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Judo/Sambo UnderGround >> Did Eddie Bravo not know Judo had submissions?


1/11/12 7:29 AM
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FOX Force Five
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The Brits sold the USA London Bridge.

Brasil sold them BJJ.
4/9/12 1:47 PM
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nijuro
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Edited: 04/09/12 1:48 PM
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I'm a black belt in bjj (Renzo/Alan Teo/Jamal Patterson) and I've studied some judo and I think the coin has two sides here. While some of you are quick to decry bjj guys denegrating or overgeneralizing about judo, you are doing the same thing with bjj. Many of the top bjj guys are very open about their respect for Judo; guys like Saulo, Xande, Leozinho, Jacare, Roger, etc. In my own academy, we have tremendous respect for judo, and cross-train with "A"-level guys (btw, Travis Stevens is an absolute BEAST in every area!)

In fact, I've been in this game for about 12 years and while the whole arogant, "my art is invincible" attitude was around in the beginning of bjj in the US, I haven't seen it for a long time. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I think the majority of bjjers respect judo and it's somewhat disingenuous to use a select sample group to make a generalizing point.
4/9/12 3:58 PM
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judoblackbelt
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nijuro- The only group I "select" from are the posts on the BJJ forum. Reading them I can tell they know very little about top ranked world class judo players or judo period. I am glad to hear you worked out with Travis (ranked #7 in 81K for the upcoming Olympics). What most bJJers don't understand is the rigor you go thru to get world judo ranking. Competing in tournaments all over the world and facing the best judokas from other countries. I hope to see your comments on the BJJ forum when your fellow BJJers make disparaging comments on judo.
4/10/12 6:23 PM
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judomf
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most Americans don't know that bjj is not that popular in Brazil.
4/11/12 11:05 AM
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nijuro
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judoblackbelt: First off, it was awesome working out with Travis...his grips are superhuman and he is incredibly humble and gracious.

I am happy to call out ignorance wherever/whenever I see it. I mostly lurk, but I really don't see many high level bjj guys disparaging judo...when it does happen, it's typically a white/blue belt who spends more time posting than training. I posted in this thread because it is more concerning to me when high-level judo players express these sentiments than when low-level bjj players do. I know this thread was created in response to Eddie Bravo's comments, but really, after smoking that much dope, how high can your expectations be? I would say his comments are more the exception than the rule.

That said, I'm not a consistant lurker and if I've off base on this, I'll have to pay closer attention to the BJJ forum and respond there when appropriate.

5/22/12 9:09 PM
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kcbjj
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What Horus said. I'm also a black belt in BJJ and I love Judo too (and wrestling, MT, boxing, etc.). Phone Post
5/23/12 8:42 AM
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UNIFIEDTEAM1
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BJJ is VERY popular in Brasil. There were literally academies on almost every block as I went through the city of Rio. It was amazing. Ricardo De La Riva's main school sat exactly like 1 side street from a Roberto Traven school. I would literally walk out onto the street and look up & there they would be training on like the 3rd or 4th floor.

Misinformation is on both sides. Judo has the best stand up there is in the gi, but BJJ produces far superior ground work on average since that is literally 95% of all the classes. There are transitions and reversals that don't exist in Judo found in BJJ because Judo doesn't allow you to work on the ground in a technical way. It's fall and rush to grab something. Using tons more force d/t the time constraints. These things are just the way it is.

No 1 art is perfect. Which is why the smart people look to cross-train and see what's on the other side of the fence. There is only more to learn and add to yourself. there isn't a negativeto this.
5/26/12 5:09 PM
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judom
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Edited: 05/26/12 5:12 PM
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UNIFIEDTEAM11,

1. "..Judo doesn't allow you to work on the ground in a technical way. It's fall and rush to grab something.."

I have to strongly disagree with this. There are loads of Judo guys who are awesome on the ground. Many don't compete seriously or used to compete and retired.


2. "..There are transitions and reversals that don't exist in Judo found in BJJ.."

Possibly, but there are things in Judo not found in BJJ. In my experience, the training I received in Judo on chokes, pins and arm-bars technically surpasses what is shown in BJJ, both in-person and on DVDs.

I think one of the problems is that people equate Judo training with USA Judo training, and they shouldn't.

Also, don't equate competitive Judo with what happens in training. Many of the Olympic level guys spend 80% of their time doing standing. But huge % of them, after they retire fairly young, develop awesome ground games, cause due to injuries they can't do much standing.

I actually think BJJ is a great hobby for retired Judo guys. I even considered it myself, but then in Europe, there is just so much good Judo that to do anything else feels like a sin :)

5/26/12 5:18 PM
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judom
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I guess what is troubling is not that Eddie Bravo does not know Judo has no submissions...but more that the general population in USA is so clueless about Judo.

As an outsider, it seems USA Judo needs some serious reforms.
5/28/12 9:31 PM
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HULC
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I knew Judo had submissions when i was a little child who had never been anywhere near a MA gym. How does someone reach the top of the BJJ tree (or near enough to start putting out teaching materials) without knowing even the most rudimentary thing about the founding art of BJJ??
6/5/12 7:13 AM
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dudefromisrael
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 Here in Israel BJJ guys have tons of respect for Judo guys and vice versa.

Here, BJJ is where old Judokas go to die (in a manner of speaking. A lot of guys, once the national team shows them the door, quit Judo and go do BJJ).
6/5/12 8:57 AM
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FOX Force Five
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In fairness, we have no idea how stoned Eddie was when he made that comment!
6/5/12 2:32 PM
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Spartan79
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^^^ lol , but very true! Phone Post
6/5/12 3:59 PM
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Outkaster
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Except for a couple guys the BBJ guys will not come to a Judo class at my Dojo. They treat it as such a separate entity.
6/5/12 5:19 PM
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FOX Force Five
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Around 2000, the Gracies were running a school downstairs at the Budokwai (London). I think it was Ray Stevens (Silver Medal in Barcelona) who helped Roger Gracie with his tachiwaza.

When Roger and his friends went upstairs they would wear white belts. When the Judo guys went downstairs they would do the same.

Serious players from both codes enjoying and learning form the other side.

6/6/12 8:26 AM
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Outkaster
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They changed belts? Wow

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