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Judo/Sambo UnderGround >> Did Eddie Bravo not know Judo had submissions?


12/22/11 2:46 PM
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Fitzsimmons Shift
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From the Joe Rogan podcast:

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/19307317

Eddie Bravo: "How long have you been doing jiu jitsu?"

Ronda Rousey: "I don’t do jiu jitsu, I do judo."

EB: "You don’t do jiu jitsu at all?" ... "Your grappling with submissions, like, how long have you been doing that?"

RR: "Since I was, like, 11?"

EB: "Oh, so you’ve been doing submissions this whole time as you’ve been doing judo as well?"

*

It really seems like Eddie wasn't even aware that judo had armbars and stuff. Pretty crazy; and in a way pretty cool: there's obviously still a lot of scope for cross-pollination in sub-grappling if a guy as knowledgeable as Eddie hasn't seen or worked with any A-level ne-waza specialists.

(Also pretty crazy to hear Rousey say she's had all those surgeries, and arthiritis since she was 19. True what they say about Judo destroying your body!)
12/22/11 8:28 PM
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Seong gyeong
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Thanks for sharing that. Interesting to hear about her experiences.
12/23/11 7:04 AM
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judoblackbelt
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I read the posts on the BJJ forum that have to do with judo and many comments offer no credible insight in judo. Even the ones by the elite BJJers. They talk about judo as though they have competed in elite ("A" level) judo. But give themselves credibility with a post many of them also got a judo BB or did judo. What judo have you did or competed in?

12/23/11 8:32 AM
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Spartan79
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Lol everyone know Eddie is a joker / windup I can't see him really not knowing judo has subs! ;-) Phone Post
12/23/11 7:56 PM
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Chocolate Shatner
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I'd destoy Rousey's body, if given the chance. Or at least, I'd have fun trying.
12/25/11 3:55 PM
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gbutts
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Chocolate Shatner - I'd destoy Rousey's body, if given the chance. Or at least, I'd have fun trying.


YOU HAVE NO CHANCE!
12/25/11 4:09 PM
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gbutts
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Spartan79 - Lol everyone know Eddie is a joker / windup I can't see him really not knowing judo has subs! ;-) <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


I don't think he was joking. Six months ago my daughters and students submitted a couple of his people in a no-gi grappling tournament. He was suprised that judo people had submissions and good guard attacks. He asked me if they cross-trained in bjj and when I told him that we were judo players that have good groundwork and that we do all forms of grappling, he insisted that they had been doing bjj for years.
12/25/11 4:16 PM
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gbutts
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Fitzsimmons Shift - From the Joe Rogan podcast:

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/19307317

Eddie Bravo: "How long have you been doing jiu jitsu?"

Ronda Rousey: "I don’t do jiu jitsu, I do judo."

EB: "You don’t do jiu jitsu at all?" ... "Your grappling with submissions, like, how long have you been doing that?"

RR: "Since I was, like, 11?"

EB: "Oh, so you’ve been doing submissions this whole time as you’ve been doing judo as well?"

*

It really seems like Eddie wasn't even aware that judo had armbars and stuff. Pretty crazy; and in a way pretty cool: there's obviously still a lot of scope for cross-pollination in sub-grappling if a guy as knowledgeable as Eddie hasn't seen or worked with any A-level ne-waza specialists.

(Also pretty crazy to hear Rousey say she's had all those surgeries, and arthiritis since she was 19. True what they say about Judo destroying your body!)



I was so mad at ronda for not telling eddie that she has great submissions from the guard and bottom position , it is crazy that people speak of judo as if we don't understand submission that other grappling arts do.
12/25/11 7:16 PM
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Chocolate Shatner
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gbutts - 
Chocolate Shatner - I'd destoy Rousey's body, if given the chance. Or at least, I'd have fun trying.


YOU HAVE NO CHANCE!



Yeah, but a fella can wish, can't he?
12/25/11 7:40 PM
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gbutts
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Chocolate Shatner - 
gbutts - 
Chocolate Shatner - I'd destoy Rousey's body, if given the chance. Or at least, I'd have fun trying.


YOU HAVE NO CHANCE!



Yeah, but a fella can wish, can't he?



I guess it's really hard for me to think that she a women and not a little girl , but fair warning she will have a gun.lol.
12/25/11 8:06 PM
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judoblackbelt
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And a bit bull, right gary?
12/25/11 8:36 PM
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gbutts
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judoblackbelt - And a bit bull, right gary?[/quot

I always tell my girls, ronda, and any of my female students that they are not allow date until they are 30 and married. Btw, I always carry a gun and I have plenty trunk of space.
12/25/11 8:37 PM
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gbutts
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judoblackbelt - And a bit bull, right gary?[/quote

I always tell my girls, ronda, and any of my female students that they are not allow date until they are 30 and married. Btw, I always carry a gun and I have plenty trunk of space.
12/26/11 5:49 AM
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Spartan79
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Reposted this in bjj thread interesting that it seems Eddie really had no clue judo has subs lol! Ronda will open up a lot of eyes to judo. BJJ blinkers need to come off now it's boring lol Phone Post
12/26/11 6:12 AM
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JrRapozo
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No way Eddie is that stupid he seems like a smart guy.
12/26/11 8:21 AM
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Chocolate Shatner
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gbutts - 
Chocolate Shatner - 
gbutts - 
Chocolate Shatner - I'd destoy Rousey's body, if given the chance. Or at least, I'd have fun trying.


YOU HAVE NO CHANCE!



Yeah, but a fella can wish, can't he?



I guess it's really hard for me to think that she a women and not a little girl , but fair warning she will have a gun.lol.



I got two guns. I call em Righty and Lefty...... LOL.
12/26/11 11:39 AM
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Spartan79
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Alright having the guns as long as you got the ammo lol Phone Post
12/26/11 12:03 PM
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SamboMMA
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gbutts - 
Spartan79 - Lol everyone know Eddie is a joker / windup I can't see him really not knowing judo has subs! ;-) <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


I don't think he was joking. Six months ago my daughters and students submitted a couple of his people in a no-gi grappling tournament. He was suprised that judo people had submissions and good guard attacks. He asked me if they cross-trained in bjj and when I told him that we were judo players that have good groundwork and that we do all forms of grappling, he insisted that they had been doing bjj for years.


Its sad how close minded BJJ people have become. After knocking TMAs for years about cultish BJJ clubs seem to have developed into one as well.
1/8/12 6:57 PM
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Horus2001
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SamboMMA - 
gbutts - 
Spartan79 - Lol everyone know Eddie is a joker / windup I can't see him really not knowing judo has subs! ;-) <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


I don't think he was joking. Six months ago my daughters and students submitted a couple of his people in a no-gi grappling tournament. He was suprised that judo people had submissions and good guard attacks. He asked me if they cross-trained in bjj and when I told him that we were judo players that have good groundwork and that we do all forms of grappling, he insisted that they had been doing bjj for years.


Its sad how close minded BJJ people have become. After knocking TMAs for years about cultish BJJ clubs seem to have developed into one as well.



(preface: i have a black belt in bjj but did train judo at the same time) i have observed that there is a bit of a cult of personality with bjj. if you look how it started with a pseudo-undefeated hero who was 400-0 and a family with the ability to turn defeat into a victory for them (helio's loss was a victory for gjj). even when they lose, they have an excuse such as didn't understand the rules (rickson's loss in sombo)

add selective video tapes with a recreational judo club with the creme de la creme of the gracie family as well as beating various clueless boxers, tkd and karate guys and selling the video tapes as proof of superiority of their system.

i remember reading stories of how torrence and rorion were selective in who and what they taught. after more brazilians showed up and were not holding back teaching, they then claimed the whole pure water schitck.

if you check the bjj forum, there is still discussion on the whole helio linage vs. other linage that continues to pop up from time to time.

most American bjj guys don't even know there are other lines of bjj that aren't even related to the gracies such as the Fadda line. most Americans aren't even aware that the brazilians respect and often cross train in judo and just prefer to bash judo.

this isn't to say that there aren't american bjj guys who aren't open minded about judo, sombo and wresting. it is just there are not enough of us.

i guess the kool-aid must taste good.


1/9/12 9:49 AM
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panic686
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gbutts - 
Spartan79 - Lol everyone know Eddie is a joker / windup I can't see him really not knowing judo has subs! ;-) <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


I don't think he was joking. Six months ago my daughters and students submitted a couple of his people in a no-gi grappling tournament. He was suprised that judo people had submissions and good guard attacks. He asked me if they cross-trained in bjj and when I told him that we were judo players that have good groundwork and that we do all forms of grappling, he insisted that they had been doing bjj for years.



This craxks me up that Eddie insisted no on submissions in judo when one of the favored bjj stories is about how Kimura and Helio fought and then the kimura was named because of that fight.
1/9/12 2:47 PM
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SamboMMA
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Horus2001 - 
SamboMMA - 
gbutts - 
Spartan79 - Lol everyone know Eddie is a joker / windup I can't see him really not knowing judo has subs! ;-) <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


I don't think he was joking. Six months ago my daughters and students submitted a couple of his people in a no-gi grappling tournament. He was suprised that judo people had submissions and good guard attacks. He asked me if they cross-trained in bjj and when I told him that we were judo players that have good groundwork and that we do all forms of grappling, he insisted that they had been doing bjj for years.


Its sad how close minded BJJ people have become. After knocking TMAs for years about cultish BJJ clubs seem to have developed into one as well.



(preface: i have a black belt in bjj but did train judo at the same time) i have observed that there is a bit of a cult of personality with bjj. if you look how it started with a pseudo-undefeated hero who was 400-0 and a family with the ability to turn defeat into a victory for them (helio's loss was a victory for gjj). even when they lose, they have an excuse such as didn't understand the rules (rickson's loss in sombo)

add selective video tapes with a recreational judo club with the creme de la creme of the gracie family as well as beating various clueless boxers, tkd and karate guys and selling the video tapes as proof of superiority of their system.

i remember reading stories of how torrence and rorion were selective in who and what they taught. after more brazilians showed up and were not holding back teaching, they then claimed the whole pure water schitck.

if you check the bjj forum, there is still discussion on the whole helio linage vs. other linage that continues to pop up from time to time.

most American bjj guys don't even know there are other lines of bjj that aren't even related to the gracies such as the Fadda line. most Americans aren't even aware that the brazilians respect and often cross train in judo and just prefer to bash judo.

this isn't to say that there aren't american bjj guys who aren't open minded about judo, sombo and wresting. it is just there are not enough of us.

i guess the kool-aid must taste good.




Thanks. Good post. This is why I consider the first UFCs to be nothing more than an infomercial to Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. It didn't become an actual sport until after Royce left since Rorion was handpicking who got in.

Its sad BJJ has developed into this Cult of Personality that they often bash TMAs for. I started with BJJ and started in Judo when I moved here to Ireland. I love Judo even though it does trash your body worse than BJJ. I'm lucky to be in a Judo club that also focuses on newaza.
1/9/12 11:35 PM
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nowaydo
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Rickson said his favorite Martial Art (Besides GJJ) was Judo.

Look at old Helio videos. He had the upright posture of a Judoka.

All of the old school BJJ guys were also Judo blackbelts.
1/9/12 11:39 PM
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nowaydo
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^
1/10/12 3:27 AM
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Ham and Egger
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Hes speaking tongue in cheek.
1/10/12 11:11 PM
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Horus2001
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i finally watched that video. the self-defense stuff looked like traditional jiu-jitsu, the stand up looked like crappy randori, the groundwork looked like really rudimentary ne-waza.

i think that bjj needs that mythos, otherwise they have to accept that it is an offshoot of judo, of how helio revolutionized grappling by 'changing leverage points' is just hyperbole.


i would love to understand how the old school bjj guys could explain the difference between their bjj and judo. judging from the video, i didn't see much that was impressive or particularly different.

i know it sounds like i am bashing bjj, i am not. bjj is a fine sport, i just believe that a lot of what the brazilians sold the americans was just bull$hit for marketing. i believe at the end of the day, helio and rorion started to believe their own stories of the uber art.



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