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OtherGround Forums >> .999 Silver = Best long term investment


12/26/12 9:29 PM
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SgtJustinTeplitz
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Brandable - 
williepep - 
SgtJustinTeplitz - 
Utah get me two - Okay, I've been watching for a while, and although last year I depleted most of my savings moving from Mexico to the U.S. and getting married, I'm back into saving mode. Beginning in January, I plan on buying around $200-300 (BALLER ALERT?) in silver each month, for as long as it remains below $35/oz.

Can somebody give me a quick "how-to" for online purchasing that won't result in rape-rape on shipping or overpricing? Recommended sellers or coinage?

Thanks.

THat is a lot of silver a month!

Please take my advice...

Buy ONLY

American Silver Eagles

or

Canadian Maple Leafs

999 SILVER. These coins will cost $3-4 over spot (the price of Silver on kitco.com). You can buy them at dealers or on eBay.

You have a good plan!

Do you like these because they are more liquid so to speak ?

Easy for people to recognize/trust when selling ?


Just curious.



Yes, plus there's a small gain of numismatic value each year.


Thank you Brandable. Brandable is 100% correct. People look at American Silver Eagles and trust them. They don't require any drilling or suspicions.

as for the next few months, silver might go down a lot, then go back up to 2012 highs (and eventually take off). Not too sure what to think of the Comex story...
12/26/12 11:06 PM
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yabadaba
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Roland Bates - Failure on Comex silver coming?

http://goldswitzerland.com/a-failure-on-comex-silver-alasdair-macleod/

"There are so many systemic dangers now but I think the story I’m going to alight on is one I wrote about recently about gold and silver on the COMEX. The bank participation report came out on the 4th of December, and I was able to complete the figures for this year. Bank shorts are at or near record levels. And what is interesting is that with the prices of gold and silver well below the all-time highs there are no profit-takers in the market to sell contracts to close their shorts. And in silver it is very, very alarming. This leads me to think that we are quite likely to have a failure on COMEX and in the silver market in particular.

If you have a failure in silver on COMEX then that is going to affect the gold futures market as well. The West’s central and commercial banks have suppressed the price of both gold and silver by supplying central-bank gold and increased short positions, making prices far too cheap. The result has been a massive transfer of gold and silver to Asia. This is the relevance of the point that you have been raising about Central Banks gold holdings, and it is also going to bring into question the solvency of the bullion banks who are short.

So, I think that while it may not be obvious to many people at the moment, when we look back at the fourth quarter we will see that the conditions were in place for a huge bear squeeze, for silver in particular. I would assume that the short position in gold is more controllable so long as Western Central Banks continue to make bullion available to the bullion banks that are short either on COMEX or with LBMA. But silver is different, nobody has it for sale. There is no silver around."



From the same website:

Storage: GoldSwitzerland safely stores any type of precious metal for clients including coins and will assist with transport from anywhere in the world.
Terms:: Allocated and Segregated.
Purchasing: When buying Gold Bullion for clients the Gold will invariably remain in storage as unleveraged savings deposit. The type of bars we buy for clients are the most commonly traded bullion bars...

I haven't look too far into this but to me it seems like a marketing scheme (i.e. try to convince customers that there is a shortage of whatever it is you're trying to sell them - gold/silver in this case).

From the description of the article the banks are in a horrible postion - caught in short positions on an investment that's going to go up in price (i.e. if you're short silver and the price of silver goes up you lose).

For anyone who buys into this stuff is there any explanation for why the banks were so stupid? Note that just saying "the game is rigged" or other similar pablum doesn't constitute an explanation.

12/26/12 11:14 PM
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SirPrize
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For you guys buying silver online - are you afraid of leaving a paper trail? Are you afraid of the government confiscating your gold and silver? Phone Post
12/27/12 12:24 AM
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SgtJustinTeplitz
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SirPrize -  For you guys buying silver online - are you afraid of leaving a paper trail? Are you afraid of the government confiscating your gold and silver? Phone Post

Good question SirPrize!

No and No.

People can buy silver on eBay and then sell it at a coin show or coin shop. Who is to say that they didn't lose money off of the deal? It would be hard to prove if the person who bought silver made money, lost money, kept the silver, or got rid of it all.

Safe Deposit Boxes--- you MUST get insurance on your items in order for the items to be safe in the event of lost information (ie an employee losing your information and raiding your box). That is a way the government can track what you have, whether it be precious metals, diamonds, et cetera.

The government has not bought back gold since the Depression era. I don't forsee them doing it again, even if there's another Depression (which there will be in due time unfortunately).

I think like anything else, most people buy silver and eventually sell it when things occur (having kids, getting married, mortgage problems, et cetera).

You bring up a good question. Many people made lots of money off gold and silver. Did they report it to H and R Block in April of the next year? I did when I made money. I have very little silver left (unfortunately). I firmly believe that it will go up a lot in due time. You could be an undercover cop Sir Prize, lol. But really, paper trails for "I worked at job A and made 2 million dollars this year (Wesley Snipes for example)" Well that's what paper trails are for. The IRS is right for taxing the uber-rich to support the rest of us...the uber rich should pay their fair share. I highly doubt that the government worries about guys who make $8/hour on a mixed martial arts forum and buy 3 silver American Eagles off eBay every couple of months to see if it went up $3/ounce. Paper trails are mainly for rich guys who don't pay their fair share of taxes, not deadbeats like us on mma.tv who buy a $35 silver coin when we can afford it. Just my 2 cents. Now yes, big time gold buyers who purchase $1 million every month off kitco.com should be worried about paper trails for good reason. Even those who buy one gold ounce a month... but most of us are small time, making a little and losing a little here and there. Movies and entertainment are crap in this country. For every 1 Kim Kardashian, there are 500,000 deadbeats (like me) on mma.tv who dream big. I have read each person's post on here and feel that none of us are millionaires and really make a killing in this world. I could be wrong though! When you have very little or nothing like me (and like others on here), we don't have to worry about paper trails or government confiscations or anything like that. I work hard for what little I have and it seems like everyone else on this thread is the same way too.

Good post again Sir Prize!
12/27/12 5:15 PM
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anonymousone
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Thinking about adding $2000 or so to my stack soon.

Cant decide between 60-65oz of Silver Maples

or

1 Gold buffalo and like 10oz silver.

Most of my stack right now is silver.

Also, the best pricing that I have found is goldmart . selection is limited, but better prices than Provident usually always. Better than gainesville for the most part, but i cross shop to make sure, then check LCS to see if they just happen to be cheaper and have the inventory

And if you are buying large amounts, nothing beats tulving (that i have seen)
12/27/12 7:01 PM
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williepep
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anonymousone - Thinking about adding $2000 or so to my stack soon.

Cant decide between 60-65oz of Silver Maples

or

1 Gold buffalo and like 10oz silver.

Most of my stack right now is silver.

Also, the best pricing that I have found is goldmart . selection is limited, but better prices than Provident usually always. Better than gainesville for the most part, but i cross shop to make sure, then check LCS to see if they just happen to be cheaper and have the inventory

And if you are buying large amounts, nothing beats tulving (that i have seen)

Thanks will check out some of these sources.


And I am thinking about adding gold, torn between what type.
12/27/12 7:03 PM
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williepep
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^^^ Must say so far I am happy with Provident Metals.
12/27/12 7:40 PM
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Roland Bates
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yabadaba - 
Roland Bates - Failure on Comex silver coming?

http://goldswitzerland.com/a-failure-on-comex-silver-alasdair-macleod/

"There are so many systemic dangers now but I think the story I’m going to alight on is one I wrote about recently about gold and silver on the COMEX. The bank participation report came out on the 4th of December, and I was able to complete the figures for this year. Bank shorts are at or near record levels. And what is interesting is that with the prices of gold and silver well below the all-time highs there are no profit-takers in the market to sell contracts to close their shorts. And in silver it is very, very alarming. This leads me to think that we are quite likely to have a failure on COMEX and in the silver market in particular.

If you have a failure in silver on COMEX then that is going to affect the gold futures market as well. The West’s central and commercial banks have suppressed the price of both gold and silver by supplying central-bank gold and increased short positions, making prices far too cheap. The result has been a massive transfer of gold and silver to Asia. This is the relevance of the point that you have been raising about Central Banks gold holdings, and it is also going to bring into question the solvency of the bullion banks who are short.

So, I think that while it may not be obvious to many people at the moment, when we look back at the fourth quarter we will see that the conditions were in place for a huge bear squeeze, for silver in particular. I would assume that the short position in gold is more controllable so long as Western Central Banks continue to make bullion available to the bullion banks that are short either on COMEX or with LBMA. But silver is different, nobody has it for sale. There is no silver around."



From the same website:

Storage: GoldSwitzerland safely stores any type of precious metal for clients including coins and will assist with transport from anywhere in the world.
Terms:: Allocated and Segregated.
Purchasing: When buying Gold Bullion for clients the Gold will invariably remain in storage as unleveraged savings deposit. The type of bars we buy for clients are the most commonly traded bullion bars...

I haven't look too far into this but to me it seems like a marketing scheme (i.e. try to convince customers that there is a shortage of whatever it is you're trying to sell them - gold/silver in this case).

From the description of the article the banks are in a horrible postion - caught in short positions on an investment that's going to go up in price (i.e. if you're short silver and the price of silver goes up you lose).

For anyone who buys into this stuff is there any explanation for why the banks were so stupid? Note that just saying "the game is rigged" or other similar pablum doesn't constitute an explanation.


Paging Bear Stearns circa 2008. . . paging Lehman Brothers circa 2008. . . paging Citicorp circa 2008. Lol.

One of the more specific conspiracy theories is that JPM acquired its short silver position as part of the Bear Stearns acquisition.

Be that as it may, I understand and concur that one should not automatically accept accusations of market manipulation and my bullishness on silver is based on my perception of long term supply/demand fundamentals.

To the extent that belief in futures market manipulation becomes common (and it does not just appear in the one source I cited), it will be bullish for the physical market, which is why I thought it worth posting.
12/27/12 9:08 PM
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yabadaba
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^ I don't see how Bear Stearns, etc. sheds any light here. Are you just saying that banks can be stupid and/or get themselves into horrible positions or is there more to your comment? 

If JPM acquired a large short position in silver in 2008 they've had plenty of time to unwind it. 

Note that I'm not arguing against buying physical gold/silver - I'm just curious to see if anyone can provide an explanation for the alleged behaviour of the banks (other than they did it because they are stupid).

12/31/12 3:10 AM
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williepep
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Anyone think we may see a dip if the markets tank over the next couple of days ?



1/1/13 4:09 AM
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Utah get me two
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I'm seeking additional advice, please. In the past few days, as the price of silver has dropped, I've seen American Eagle coins advertised at lower rates than the kitco.com price, including shipping, on sites like ebay and CL. I'm not going to deal with CL under any circumstances.

Regarding the AE coin, have they always been .999 silver? I'm looking, in particular, at a 1987 coin, 1oz, @ $26.00 including shipping. This is a full $6.30 off the kitco pricing. I am ready to start making purchases, and in the high 20's (price-wise) I'm going to be all over it.
1/1/13 12:57 PM
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qcddog03
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Utah get me two - I'm seeking additional advice, please. In the past few days, as the price of silver has dropped, I've seen American Eagle coins advertised at lower rates than the kitco.com price, including shipping, on sites like ebay and CL. I'm not going to deal with CL under any circumstances.

Regarding the AE coin, have they always been .999 silver? I'm looking, in particular, at a 1987 coin, 1oz, @ $26.00 including shipping. This is a full $6.30 off the kitco pricing. I am ready to start making purchases, and in the high 20's (price-wise) I'm going to be all over it.
yes they are all .999 where are you getting them for that price? Phone Post
1/2/13 8:39 PM
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Roland Bates
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AGood start to 2013. Some might say AUspicious.

Get it. . .get it?







(chemical symbols AG and AU). :)

1/2/13 8:58 PM
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Bean Bag
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Pay in cash at a local dealer who has ungradable/junk silver coins or Silver Eagles.  There will be no paper trail.  

1/2/13 9:54 PM
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SirPrize
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^ I know people who have done that in the past. The problem with that, though, is I've seen shops charge sales tax unless you live out of state. To verify you live out of state, you have to give an address. I don't know if the shops will check ID or just go on the "honor system", or what they will do with records of your address, or how long they will keep the sales info.
1/2/13 10:53 PM
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Tommy Gunnz
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i got some silver as a gift, would now be a good time to sell to make cash? Phone Post
1/3/13 12:17 AM
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SgtJustinTeplitz
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^^^ Are you willing to hold onto your silver for a while to double your money???
1/3/13 7:56 AM
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EasyTapper
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SirPrize - ^ I know people who have done that in the past. The problem with that, though, is I've seen shops charge sales tax unless you live out of state. To verify you live out of state, you have to give an address. I don't know if the shops will check ID or just go on the "honor system", or what they will do with records of your address, or how long they will keep the sales info.

Obviously all states are different, but if you buy something here, you pay sales tax. Doesn't matter where you're from. The internet is the only exception.
1/3/13 7:57 AM
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EasyTapper
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Tommy Gunnz -  i got some silver as a gift, would now be a good time to sell to make cash? Phone Post

No, silver's down. I'd hold onto it for a while (unless you want to sell to me, then now is an ideal time to sell)
1/3/13 8:05 AM
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Akston
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Guns and ammo, can be used to take other people's silver, food, or anything else Phone Post
1/3/13 8:06 AM
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The Wizzle
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relevant
1/3/13 12:27 PM
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EasyTapper
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warmasheen - For you guys recommending buying only Eagles and Maples I will say this.

I've bought and sold silver for a while and can say that 100% of the time I have NOT gotten my premium back when selling the Eagles and Maples. I bought the with like a $4 premium and when I go to sell them everyone says "nope, silver is silver".

I say by the cheapest .999 you can find that is a recognizable brand. APMEX, Monarch, whatever. YOu're only going to get spot out of it. This could mean the difference of quite a bit of money when dealing with very small margins.

Also, don't pay tax or shipping, that kills your margin. Buy off private dealer on craigslist or a local shop.

I've said this many times in this thread. Buy wholesale (craigslist,etc.) and sell "retail" (ie Ebay.) Unless you're dealing with a shop, you should come close to getting your premium back.

Here's one that sold for around $41 (includes shipping)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2011-One-Dollar-Brilliant-Uncirculated-BU-Silver-Eagle-1oz-999-Silver-Coin-/121040572188?pt=Bullion_US&hash=item1c2e948f1c

Here's an auction for 3 Maples that are going to go for over $37 ea.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-2013-1-Ounce-Each-Canadian-Silver-Maple-Leaf-Coins-GEM-BU-Quality-9999-Silver-/230907102082?pt=Bullion_US&hash=item35c322c382

And right now spot is 30.85. You can get your premiums back if you know what you're doing and willing to spend the time to do it.
1/3/13 3:24 PM
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SirPrize
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EasyTapper - 
SirPrize - ^ I know people who have done that in the past. The problem with that, though, is I've seen shops charge sales tax unless you live out of state. To verify you live out of state, you have to give an address. I don't know if the shops will check ID or just go on the "honor system", or what they will do with records of your address, or how long they will keep the sales info.

Obviously all states are different, but if you buy something here, you pay sales tax. Doesn't matter where you're from. The internet is the only exception.

The problem with tax is that it kills your profits. A 7% sales tax on $30 silver means it has to go to $32.10 just to break even. In the long run, it may not matter, though, not if/when it's over $50.
1/3/13 5:56 PM
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Family Jules
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Great thread.

Got about $10k cash laying around looking to turn it over into precious metals.

1) how much should I buy to start off?
2) would you recommend buying gold as well?
3) if so, how much gold/silver ratio should I aim for?
4) any other tips for someone starting off?

Any advice is welcome. Phone Post
1/3/13 6:12 PM
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Greenup
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I'm in the same boat as you ^^ I'm just gonna buy as much as possible without leaving a paper trail each month. Going gold first maybe some silver later. Phone Post

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