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Weapons UnderGround >> Tell me about Yawara sticks


12/5/11 11:23 PM
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HoldYerGround
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These things sound pretty fucking badass. Legal? Check. Portable? Check. Easily accessibly? Check. Non-Lethal? Check.

Why doesn't every person and their housecat have one of these on their keychain and a backup hidden in their colon? Anything I need to know about them?
12/6/11 3:26 PM
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Skpotamus
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Most people are sheeple and don't think about defending themselves or they see the short stick nad think it's a joke. They work quite well, heck, tak kubota (of the kubotan) made his up for police work. I have a bunch I made up for my students out of stainless steel, we practice with them quite a bit and a few of them have used them before in real life and they do work well when you don't have other tools available to you.

Do yourself and your training buddies a favor and go to the dog brothers webstore and order some of the rubber keyfobs for training.
12/7/11 3:43 PM
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HoldYerGround
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Yeah I'm going to order a bunch and give them out to friends for christmas because they are so cheap.

It seems like the perfect fit for someone like me who has a BJJ background.
12/7/11 4:01 PM
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HoldYerGround
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I went to the dog brothers website and alas, no rubber keyfobs...
12/7/11 10:04 PM
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Skpotamus
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That sucks that they quit carrying them

http://www.misdefenseproducts.com/Rubber-Training-Kubotans-p-21424.html Try that one
12/8/11 10:05 PM
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BshMstr
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HoldYerGround - These things sound pretty fucking badass. Legal? Check. Portable? Check. Easily accessibly? Check. Non-Lethal? Check.

Why doesn't every person and their housecat have one of these on their keychain and a backup hidden in their colon? Anything I need to know about them?


i think that most people prolly carry a knife, pepper spray or gun.

i'm assuming (and could be way off base here) that if someone thinks they need a weapon, then they need the leathality it provides. pepper spray obviously doesn't fall into that category, but does add stand off distance..
12/8/11 10:08 PM
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BshMstr
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also, depending on the style, they might fall into the same category as brass knuckles (and therefore beocme illegal)...depends on the jurispiction. as far as i know, yawara sticks are not explicitly illegal in Iowa (nor is the kubotan), but i'll look inot it at work...
12/8/11 11:24 PM
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Skpotamus
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The nice thing about a kubotan or yawara is that it fits on a key chain and gives you an option in your hand if you're going to your car, going into your house etc. The times you're most vulnerable and might not see that attack coming. Are they perfect? hell no, but they're another tool that you can use to defend yourself with if you can't get to that gun, pepper spray or knife.

FWIW, I've never heard of it being illegal anywhere.
12/9/11 1:21 AM
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HoldYerGround
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BshMstr - i think that most people prolly carry a knife, pepper spray or gun.

i'm assuming (and could be way off base here) that if someone thinks they need a weapon, then they need the leathality it provides. pepper spray obviously doesn't fall into that category, but does add stand off distance..


What?! Are you serious?! Do you live in Compton or something? I have met only a select handful of people that carry pepper spray (girls) or a knife (usually some kind of small folding pocket knife that would have to be fiddled with in the middle of a fight, useless) and have NEVER met a civilian who often carried a gun on their person.

My town isn't filled with crack houses or street thugs but that doesn't mean physical altercations are unheard of. That's why I would like some kind of advantage (besides BJJ) for bar or street fight situations. I would also not like to escalate fist fight type scenarios into life or death scenarios involving guns or knives, possibly resulting in the fatality of my opponent where I end up going to jail.
12/9/11 1:24 AM
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HoldYerGround
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Skpotamus - The nice thing about a kubotan or yawara is that it fits on a key chain and gives you an option in your hand if you're going to your car, going into your house etc. The times you're most vulnerable and might not see that attack coming. Are they perfect? hell no, but they're another tool that you can use to defend yourself with if you can't get to that gun, pepper spray or knife.


Yeah exactly! Its ready to use 24/7 and I can bring it virtually anywhere. I can't say the same for the above 3 weapons and with a gun I'm putting my family in MORE danger.
12/9/11 7:58 AM
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BshMstr
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HoldYerGround - 
BshMstr - i think that most people prolly carry a knife, pepper spray or gun.

i'm assuming (and could be way off base here) that if someone thinks they need a weapon, then they need the leathality it provides. pepper spray obviously doesn't fall into that category, but does add stand off distance..


What?! Are you serious?! Do you live in Compton or something? I have met only a select handful of people that carry pepper spray (girls) or a knife (usually some kind of small folding pocket knife that would have to be fiddled with in the middle of a fight, useless) and have NEVER met a civilian who often carried a gun on their person.

My town isn't filled with crack houses or street thugs but that doesn't mean physical altercations are unheard of. That's why I would like some kind of advantage (besides BJJ) for bar or street fight situations. I would also not like to escalate fist fight type scenarios into life or death scenarios involving guns or knives, possibly resulting in the fatality of my opponent where I end up going to jail.


LOL!

no, i live in Iowa....i'm a cop and soldier, so due to my level of training, feel responsible to be armed in case i need to save someone's life. i always have a knife and gun on me. my wife always has pepper spray.

i'm also a pretty big guy (6'1" 260#) and relatively well trained in H2H, so i don't worry about impact weapons.

if i see a crime, unless i need to intervene to save someone's life, i use my cell phone. my job off-duty is to be the best witness i can be. the weapons are if someone's life is in danger...


but again, this is my personal philosophy, based off my training, experience and personal situation....
12/9/11 8:01 AM
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BshMstr
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Skpotamus - The nice thing about a kubotan or yawara is that it fits on a key chain and gives you an option in your hand if you're going to your car, going into your house etc. The times you're most vulnerable and might not see that attack coming. Are they perfect? hell no, but they're another tool that you can use to defend yourself with if you can't get to that gun, pepper spray or knife.

FWIW, I've never heard of it being illegal anywhere.


i don't mean to infe that a yawara or kuboton is illegal in your jurisdiction....just that yawara's sometime have a similar appearance to brass knuckles, which are illegale pretty much everywhere. ASP batons are too, i belive...

i'm just cautioning that people do the research about where they live. i agree with what you said about in being another useful too for self defense..
12/10/11 1:30 PM
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shen
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It's amazing, but in most states all sorts of martial arts weapons are expressly forbade. In some states you can get into more trouble carrying a pair of concealed nunchucks, than a gun.


I had one cop (in CA) tell me if the yawara was metal, it was illegal. But that didn't make a lot of sense to me so I looked up the law and saw that, as usual, there is lots of room for interpretation.


From the penal code:

"(7) As used in this section, "metal knuckles" means any device or
instrument made wholly or partially of metal which is worn for
purposes of offense or defense in or on the hand and which either
protects the wearer's hand while striking a blow or increases the
force of impact from the blow or injury to the individual receiving
the blow. The metal contained in the device may help support the hand
or fist, provide a shield to protect it, or consist of projections
or studs which would contact the individual receiving a blow."


A yawara could fit this description (Held in the hand/ consists of projections which would contact the person receiving a blow)

--But note they only mention metal, not plastic/composite. So I think that's what they cop was getting at.
12/10/11 5:28 PM
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BshMstr
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Shen, thanks for posting that...

here's the Iowa code for Carrying Weapons (where this would apply) and the accompanying definition for a Dangerous Weapon

724.4 CARRYING WEAPONS.
1. Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person who goes armed with a dangerous weapon concealed on or about the person,or who, within the limits of any city, goes armed with a pistol or revolver, or any loaded firearm of any kind, whether concealed or not, or who knowingly carries or transports in a vehicle a pistol or revolver, commits an aggravated misdemeanor.
2. A person who goes armed with a knife concealed on or about the person, if the person uses the knife in the commission of a crime, commits an aggravated misdemeanor.
3. A person who goes armed with a knife concealed on or about the person, if the person does not use the knife in the commission of a crime:
a. If the knife has a blade exceeding eight inches in length, commits an aggravated misdemeanor.
b. If the knife has a blade exceeding five inches but not exceeding eight inches in length, commits a serious misdemeanor.
4. Subsections 1 through 3 do not apply to any of the following:
a. A person who goes armed with a dangerous weapon in the person's own dwelling or place of business, or on land owned or possessed by the person.
b. A peace officer, when the officer's duties require the person to carry such weapons.
c. A member of the armed forces of the United States or of the national guard or person in the service of the United States, when the weapons are carried in connection with the person's duties as such.
d. A correctional officer, when the officer's duties require, serving under the authority of the Iowa department of corrections.
e. A person who for any lawful purpose carries an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other dangerous weapon inside a closed and fastened container or securely wrapped package which is too large to be concealed on the person.
f. A person who for any lawful purpose carries or transports an unloaded pistol or revolver in a vehicle inside a closed and fastened container or securely wrapped package which is too large to be concealed on the person or inside a cargo or luggage compartment where the pistol or revolver will not be readily accessible to any person riding in the vehicle or common carrier.
g. A person while the person is lawfully engaged in target practice on a range designed for that purpose or while actually engaged in lawful hunting.
h. A person who carries a knife used in hunting or fishing, while actually engaged in lawful hunting or fishing.
i. A person who has in the person's possession and who displays to a peace officer on demand a valid permit to carry weapons which has been issued to the person, and whose conduct is within the limits of that permit. A person shall not be convicted of a violation of this section if the person produces at the person's trial a permit to carry weapons which was valid at the time of the alleged offense and which would have brought the person's conduct within this exception if the permit had been produced at the time of
the alleged offense.
j. A law enforcement officer from another state when the officer's duties require the officer to carry the weapon and the officer is in this state for any of the following reasons:
(1) The extradition or other lawful removal of a prisoner from this state.
(2) Pursuit of a suspect in compliance with chapter 806.
(3) Activities in the capacity of a law enforcement officer with the knowledge and consent of the chief of police of the city or the sheriff of the county in which the activities occur or of the commissioner of public safety.
k. A person engaged in the business of transporting prisoners under a contract with the Iowa department of corrections or a county sheriff, a similar agency from another state, or the federal government.


200.21 Dangerous Weapon - Definition. A “dangerous weapon” is any device or instrument designed primarily for use in inflicting death or injury, and when used in its designed manner is capable of inflicting death. It is also any sort of instrument or device actually used in such a way as to indicate the user intended to inflict death or serious injury, and when so used is capable of inflicting death.
12/10/11 5:40 PM
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BshMstr
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HoldYerGround - 
BshMstr - i think that most people prolly carry a knife, pepper spray or gun.

i'm assuming (and could be way off base here) that if someone thinks they need a weapon, then they need the leathality it provides. pepper spray obviously doesn't fall into that category, but does add stand off distance..


What?! Are you serious?! Do you live in Compton or something? I have met only a select handful of people that carry pepper spray (girls) or a knife (usually some kind of small folding pocket knife that would have to be fiddled with in the middle of a fight, useless) and have NEVER met a civilian who often carried a gun on their person.

My town isn't filled with crack houses or street thugs but that doesn't mean physical altercations are unheard of. That's why I would like some kind of advantage (besides BJJ) for bar or street fight situations. I would also not like to escalate fist fight type scenarios into life or death scenarios involving guns or knives, possibly resulting in the fatality of my opponent where I end up going to jail.


i think i mis-typed this, and just caught it....


what i meant to say, was this: i think that most people that carry weapons, prolly carry a gun, knife or pepper spray (or have a bat in the car).... hope that makes more sense.
12/19/11 7:47 PM
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Demitrius Barbito
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 The Demi answer is:

I think they are stupid.

BUT, that's just me running my mouth on the interwebs.




12/21/11 2:30 PM
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e. kaye
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Start using a cane.

12/28/11 1:12 PM
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Stickgrappler
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some thoughts/observations:

i have the kubotan from the dog brothers site, good solid plastic construction. i've not checked recently but perhaps they are sold out as opposed to they stop carrying it in their store?

a few mos ago i was on jury duty. i use the kubotan to hold my keys. thought nothing of it. went to the courthouse and first day i was able to carry it.

2nd day, the officer said, "you know what this is?" and i replied, "it's a keychain." he says, "it's a kubotan and i have to speak to my supervisor." i said, "it was a gift. it's not a keychain?". he turns to his supervisor and says, "he carries it, he must know how to use it." i was given a receipt for it, they held it until i left the courthouse.

while standing on line waiting to get in the courthouse in the AM, the officer at the door, singled out people with canes and let them in first. just an observation about canes. however, if you ever use one for self defense, you may have to prove you needed it for walking and not having it to beat someone upside the head with.

personally i find the keys annoying. i don't use the kubotan to flail my keys, nor would i use it as a pain compliance tool. i would use it as a yawara/pocket stick and strike.

instead of the kubotan/pocket stick, carry some pens. it may break, but there is plausible deniability. it's just a pen. carrying a tactical pen is an option, but it's marketed as a self-defense weapon and if you are caught with one, it may or may not go down well with the LEO's/lawyers.
12/28/11 1:42 PM
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BshMstr
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Stickgrappler - some thoughts/observations:

i have the kubotan from the dog brothers site, good solid plastic construction. i've not checked recently but perhaps they are sold out as opposed to they stop carrying it in their store?

a few mos ago i was on jury duty. i use the kubotan to hold my keys. thought nothing of it. went to the courthouse and first day i was able to carry it.

2nd day, the officer said, "you know what this is?" and i replied, "it's a keychain." he says, "it's a kubotan and i have to speak to my supervisor." i said, "it was a gift. it's not a keychain?". he turns to his supervisor and says, "he carries it, he must know how to use it." i was given a receipt for it, they held it until i left the courthouse.

while standing on line waiting to get in the courthouse in the AM, the officer at the door, singled out people with canes and let them in first. just an observation about canes. however, if you ever use one for self defense, you may have to prove you needed it for walking and not having it to beat someone upside the head with.

personally i find the keys annoying. i don't use the kubotan to flail my keys, nor would i use it as a pain compliance tool. i would use it as a yawara/pocket stick and strike.

instead of the kubotan/pocket stick, carry some pens. it may break, but there is plausible deniability. it's just a pen. carrying a tactical pen is an option, but it's marketed as a self-defense weapon and if you are caught with one, it may or may not go down well with the LEO's/lawyers.


interesting stuff...

it's unfortunate that self defense tools have gotten such a bad rap that people have to find alternate means (improvised tools) or just get a damn gun permit.

i like the pen idea... my wife said when she was in college, she'd had a lit cigarette in one hand and her keys in the other when she went to her car, in case someone jumped her.
12/28/11 2:35 PM
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Stickgrappler
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i neglected to add that i'm in nyc. downside of pens is that it may break depending on what you are hitting, but then again it's a pen. if you go the route of tactical pens, your tac pen in all likelihood is advertised as just that, a tactical pen.

lit cigarette is interesting. another option is to have your cellphone out as if you were talking to someone.
12/28/11 2:57 PM
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Stickgrappler
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oh dayum... how did i not remember to add this...

sturdier than a pen is a mini-flashlight, such as the mini-maglites and surefire (and other vendors). with the mini-flashlights, there is the possible added use of blinding your 'opponent'. total plausible deniability.
12/28/11 3:40 PM
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HoldYerGround
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Why is it so bad to carry weapons for self-defense?
12/28/11 7:56 PM
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Demitrius Barbito
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HoldYerGround - Why is it so bad to carry weapons for self-defense?

Because it can be used against you sighting an "Intention or desire or even excuse to cause violence when de-escalation or avoidence may have served just as well".

Improvisational weapons work just as well.

A small flashlight or even a metal pen...

I'm don'e carrying weapons for the most part tho. That's just me...


12/29/11 9:10 AM
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Stickgrappler
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HYG,

there are a few battles one must contend with... the immediate battle against the BG(s) in which a self-defense weapon such as a kubotan or an handgun or a knife may help.

there is also the legal battle after the confrontation that one must deal with too.




>I'm don'e carrying weapons for the most part tho. That's just me...

Demi, i don't carry weapons, i carry keychains or pens or flashlights.
12/29/11 9:39 AM
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Stickgrappler
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Demi wrote: "Because it can be used against you sighting an "Intention or desire or even excuse to cause violence when de-escalation or avoidence may have served just as well"."


sad part is you know the BG(s) is/are out to cause violence and won't want to de-escalate or avoid. self-defense conundrum.

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