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Judo/Sambo UnderGround >> JUDO IS YOUR BASE FOR OTHER MARTIAL ARTS


12/25/11 3:50 PM
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gbutts
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I told my students and that I don't believe any of will ever able to be Olympic medalist and they use their judo base to become champions in other sports(mma, bjj and wrestling. I'm not trying to crush anyone's dream but this is just reality. SHOULD WE TELL OUR STUDENTS KEEP THEIR JUDO BASE BUT FOCUS THEIR EFFORTS ON OTHER GRAPPLING ARTS. I ALWAYS TELL MY STUDENTS TO WRESTLE BECAUSE USA WRESTLING WILL REWARD YOU FOR HARD WORK UNLIKE JUDO. I don't agree with 75% of what Ann Marie writes but I think she nail it with this blog:

Three times in the last week I have received an email or a link to an article asking me to give money to a player whose "dream" was to "win an Olympic gold medal". There is only one problem here. Each one of those people has exactly zero chance of winning an Olympic gold medal. If this post causes you to call me a mean, hard-hearted old lady, save your breath. Gary Butts calls me that every time he talks to me and I've known him for 11 years and it hasn't had a bit of an impact. Let me refer you to a wikipedia article on Olympic qualification for judo. While you're there, give them some money.
Qualification for Judo at the 2012 Summer Olympics will be based on the world ranking list prepared by the IJF on 1 May 2012. The top 22 men or 12 women from the world rankings in each division qualify, subject to a limit of 1 judoka per NOC per division. Further continental quotas (Europe 25, Africa 24, Pan-America 21, Asia 20 and Oceania 10 across both sexes and all divisions) also qualify subject to an overall limit of 1 per NOC.
(Interestingly, this other article by Burton and Fallon, who presumably know better than wikipedia, say it is 22 men and 14 women.) Let me clarify this. Each division will have the top 22 men in the world qualify, but only one per country. Let's say you are #99. You don't qualify. If two of the top 22 in your weight are from France and two are from Japan then the selection moves down and picks #23 and #24. You still don't qualify. The article by Burton and Fallon goes on further to state:
This list is used to add 25 more entrants from Europe, 24 from Africa, 21 from Pan-America, 20 from Asia and 10 from Oceania. However, in this phase, only one athlete per country can qualify across all weight categories and both genders. To take Europe as an example, where 50 countries could feasibly qualify an athlete, 25 different countries will end up filling those 25 continental places. This ensures a large number of countries get the chance to take part in the Games. In addition to this, there is a maximum of two athletes per continent, per category at this stage. (For example, Africa can only send a maximum of two athletes to the women's -48kg event using this method, regardless of which countries they come from.) There are 20 further invitational places on offer, which will be confirmed between May and July 2012.
In other words, if you are an American/ Canadian/ Mexican or any other Panamerican NOT in the top 22 men you have exactly ONE spot for your country that can be given to you or any of the other 13 weight divisions. You better be the number one non-qualified person out there. If you are ranked number 99, you are not that person. Even after that, you could conceivably get one of those 20 "invitational" places based on God knows what. While the means of determining those invitations is undefined, as far as I know, you had better believe the competition is going to be fierce to get them and I don't even want to think of the political trading, in-fighting and back-biting that will ensue. If it was me, I would NOT want one of those invitational spots.

It's like the old joke about the two guys who went hunting in a forest known to have grizzly bears. One hunter asked the other wasn't he afraid that he wouldn't be able to outrun a bear. The other replied,
I don't need to be able to outrun a bear. I just need to be able to outrun you.
If you are not in the top 22 in the world and not the top-rated in your country across all weights and both genders, then your chance of going to the Olympics is limited to one of the 20 invitational spots. I think it extraordinarily unlikely that more than one of those is going to a single country, although stranger things have happened. To this point, I'm questioning the probability of these people even GETTING to the Olympics. Now, let's say you manage to somehow obtain one of those invitational spots. Let's overlook the fact that your odds of doing that are only slightly better than me winning the 2010 Olympics in luge, which, need I point out, are already over and I did not win.

If you have not managed to crack the top 22 (really more likely the top 24 or 25 since some countries inevitably have more than one in the ranking) over a four-year qualification period, by what miracle are you suddenly going to become best on the planet on a day when ALL of the best players are expected to show up and bring their A-game? What would I suggest that you do, other than quit trying to raise money? Take an honest look at your life. When I retired from competition, I was very, very fortunate that I had the man of my dreams waiting to marry me and a good-paying job from which I was on leave. I also had a very definite idea of what I had been giving up the past decade and what I wanted to move on to - having more children, raising a family, moving up in my career. Think about what else do you want to do? WHY are you number 99 or 47 in the world anyway? Did you not train enough, did you not train in the right places, were you injured? WHY do you want to go to the Olympics anyway? I won the world championships then I went back to work, got married and had more children. When the first opportunity for women to compete in the Olympics came up, I took a pass on it and have never one day in my life regretted that decision. A few weeks ago, my niece asked me if I thought a person with a masters degree from a state university would make as much money as a person with a bachelors degree from an Ivy league school. I told her, other things being equal ,no. A lot more people have masters from state schools than bachelors degrees from the Ivies. She said,
Thank you for crushing my dream.
I told her,
I didn't crush your dream. Reality did. Find a different dream
12/25/11 8:19 PM
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judoblackbelt
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I wouldn't put it that way, but tell students to be the best they can be. I would tell them if they are a good player and want to be better they need to travel, compete, do seminars and see how there skills measure up. In their junior careers they will face good competition from other countries and the US. So why not let them see how they measure up and if they want to put in the time and sacrifice in this solo sport. I would never discourage them in any way. Wrestling is a good complement since they can get a scholarship with it. And I know many of our juniors are doing wrestling in addition to judo. THe life experiences from judo travel/competition will be invaluable in their futures. Judo/wrestling or wrestling/judo are good complements for eachother and sould help them in their future pursuits.
12/25/11 8:49 PM
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gbutts
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judoblackbelt - I wouldn't put it that way, but tell students to be the best they can be. I would tell them if they are a good player and want to be better they need to travel, compete, do seminars and see how there skills measure up. In their junior careers they will face good competition from other countries and the US. So why not let them see how they measure up and if they want to put in the time and sacrifice in this solo sport. I would never discourage them in any way. Wrestling is a good complement since they can get a scholarship with it. And I know many of our juniors are doing wrestling in addition to judo. THe life experiences from judo travel/competition will be invaluable in their futures. Judo/wrestling or wrestling/judo are good complements for eachother and sould help them in their future pursuits.



I know alot of juniors that could go on to be world class judo players but the US funding system and ijf ranking makes it almost impossible. I like the old system better.
12/26/11 6:13 AM
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judoblackbelt
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Funding is always an issue. We support our junions and so does the State organization and USJF to some degree. But there is never enough money with all required travel. No different than any other travel kids sport that requires big bucks from the parents. There arn't enough judo "bodies" in the US to develop your maximum potential so you have to travel to get that competition/training to take you to the next level. We currently have a very good junior kid (16 yrs old) but what are his parents going to do move their whole family and parents change jobs so their kid can advance in judo? So instead he is wrestling for his HS.
12/26/11 9:58 AM
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Chocolate Shatner
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While I agree that Ann Marie is a grumpy old broad from everything gbutts posts on here, I do think she has a point, but is still wrong.

Is she correct in that the system to get into the Olympics has odds just slightly better than me winning the MegaPowerBall Lottery without buying a ticket? Yes.

On the other hand, this is true for EVERY worthwhile endeavor in the world. How many kids say they want to grow up and be President? How many say that they wanted to be astronauts? How many said they wanted to be World Champion? Yet, we still have the Obamas, the Armstrongs, the Alis.

The odds of becoming a professional basketball or football player are in the range of 1 in half a million. Yet, we encourage kids to try their best in these sports.

Let's even look outside the realm of sports, since sports is, and may always be, a pursuit that has few "fallback" options if you fail. Let's talk even about owning an starting your own business, something that is often encouraged by parents, politicians, etc. If the odds I've read are correct, starting your own business has a success rate of about 1 in 10 lasting more than 2 years, and 1 in 100 lasting more than 10. Of that, to become "rich", you're looking at odds more like 1 in 1000.

The fact is, anything worthwhile done on this planet takes someone willing to look the odds in the face, whip out their peters (or punnannies) and piss on the odds.

Sorry, but I'd rather we have a generation that lives by Roosevelt's creedo than what Ann Marie espouses in this blog post.
12/26/11 12:53 PM
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yusul
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''I'm a dreamer. I have to dream and reach for the stars. And if I miss a star, then I grab a handful of clouds.''

-mike tyson.
12/26/11 8:31 PM
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Seong gyeong
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Chocolate Shatner - While I agree that Ann Marie is a grumpy old broad from everything gbutts posts on here, I do think she has a point, but is still wrong.


I never even knew who she was prior to this forum, and I'm convinced she's somewhat of a troll.

12/27/11 8:55 PM
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Chocolate Shatner
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Looking at her competitive history, I cannot say she's a troll. However, she is a woman who has passed up many opportunities for various reasons. Whether it be having children, studies, etc, she did pass up multiple World Championships. Do I fault her for this? Not at all. For some people, their maximizing life dream is not to hold a World Championship. However, in her blog posts she does come off as slightly bitter, grumpy, and regretful on some things. She does seem to take many opportunities to tear down other people's dreams and goals, while dogmatically sticking to her own. I do hope she's different in person.
12/28/11 12:46 AM
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gbutts
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Chocolate Shatner - Looking at her competitive history, I cannot say she's a troll. However, she is a woman who has passed up many opportunities for various reasons. Whether it be having children, studies, etc, she did pass up multiple World Championships. Do I fault her for this? Not at all. For some people, their maximizing life dream is not to hold a World Championship. However, in her blog posts she does come off as slightly bitter, grumpy, and regretful on some things. She does seem to take many opportunities to tear down other people's dreams and goals, while dogmatically sticking to her own. I do hope she's different in person.


She actually a very nice person that helps alot of people, gives her up time to train young judo players for free and gives alot of momey to charities. She does think judo is the only grappling that counts but since ronda (her daughter) as been doing alot of other grappling arts she is slowly cominng around.
12/28/11 1:49 AM
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Chocolate Shatner
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gbutts, glad to hear it. I guess I will have to put Ann Marie in the same basket with some of the older judoka I have met here in Japan. Ironically, this older generation (younger ones tend to drop out, or I just don't know them that well) would seem to be the ones to best exemplify the ideas of budo/Bruce Lee/a Book of Five Rings, yet they don't.

To quote Musashi (from the Ground Book):

"You should not have a favourite weapon. To become over-familiar with one weapon is as much a fault as not knowing it sufficiently well. You should not copy others, but use weapons which you can handle properly. It is bad for commanders and troops to have likes and dislikes. These are things you must learn thoroughly. "

later, he says :

"Become aquainted with every art.
Know the Ways of all professions. "

Now, Ann Marie and others remember one of the other maxims Musashi states, namely "The Way is in Training," but they forget many others. As well, Bruce Lee in his Tao of Jeet Kune Do also espouses forgetting dogma, and opening your horizons.

I do support her daughter's career, and hope she is successful. However, I also hope that dogmatic thinking like Ann Marie's dies out from the judo world.

12/28/11 10:14 AM
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panic686
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yusul - ''I'm a dreamer. I have to dream and reach for the stars. And if I miss a star, then I grab a handful of clouds.''

-mike tyson.



Love this. This is a great fucking quote.
12/28/11 10:35 AM
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Seong gyeong
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Chocolate Shatner - Looking at her competitive history, I cannot say she's a troll. However, she is a woman who has passed up many opportunities for various reasons. Whether it be having children, studies, etc, she did pass up multiple World Championships. Do I fault her for this? Not at all. For some people, their maximizing life dream is not to hold a World Championship. However, in her blog posts she does come off as slightly bitter, grumpy, and regretful on some things. She does seem to take many opportunities to tear down other people's dreams and goals, while dogmatically sticking to her own. I do hope she's different in person.


I agree with what you said. Yes, competitively, she is legit. You can find her videos on judovision.org. (Incidentally, she felt compelled to address a negative comment from that site in her blog. She likes to rip on others, but gets touchy if somebody does it to her?)

It's just her tone that comes across as annoying. So I'm thinking she's trying to get more blog hits by saying the stuff she does. Hence, somewhat of a troll.

You nailed it on the tearing down others' dreams. She already has a world championship. She can feel good about that. But for some reason it's wrong for a young American to dream about an Olympic medal. Even if the odds are against American judoka, should every one just give up and say "fuck it"?

Dr. Ann Maria: not only is she a world champion with 4 degrees and a million dollars in contracts, she's also an extraordinary motivational speaker.

1/11/12 3:22 AM
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Koga
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"I told my students and that I don't believe any of will ever able to be Olympic medalist and they use their judo base to become champions in other sports(mma, bjj and wrestling."

Good advice - I'm sure you have trained several students who will use their "judo base" to become Olympic medalists in wrestling, bjj mundial champions and UFC title holders.

Seriously, it is one thing to bemone a lack of funding or certain rule changes but everything you write about judo gbutts is with such distain that I wonder why you don't just do something else like freesyle Amercian submission grappling.
1/11/12 6:15 AM
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gbutts
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Koga - "I told my students and that I don't believe any of will ever able to be Olympic medalist and they use their judo base to become champions in other sports(mma, bjj and wrestling."

Good advice - I'm sure you have trained several students who will use their "judo base" to become Olympic medalists in wrestling, bjj mundial champions and UFC title holders.

Seriously, it is one thing to bemone a lack of funding or certain rule changes but everything you write about judo gbutts is with such distain that I wonder why you don't just do something else like freesyle Amercian submission grappling.


Lol. I doubt if you read everything I have written about judo because if you did you would not had made your little "distain" remark. Btw, I have trained judo players that have use their judo base to become great college and freestyle wrestlers , as a matter of fact one player is a 2x junior world freestle wrestling champion and head for the Olympics. Where were you when I was hauling young Ronda rousey to dojos across the los angeles area or taking falls and being her matwork practice dummy? Did you teach the Garcia's the judo that help them win the bjj worlds? No I did! Did you teach my students that are junior national and senior national judo medalist? No I did!

I have been around US judo long enough to know that any chance of an American making the olypmic is bleak because of funding and training requirements. I rather my students get a scholarship to college or make a living in mma using their judo base . I think you are confusing my comments about competition structor and judo politics for art of judo. So you are wrong and maybe before you make a judgement about someone you should actual do some research. Oh yeah I love submission grappling and all other forms of grappling!

1/11/12 6:29 AM
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gbutts
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Koga - "I told my students and that I don't believe any of will ever able to be Olympic medalist and they use their judo base to become champions in other sports(mma, bjj and wrestling."

Good advice - I'm sure you have trained several students who will use their "judo base" to become Olympic medalists in wrestling, bjj mundial champions and UFC title holders.

Seriously, it is one thing to bemone a lack of funding or certain rule changes but everything you write about judo gbutts is with such distain that I wonder why you don't just do something else like freesyle Amercian submission grappling.



I forgot next time you quote someone make sure do not leave out the rest of their statement. And who have ever trained at accomplish anything in any grappling sport or what have you ever accomplish in any grappling sport and please don't tell me you have BB in this or that because so does everyone else.

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