in judo you damages are fairly obvious I think. This is especially true when you see those teams winning not just wrestling but in judo as well. Phone Post
11/24/11 6:48 AM
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judoblackbelt
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I am not a mma fan but Judo in mma to me is a result of the individual. Look at Ronda Rousey with her wins in MMA all by arm bar. Her judo style fits well in mma. Her strategy is simple. clinch,throw, mount, armbar. Plus she has been on the world stage many times. So if you start with a great athlete with skills you can teach them other components that will make them more effective- others doing judo. MMA offers all styles an equal chance to be successful is what I think is its greatest appeal.
11/24/11 1:46 PM
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nowaydo
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judoblackbelt -  MMA offers all styles an equal chance to be successful is what I think is its greatest appeal.
12/20/11 8:06 PM
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cruedi
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Check out this article it goes into detail about Judo and some of the reasons it hasn't been big in MMA.

http://www.britishsombo.co.uk/European%20Judo%20Is%20Really%20Japanese%20Sambo.pdf
12/21/11 9:46 AM
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panic686
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BshMstr - 
panic686 - Like every other martial art, I think it will gain more prominence soon. I actually suspect that once thai guys learn that judo is better for takedowns for their style, that y9ou will see more guys with thai and judo backgrounds fighting.


agreed. although, i said this years ago, and haven't seen much increase...


i could be worng, but i think the culture of judoka is not as enthralled with MMA like other sports...am i talking out of my ass, or is there some validity here?



I was thinking about this the other day. And I think I agree with the culture. When many judokas start judo, it is just to do judo. It is for the culture of judo. I think you will see more judo in mma once people are crosstraining in judo from other arts.

I plan on fighting again soon. I will definitely be trying to use my judo in combination with my thai for takedowns. I never liked shooting anyways, and I think they blend well. Hopefully a strong judoka can come onto the mma scene with good stiking so that it encourages other mmaers to try out judo. I think seeing someone with well rounded skills using judo will work better than just seeing a pure judoka do well in mma.
12/22/11 2:11 PM
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mmanthebay
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Outkaster - Yes but the art is just as legit as the Muay Thai (which by the way is overated but that is another story)
I agree! Phone Post
12/22/11 2:46 PM
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mmanthebay
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panic686 -
BshMstr - 
panic686 - Like every other martial art, I think it will gain more prominence soon. I actually suspect that once thai guys learn that judo is better for takedowns for their style, that y9ou will see more guys with thai and judo backgrounds fighting.


agreed. although, i said this years ago, and haven't seen much increase...


i could be worng, but i think the culture of judoka is not as enthralled with MMA like other sports...am i talking out of my ass, or is there some validity here?



I was thinking about this the other day. And I think I agree with the culture. When many judokas start judo, it is just to do judo. It is for the culture of judo. I think you will see more judo in mma once people are crosstraining in judo from other arts.

I plan on fighting again soon. I will definitely be trying to use my judo in combination with my thai for takedowns. I never liked shooting anyways, and I think they blend well. Hopefully a strong judoka can come onto the mma scene with good stiking so that it encourages other mmaers to try out judo. I think seeing someone with well rounded skills using judo will work better than just seeing a pure judoka do well in mma.
I believe the Diaz bros. Have trained here and there at Willie Cahill's Dojo Phone Post
12/22/11 2:52 PM
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Fitzsimmons Shift
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Judo is maybe less useful as a base for MMA now than it was previously because leg-grabbing has been taken out and submissions (so I hear) have been de-emphasised. Apart from that, a lot of the grip fighting and gi-dependant throws just aren't applicable in MMA's shirtless environment anyway.

I'm sure it would still be damn helpful for developing balance and whatnot, though, and would maybe be the way to go for British fighters, who don't have much access to good wrestling training but do have ready access to A-level judoka.
12/24/11 10:17 AM
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Salokcin69
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panic686 - Like every other martial art, I think it will gain more prominence soon. I actually suspect that once thai guys learn that judo is better for takedowns for their style, that y9ou will see more guys with thai and judo backgrounds fighting.
How in the fuck am I just now thinking about this???? Phone Post
12/24/11 11:08 AM
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judoblackbelt
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Those judo skills you see in MMA( Hawn,Rousey,Karo)have taken many years to devlope. Especially Hawn and Rousey who have faced "A" level judoka. To get to that skill level takes many years 10-15 and by then you are lucky if your body can still train/compete when your judo career is over. So I don't see many judoka doing MMA after the pounding their bodies have taken from judo. And now must train for MMA for how many years to get good? No one(that I know of or heard about) is doing judo for 3-4 years and competing on the "A" level. It doesn't happen that way in judo. Most off them have been doing judo/wrestling background for 10+ years. When the Pole Nastula tried MMA after his judo career was over he jumped into top MMA competition and got beat (up).

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