UnderGround Forums
 

JKD UnderGround >> MMA for self defence article


12/21/11 12:10 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
DK Chaos
21 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/26/07
Posts: 121
 
This article is basically a summary of the combat sports versus Martial arts debate, if you've been training for a while you've probably heard it all before but it might be of interest to newcomers....


http://nemesonianmma.blogspot.com/2011/12/mma-self-defence.html
12/21/11 11:52 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
lloydmtz
6 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/12/02
Posts: 76
And to think of all those Martial Artist who have successfully defended themselves before the advent of the term/concept/art of Mixed Martial Arts/Combat Sports came about.

They must be kicking themselves in their Groin Cup for wasting their time on something that isn't suppose to work.
12/22/11 1:39 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
DK Chaos
21 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/26/07
Posts: 122
Its not a waste of time if you enjoyed it. Also, if they 'successfully defended themselves' then it wasn't a waste of time.
The main point is that MMA is a good way of determining which techniques are more likely to work in a real fight.
12/22/11 11:24 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
BostonRedBaron
1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/7/11
Posts: 2
Nice article! its not about whether combat sports is better than martial arts (or vice versa) its about finding a better means of testing techniques.

I'm currently writing a series of articles about testing martial arts. I'm a test engineer and my job is to test hardware/software to see what the limit of the a particular system or part of the system is. There is an entire methodology to how to scientifically test stuff (hardware, software, anything) that most people aren't aware of. If you follow a good test methodology it eliminates the argument of MMA vs. TMA vs whatever, because it simply about what works when properly tested.

I've started a blog to demonstrate how you can apply simple test methodology to martial arts. Trying to get people to rethink what it means to test techniques.

http://www.theredbaron.net/RedBaron/Reds_Blog/Reds_Blog.html
12/22/11 12:20 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
lloydmtz
6 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/12/02
Posts: 77
"The main point is that MMA is a good way of determining which techniques are more likely to work in a real fight."

Define the term REAL FIGHT. The only way your ever going to know if something is going to work in a REAL FIGHT is when your in a REAL FIGHT. But then it only worked in that one instance. It may not work the next time.

I think going to work in a PRISON is a good way of determing which techniques are more likely to work in a real fight.
12/22/11 2:34 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
BostonRedBaron
1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/7/11
Posts: 3
Defining the end goal (Real Fight, bar brawl, bouncing, cage match, Ring Match, BJJ Match etc.) is the start to defining a good means of testing.

"The only way your ever going to know if something is going to work in a REAL FIGHT is when your in a REAL FIGHT. "

This is true even in my line of work in testing equipment. There's only so much testing you can before you just need to dive in head first to get experience. But that experience should give you a better idea of how to better test your skills later to rule out things that may only occur as a fluke.
1/16/12 8:25 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
WidespreadPanic
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/29/06
Posts: 5918
I think some people are looking at it backwards, and failing to see it's:
1. Your method of training;
2. Luck;
3. Level of opponent's threat (aggro/size/intent/moral high ground);
4. Did I say luck? We all know that there is someone out there who can beat our arses;
5. You can't just have a 'collection of tricks'. You have to have a performance based art;
6. You don't want to learn a complicated regime and then go out and say 'gee, let's see if this stuff works';
7. Some practitioners are just 'tough'. They have high natural aggress, high pain tolerance, don't care if their face gets messed up and so on. They'd be good fighters if they studied tap-dancing;
8. Look at which art allows females to beat males and small people to actually win over big tough guys (Marcello) at grappling tournaments. BJJ, Sub-grappling, wrestling and to a lesser degree boxing. All 'alive' arts. Females can contend and can do so reliably and we have our own good buddy on the UG who wins open tourneys;
9. If you have a grappling or wrestling base, and you have good pain tolerance and you make your moves functional, then any 'martial style' physicality can give you an edge;
10. Tough guys in sports like rugby are hard to beat. As a TMA-er, I was most concerned about getting into a scrap with a guy like them, NOT some other MA in town.

$0.02

1/17/12 12:55 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
BshMstr
15 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/13/09
Posts: 751
WidespreadPanic - I think some people are looking at it backwards, and failing to see it's:
1. Your method of training;
2. Luck;
3. Level of opponent's threat (aggro/size/intent/moral high ground);
4. Did I say luck? We all know that there is someone out there who can beat our arses;
5. You can't just have a 'collection of tricks'. You have to have a performance based art;
6. You don't want to learn a complicated regime and then go out and say 'gee, let's see if this stuff works';
7. Some practitioners are just 'tough'. They have high natural aggress, high pain tolerance, don't care if their face gets messed up and so on. They'd be good fighters if they studied tap-dancing;
8. Look at which art allows females to beat males and small people to actually win over big tough guys (Marcello) at grappling tournaments. BJJ, Sub-grappling, wrestling and to a lesser degree boxing. All 'alive' arts. Females can contend and can do so reliably and we have our own good buddy on the UG who wins open tourneys;
9. If you have a grappling or wrestling base, and you have good pain tolerance and you make your moves functional, then any 'martial style' physicality can give you an edge;
10. Tough guys in sports like rugby are hard to beat. As a TMA-er, I was most concerned about getting into a scrap with a guy like them, NOT some other MA in town.

$0.02



WidespreadPanic has got some kickas points here.

i read the article, and quite honestly, not impressed. yeah, MMA will prepare the average Joe in a fight, but it won't necessarily make them good. conditioning, strenght/exposiveness and agressiness is generally the key to a win on the streets...
1/19/12 6:25 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Demitrius Barbito
40 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 2640
Interesting.

I wrote one like it years ago:

http://www.demibarbito.com/mma.html


5/27/12 3:15 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
WidespreadPanic
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/29/06
Posts: 6576
Demitrius Barbito - Interesting.
I wrote one like it years ago:
http://www.demibarbito.com/mma.html
Old thread but I had some comments on your essay which shows a lot of thought:
DB: The martial arts are inherently martial, meaning warlike. There is a tremendous amount of martial technique that deals in lethal force. 
Are you sure? I see guys in MMA banging away and it's rare for anyone to be lethally harmed, even guys who are KO'ed and are punched with a leaping punch (like Bisping). People are a lot tougher than we expect and in some cases a lot more vulnerable. A true expert could bring a conclusion to a physical confrontation with a minimum of effort and damage (which could be legally actionable)
DB: From art to art and from country to country the amount of lethal techniques vary but are ever present. For many the value of any given art has been based upon the number of lethal techniques involved. There are some who do not think an art has merit unless the focus of the art is attacking potentially lethal or highly vulnerable targets on the body. These areas include the head, throat, neck, eyes, groin and ear. 

 

Trying or wanting to attack a highly vulnerable target is one thing. Actually being able to do it versus a strong resisting opponent in a reliable manner is another. You see people throwing haymakers and completely missing.

 

DB: The primary goal of self preservation dictates that these targets be a part of the total package.

I would say this is fallacious. The primary goal of SP is to go home at night (i.e. not be arrested). A grappling or takedown solution ending in an expertly done choke could be the best of all worlds. The opponent is neutralize and unconscious and you can more easily escape.

 
5/28/12 12:29 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
lloydmtz
6 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/12/02
Posts: 89
How do the myriad of "untrained" people who have survived vicious brutal attacks from running away to being stabbed 40 times fit into this equation? Why is everything always equated against a professional fighter? None of the "victims" as far as I can remember were ever attacked by a "Pro" fighter?

Maybe your referring to a "Street Fight" and not the True Violent Criminals who climb through your bedroom window at night or the Nightmare living next door?
5/28/12 7:14 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Demitrius Barbito
40 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 2925
 """Maybe your referring to a "Street Fight" and not the True Violent Criminals who climb through your bedroom window at night or the Nightmare living next door?"""

This!

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.