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OtherGround Forums >> .999 Silver = Best long term investment


12/29/11 1:53 PM
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BetJits
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If you Google silver town they are a reputable mint and right now they have free shipping on junk silver and their one ounce through ten ounce bars. The mark up isn't bad and you're not paying tax so it evens out. I started out with junk and went to rounds and government mints. The rounds I used to trade for gold. I have a few bars too. Junk silver is nice if you are near a coin shop because you can say pick up a minimum of a quarter or half dollar a week and go from there. The guy I buy from sells junk at spot, rounds ( including maples and my favourite libertatds) a dollar over, and ase for just 2 over spot. I haven't heard of any other place this cheap. He buys back at almost spot too. Phone Post
12/29/11 2:10 PM
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AG_bull
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SirPrize - 
MoreThanUFC - Yes, buying online is safe, but you need to be buying at least 150 oz at a time to take delivery. Learn the Nucleo Exchange on BullionDirect.com. They will hold your silver until you get to a level that makes sense to pay the S&H.

And stay the fuck away from rounds!

Junk silver is fine as long as the coins are really beaten up. Have you checked coinflation.com, SirPrize?



Why should you stay away from rounds?

(I bought a few, but mostly I have junk silver, because I think you get more silver for your money that way.)

Yes, Coinflation.com is a great site.


one big advantage of 1oz government coins is how known/recognizable they are. If you ever need to sell/barter people will just take them with very little worry of counter fitting risk. With generic rounds it might be harder when you go to find a buyer as the market will be smaller.

No-named brand cola is always cheaper than Coke or Pepsi because less demand for it.

Silver is silver but there are two sides to the transaction, today you might be in BUY mode but one day you will be in SELL mode.

That being said i have picked up some generic rounds along the way. I also bought some from NWT mint:
http://bullion.nwtmint.com/silver_stagecoach.php

I bought these because they are divisible so i can split 1oz into four 0.25oz pieces. More of a novelty than anything else. Generic rounds make up less than 5% of my stack.
12/29/11 2:57 PM
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RX_Bandit5
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sub'd Phone Post
12/29/11 4:00 PM
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MoreThanUFC
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SirPrize - 
MoreThanUFC - Yes, buying online is safe, but you need to be buying at least 150 oz at a time to take delivery. Learn the Nucleo Exchange on BullionDirect.com. They will hold your silver until you get to a level that makes sense to pay the S&H.

And stay the fuck away from rounds!

Junk silver is fine as long as the coins are really beaten up. Have you checked coinflation.com, SirPrize?



Why should you stay away from rounds?

(I bought a few, but mostly I have junk silver, because I think you get more silver for your money that way.)

Yes, Coinflation.com is a great site.

I meant to say "As long as the coins ARENT really beaten up"


Rounds are marked up. Look at the price of a 1 oz bar, and a 1 oz round. See the difference? That markup used to exist because rounds are hard to counterfeit and nearly impossible to shave. But modern minting techniques have made bars just as hard to fraud. There is no numismatic value in rounds AT ALL, so why pay that mark-up?

12/29/11 4:51 PM
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BetJits
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rorce greasy - lol @ waiting 25+ years to cash in on your investment.

Think of it as an emergency stash... If you never need it then in the future buy yourself something Phone Post
12/30/11 11:48 AM
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SirPrize
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AG_bull - I also agree that buy in orders of 100oz+ so the shipping price doesn't kill your bottom line.


1) Are you concerned about leaving a paper trail when you buy online?

2) Do you have to pay tax when you buy online?

3) Is it common to pay tax when you buy from a local dealer / coin shop? (My local dealer charges tax, unless he mails it to you. Of course, doing that, or giving my address, would leave a paper trail.)
12/30/11 12:41 PM
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Authority Figure
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BetJits - 
rorce greasy - lol @ waiting 25+ years to cash in on your investment.

Think of it as an emergency stash... If you never need it then in the future buy yourself something


There's nothing wrong with recommending someone hold on to an investment for 25 years.

It's not called emergency stash. It's called retirement. lol
12/30/11 2:24 PM
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AG_bull
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SirPrize - 
AG_bull - I also agree that buy in orders of 100oz+ so the shipping price doesn't kill your bottom line.


1) Are you concerned about leaving a paper trail when you buy online?


I buy some online best prices usually you will get a better deal with less effort, some from craigslist (etc), some from local dealers or when i travel for business (pay cash). Capital gains taxes should be paid (at least partially) on items bought online IF/when you sell. Dont go messing with the tax man ... on items that were paid cash and there isnt a trail then its the same as selling an old TV ... should be declared but no way for government to know.

I dont think the government will ever come to your house to reposes/nationalize your gold/silver ...this would be too costly to implement. But in a SHTF scenario where silver becomes 4digits ($1000/oz +) they might impose something crazy like a 90% capital gains tax to "penalize the evil people that invested in silver and caused the financial collapse".



2) Do you have to pay tax when you buy online?


Most 99.99% gold/silver products are tax exempt, Online i dont think you have to pay, you can make an account with one of the online dealers and walk through the process to see what the final cost would be. I dont pay sales tax where i live when i buy online, im pretty sure no one does but test it out to find out for sure (depending on where you live).


3) Is it common to pay tax when you buy from a local dealer / coin shop? (My local dealer charges tax, unless he mails it to you. Of course, doing that, or giving my address, would leave a paper trail.)



I know NewYork state makes you pay sales tax on purchase under $1000 ... this was when i went into a physical store to buy some silver they charged me like 8%-10% or something ... i was only buying one coin so didnt really care. Other dealers will just charge you a price usually based off spot.

You might want to try online (Craigslist), but be warned that its usually full of flakes, expect people not to show, to try and rip you off, try to meet up in a secure neutral location. I personally felt the security risk of dealing with these type of people wasn't worth the marginal savings.

But If you are going to go this route I suggest you buy a mini scale (less than $10 off ebay) and a set of digital calipers (also around $10 online). You can find the dimensions of the coin online and using the tools confirm the density is correct. They even sell tools for measuring coins online but i believe they are unique to one type, a scale + calipers works just as well.

People also mention a "ring" test but this doesn't work IMO.

If buying 1oz silver eagles you will quickly know what a real coin looks like and shouldn't have to worry about fraud.
12/30/11 2:27 PM
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Tommy Gunnz
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ttt for later
12/30/11 2:28 PM
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KOArtist
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. Phone Post
12/30/11 4:28 PM
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SirPrize
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Speaking of selling, here's the question/problem I have with physical silver.

I bought physical and paid spot price + tax. I asked the dealer what he was buying at, and it was below market price and no tax. That means I took a hit when I bought, and I will take a hit when I sell. The bigger the hits, the more silver has to go up before I break even, much less profit.

Am I doing something wrong?

(The dealer told me that with gold, however, I should be able to sell back at market/spot price, so I won't take as much of a hit.)
12/31/11 7:08 AM
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SgtJustinTeplitz
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AG_bull - 
MoreThanUFC - Yes, buying online is safe, but you need to be buying at least 150 oz at a time to take delivery. Learn the Nucleo Exchange on BullionDirect.com. They will hold your silver until you get to a level that makes sense to pay the S&H.

And stay the fuck away from rounds!

Junk silver is fine as long as the coins are really beaten up. Have you checked coinflation.com, SirPrize?



my theory is buy a base first (junk silver), something that can easily be traded and recognized.

then move up to 1oz .999 coins (Eagles or Maples) for as cheap as possible over spot. These are easily recognizable so you will be able to off load them quickly if the need should ever come. Everyone know's what a government coin should look like so there wont be worry of fake silver when it comes to sell. There is little to no paper trail on these.

once you get to the 300-500oz level if you want to lower the price move up to 5-10oz bars. 5oz/10oz bars are lower in price to 1oz coins but less recognizable, these will take longer to off load and you might have to sell for a discount depending on how fast. There is less of a market for these. There will probably be slightly more of a paper trail when dealing with these.

If your stack gets over 1000oz you can start getting the 100oz bars because you've built a good enough base and the price per oz will be cheaper. There is even less of a market for these but bigger dealers will take them as well as local coin shops, it might require shopping around. Also if silver does reach $100/oz that 100 bar = $10,000 so suddenly counter fitting becomes a serious issue. LOTS more of a paper trail on these items.

As for selling do it in reverse order to buying obviously.

I also agree that buy in orders of 100oz+ so the shipping price doesn't kill your bottom line.


Exactly!
12/31/11 7:13 AM
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SgtJustinTeplitz
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BetJits - 
rorce greasy - lol @ waiting 25+ years to cash in on your investment.

Think of it as an emergency stash... If you never need it then in the future buy yourself something


There's nothing wrong with recommending someone hold on to an investment for 25 years.

It's not called emergency stash. It's called retirement. lol


EXACTLY ???r?cys?sh?d???????

?l?
12/31/11 7:17 AM
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SgtJustinTeplitz
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Sorry? am in a weird computer lab in Tokyo for New Year]s Eve


Yes, buying 1 oz Liberats/Maples/Eagles rounds is the best way

to go. If?you buy 10 oz bars, many dealers will not trust them and think there could be fillers inside them and 999 silver just on the outside. That has happened to me when attempting to sell gold/silver.
12/31/11 9:46 AM
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MMA_KNOWLEDGE
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It was at $48 earlier this year... It dropped due to margin calls. I buy about $500 a month at a coin shop. They charge a dollar over spot. Silver is a great hedge against your other investments. Buying and selling the physical has the advantage of being below the radar. Phone Post
12/31/11 9:57 AM
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Rocky Dennis
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 What do you guys think about 64 Kennedy's?  Those are about 90% silver, correct?  I bought about $2k worth from a guy I found on Craigslist.  He sold them to me for a couple dollars UNDER spot.  

You can find some great deals for silver on craigslist
12/31/11 10:45 AM
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EasyTapper
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Rocky Dennis -  What do you guys think about 64 Kennedy's?  Those are about 90% silver, correct?  I bought about $2k worth from a guy I found on Craigslist.  He sold them to me for a couple dollars UNDER spot.  

You can find some great deals for silver on craigslist
I'm jealous. I don't have the 2k, but damn that's sweet. If u sell on eBay, you can easily sell them $9-10 each. Phone Post
12/31/11 11:18 AM
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MoreThanUFC
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SirPrize - Speaking of selling, here's the question/problem I have with physical silver.

I bought physical and paid spot price + tax. I asked the dealer what he was buying at, and it was below market price and no tax. That means I took a hit when I bought, and I will take a hit when I sell. The bigger the hits, the more silver has to go up before I break even, much less profit.

Am I doing something wrong?

(The dealer told me that with gold, however, I should be able to sell back at market/spot price, so I won't take as much of a hit.)

Find another dealer.

Sales tax is applicable if your in state depending on your states laws. Here in Fl, there is a sales tax on PMs unless the value exceeds $500.

You should be paying overspot when you buy, and spot when you sell if you are using dealers. Anyone telling you anything is doing their job and ripping you off. It's your job to know how it's supposed to work. I recommend getting to know one dealer, making an upfront agreement with him on how transactions will be carried out, and then remind him everytime you see him.

That or just use the nucleo exchange, what most serious physical, non-paranoid investors do.
12/31/11 11:36 AM
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rosario00
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T Phone Post
12/31/11 5:55 PM
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David@accu
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Ok i'm new to this and I did my best to try to understand what I could reading through. I have a few questions if someone knowledgable doesn't mind helping out a noob.


1. From what i'm understanding is that Silver is the better buy than Gold?

2. Assume I have $5k to invest. I wouldn't want to warehouse i'm just not trusting like that. I would want physical gold or silver.

3. I read a few posts that stated it was harder to sell 10oz silver bars because most dealers think they are simply .9999 plated and the rest filled. Is this common every where? If I bought from a company like Kitco who have nicely mint bars with their name on it, is that in any way more helpful? I just could imagine running out of room afer a while with coins...

Any noobie help would be appreciated...
12/31/11 6:25 PM
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MoreThanUFC
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Stay away from kitco. Pay attention to what has already been typed. If you are too lazy to read the thread, I am too lazy to help you.
12/31/11 6:51 PM
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David@accu
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MoreThanUFC - Stay away from kitco. Pay attention to what has already been typed. If you are too lazy to read the thread, I am too lazy to help you.

 Kettle meet pot


Did you not read my post? I said quite clearly I read through the thread. I said I took away from it what I could and these were the questions I still had. Nobody said anything about Kitco. If your to lazy to read my post then I really don't want your help
12/31/11 7:15 PM
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EasyTapper
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David@accu -
MoreThanUFC - Stay away from kitco. Pay attention to what has already been typed. If you are too lazy to read the thread, I am too lazy to help you.

 Kettle meet pot


Did you not read my post? I said quite clearly I read through the thread. I said I took away from it what I could and these were the questions I still had. Nobody said anything about Kitco. If your to lazy to read my post then I really don't want your help
You need to go back Dave. UFC posted a link to a news story about KITCO involved in some type of fraud. Phone Post
12/31/11 7:42 PM
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Hob
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 Didn't read the thread... .If you need physical:

http://www.bulliondirect.com/nucleo.do
1/1/12 12:33 PM
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David@accu
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Hob -  Didn't read the thread... .If you need physical:

http://www.bulliondirect.com/nucleo.do

 thx

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