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Judo/Sambo UnderGround >> DO YOU DO SUBMISSIONS IN YOUR DOJO?


12/28/11 1:15 AM
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gbutts
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Today a couple of my 11 and 12 year old students went to judo clinic. I was not there because I had work. I was told that they were force to work with their age group regardless of their skill level.Well when the newaza randori started they were using chokes and armbars, and couple of blackbelts were mad at them for doing armbars and chokes. These blackbelts kept asking them if they were allow to do submissions at their dojo. When they told the blackbelts yes, my students were told that it was wrong for them learn submissions at their age.

Why do judo people insist on not teaching submission until kids reach a certain age or rank?
BJJ KIDS LEARN SUBMISSION FROM DAY 1!


How do judo instructors expect kids and junior players to transition into great senior players if they wait to teach them submission?

They don't unless they are learning submissions from bjj!!

I think it is so funny that my 11 and 12 year old students have better matwork than most judo blackbelts in the US.
12/28/11 4:08 AM
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Spartan79
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I think it comes down to are they responsible enough to know subs. If they were to get into a tear up in the playground and maybe apply a choke or armbar things could get messy. Some kids maybe great and respectable on the matt but outside who knows what goes on! Phone Post
12/28/11 6:13 AM
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judoblackbelt
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Current International Judo Federation Rules as modified:
1. Junior Division - Juvenile A (age 7 to 12) No kansetsu waza or Shime waza is allowed. Gary, that speaks for itself. Maybe these kids at the clnic don't even compete and are clueless to the defenses. To early at an age to do those submissions. I don't agree with BJJ teaching submissions at earlier ages but that is just my thought on the sport. At least the parents in BJJ know what they are exposing their kids to.
12/30/11 2:32 PM
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thePetester
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gbutts - Today a couple of my 11 and 12 year old students went to judo clinic. I was not there because I had work. I was told that they were force to work with their age group regardless of their skill level.Well when the newaza randori started they were using chokes and armbars, and couple of blackbelts were mad at them for doing armbars and chokes. These blackbelts kept asking them if they were allow to do submissions at their dojo. When they told the blackbelts yes, my students were told that it was wrong for them learn submissions at their age.

Why do judo people insist on not teaching submission until kids reach a certain age or rank?
BJJ KIDS LEARN SUBMISSION FROM DAY 1!


How do judo instructors expect kids and junior players to transition into great senior players if they wait to teach them submission?

They don't unless they are learning submissions from bjj!!

I think it is so funny that my 11 and 12 year old students have better matwork than most judo blackbelts in the US.


I had a problem with this at the place I trained at for a while. I wanted the kids who had fundamentally sound pins and pin escapes to start learning subs, regardless of age.

My reasoning was at 13 or if you had a kid who was 12 fighting up an age group, he/she had to know how to apply subs and defend them. You can't just throw a kid out there at 13 into a tournament with no exposure to this stuff. Some others at my club did not like it.

I was given every excuse in the book why we shouldn't do it and not one of them made any sense. If you can break someone's arm with an armlock, can you not break someone's neck with a hip throw or fracture their skull with a pickup? They were worried about kids doing this stuff outside of the club was one excuse. Another was their joints weren't mature enough. But be thrown 100 times a night is any better? Every excuse had a counter argument with what we show standing.
12/31/11 1:18 AM
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Bull_in_chinashop
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gbutts - I think it is so funny that my 11 and 12 year old students have better matwork than most judo blackbelts in the US.


Yet most 11 and 12 year old judoka have better throwing skills than many bjj blackbelts. 
12/31/11 8:04 AM
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Chocolate Shatner
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gbutts, it's quite common, even if I totally disagree with the idea. I even had it here in Japan, where I took a 13 y.o, an in light newaza, locked in a choke. This was because the person kept making the same mistake (I forget exactly what it was now, I wanna say not tucking the chin when someone was on their back) over and over and over. Why? Because as a 11-12 year old, they could get away with it. They turned 13 and had chokes allowed, and they kept with the same technique.

Had to choke the kid 5 or 6 times before they started to wise up, even with me explaining each and every time what they were doing wrong. Thankfully, the other black belts knew exactly what I was doing, and approved. I also did not choke to unconsciousness, I personally feel it isn't necessary to get the lesson across.
1/1/12 7:04 PM
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the rooster
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I am an assistant coach at our judo club (blackbelt in judo and brown belt in bjj). We have from age 3 to 14 in our kids class. We teach chokes around 8 or 9 and arm bars around 11/12 (depending on their maturity). This is partially governed by our local tournaments which are mostly AAU. Because of my background in bjj, I thought it was stupid at first but have changed my mind. Kids should spend their formative years working on their throws and working their positional grappling on the ground. The emphasis should be throwing and pinning, or resisting the takedown and escaping pins. In doing so, they will have very good base, well rounded grappling and when the learn subs, they will not be afraid to try submissions because they will be confident of getting out of pins and of their ground control.

I also thik there is an inherent danger to learning subs to early. 1) kids cant positionally grapple 2) kids are to immature and hurt other kids at practice, at home, at school and 3). Kids don't tap and try to wiggle out of subs and get hurt. My bjj instructor is world class bjj instructor Dustin Denses (choked out Marcelo Garcia). We were talking about my 7 year old and he said he would not have any kid doing bjj until they are 14. They should spend their early years doing nothing but wrestling and judo. That is what my son has been doing since he was 4. He is extremely physical, and even though he's just getting introduced to chokes, I think a lot of 7 year olds doing submissions would have a hard time getting him. I think he'd throw them, pass their guard and pin them. When he finally hits full submissions at 12, he will have a much better feel for grappling and he can focus on submissions and escapes primarily.
1/1/12 7:04 PM
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the rooster
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I am an assistant coach at our judo club (blackbelt in judo and brown belt in bjj). We have from age 3 to 14 in our kids class. We teach chokes around 8 or 9 and arm bars around 11/12 (depending on their maturity). This is partially governed by our local tournaments which are mostly AAU. Because of my background in bjj, I thought it was stupid at first but have changed my mind. Kids should spend their formative years working on their throws and working their positional grappling on the ground. The emphasis should be throwing and pinning, or resisting the takedown and escaping pins. In doing so, they will have very good base, well rounded grappling and when the learn subs, they will not be afraid to try submissions because they will be confident of getting out of pins and of their ground control.

I also thik there is an inherent danger to learning subs to early. 1) kids cant positionally grapple 2) kids are to immature and hurt other kids at practice, at home, at school and 3). Kids don't tap and try to wiggle out of subs and get hurt. My bjj instructor is world class bjj instructor Dustin Denses (choked out Marcelo Garcia). We were talking about my 7 year old and he said he would not have any kid doing bjj until they are 14. They should spend their early years doing nothing but wrestling and judo. That is what my son has been doing since he was 4. He is extremely physical, and even though he's just getting introduced to chokes, I think a lot of 7 year olds doing submissions would have a hard time getting him. I think he'd throw them, pass their guard and pin them. When he finally hits full submissions at 12, he will have a much better feel for grappling and he can focus on submissions and escapes primarily.
1/3/12 8:37 PM
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LeroyJ
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Regardless of your BJJ background, and your subjective opinions about what's acceptable, as a coach, you should be preparing your students to behave according to the rules and etiquette of the sport, especially when practicing outside the your own dojo. What would you do if your kids went to a BJJ seminar and other kids started doing ground & pound from the guard?

You can control what kids do inside your own dojo, especially when you have the opportunity to educate their parents & monitor the progress & atmosphere inside your own walls. That's not what my point is. (do whatever you want inside your own dojo)

However, when your kids are participating in a shared/community event, you have to prepare them for the lowest common denominator, and that's the IJF rules. By not doing so, you are making the decision about what is right for all of those other kids who are not under your control or purview, and you don't have consent from their parents. This is a subjective choice you are making based on your opinion, but it's got the potential of impacting the safety and health of the kids you have no control over. It's not your choice to make.

Your opinion on what's acceptable may be completely different from the Judo rules. However, the worldwide community of Judo got together, agreed and ratified the rules. This was done at great effort, and many people actually agree with the compromises that were made. These decisions were made with many global cultural factors and scientific data in mind, and with some data that you probably haven't studied.

If you disagree with the policy, put together some new empirical data and submit it for consideration. Perhaps you can help change the rules for the better.
1/4/12 10:07 AM
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thePetester
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LeroyJ - Regardless of your BJJ background, and your subjective opinions about what's acceptable, as a coach, you should be preparing your students to behave according to the rules and etiquette of the sport, especially when practicing outside the your own dojo. What would you do if your kids went to a BJJ seminar and other kids started doing ground & pound from the guard?

You can control what kids do inside your own dojo, especially when you have the opportunity to educate their parents & monitor the progress & atmosphere inside your own walls. That's not what my point is. (do whatever you want inside your own dojo)

However, when your kids are participating in a shared/community event, you have to prepare them for the lowest common denominator, and that's the IJF rules. By not doing so, you are making the decision about what is right for all of those other kids who are not under your control or purview, and you don't have consent from their parents. This is a subjective choice you are making based on your opinion, but it's got the potential of impacting the safety and health of the kids you have no control over. It's not your choice to make.

Your opinion on what's acceptable may be completely different from the Judo rules. However, the worldwide community of Judo got together, agreed and ratified the rules. This was done at great effort, and many people actually agree with the compromises that were made. These decisions were made with many global cultural factors and scientific data in mind, and with some data that you probably haven't studied.

If you disagree with the policy, put together some new empirical data and submit it for consideration. Perhaps you can help change the rules for the better.


LeroyJ,

As well thought out as your statement is, there are several misstatements. The biggest being that 'the worldwide community of Judo got together' is patently false. The rules are made by a few people at the top and, as with any large political organization with only a few people at the top, are often not based on anything more than compromises based on specific agendas of those people.

Also, unless I am reading your statements incorrectly, you tell whomever your post is addressed to that they can do what they want in their own club, but then tell them that they should not teach chokes and armbars because the IJF makes the rules. Am I reading your thoughts incorrectly?
1/4/12 3:55 PM
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gbutts
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Some people need to read my post again.

1. My students should had been allow to workout the advance player because of their skill level. They did benefit from this clinic because they were not allow to learn from the higher level instructors.

2. The IJF does not govern what techniques should be taught, they govern what techniques can be used in competition.

3. Again the US judo will never catch up top countries in their throwing capabilities because we do not have enough people doing judo but we can beat these countries using matwork.

4. Juniors will not transition well into senior competition if instructors wait to their students turn a certain age to teach them certain techniques.

5. Armbarns , chokes, wristlocks , leglocks , are no more dangerous than throws and takedowns.



1/4/12 7:46 PM
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the rooster
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Gbutts, there is plenty to learn about grappling besides submissions. The art of pinning and escaping pins is vital and an important aspect of grappling.if a bjj guy is solely hunting submissions but can't stop being stuck in a pin or can't control his opponent he's missing a vital aspect of grappling.

I would also argue that a kid who learns to break falls and doesn't have the height or weight of an adult isn't at as much of a risk getting taken down then an arm lock.

1/4/12 9:11 PM
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gbutts
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the rooster - Gbutts, there is plenty to learn about grappling besides submissions. The art of pinning and escaping pins is vital and an important aspect of grappling.if a bjj guy is solely hunting submissions but can't stop being stuck in a pin or can't control his opponent he's missing a vital aspect of grappling.

I would also argue that a kid who learns to break falls and doesn't have the height or weight of an adult isn't at as much of a risk getting taken down then an arm lock.


After 35 years of grappling I understand grappling also consist of pins and escape. Btw, my students are being train to be compete Grapplers ( they can go to any style of grappling competition and do very well). Anyway my point is that we stop making excuse for why don't teach this or not to kids because waiting for them to turn a certain age puts them at a disadvantage. Also, I don't to many high level grapplers that were prohibit from learning techniques because they a certain age when they were young.
1/5/12 11:17 AM
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YumYumPandaburger
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It is because kids are not reponsible enough to learn to use chokes, but they are responsible enough to violently slam other kids on their heads repeatedly.
1/6/12 6:25 PM
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the rooster
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gbutts - 
the rooster - Gbutts, there is plenty to learn about grappling besides submissions. The art of pinning and escaping pins is vital and an important aspect of grappling.if a bjj guy is solely hunting submissions but can't stop being stuck in a pin or can't control his opponent he's missing a vital aspect of grappling.

I would also argue that a kid who learns to break falls and doesn't have the height or weight of an adult isn't at as much of a risk getting taken down then an arm lock.


After 35 years of grappling I understand grappling also consist of pins and escape. Btw, my students are being train to be compete Grapplers ( they can go to any style of grappling competition and do very well). Anyway my point is that we stop making excuse for why don't teach this or not to kids because waiting for them to turn a certain age puts them at a disadvantage. Also, I don't to many high level grapplers that were prohibit from learning techniques because they a certain age when they were young.


Then if you understand grappling how do you properly prioritize what you teach a child and on what order. When I was with the Rickson association the emphasis up to purple belt was basic submissions and the ability to efficiently "wrestle" (control and escapes) and that was for adults.

In bjj you have many clubs that de-emphasize throws and won't teach leg locks until purple or brown. Wrestling is wrestling, judo is judo, and bjj is bjj. They all have different aspects of grappling and it's odd that you think that judo is doing a disservice by not shoeing submissions earlier. That time is spent teaching throws, pinning combinations, escapes, sweeps, grip fighting etc.

1/6/12 6:28 PM
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the rooster
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YumYumPandaburger - It is because kids are not reponsible enough to learn to use chokes, but they are responsible enough to violently slam other kids on their heads repeatedly.


I've been teaching youth judo for Yeats and we don't teach kids to throw other kids okn their heads. The curriculum teaches sacrifice throws, hip throws, foot sweeps, etc. what throw are you talking about in particular?

In judo you get ippon (total victory) by throwing someone with force *on their back* not their head and pinning them outside of guard and 1/2 guard.

So you really aren't talking apples to apples.
1/6/12 6:29 PM
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the rooster
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Oops, that's. "for years" not "Yeats" don't like auto check on the iPad!
1/6/12 11:14 PM
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judoinmotion
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Yes, in my club I teach submission to certain kids under 12, however, I make sure they understand not to use in judo competition, clinics or in other judo kids visiting our dojo. They are only allowed to do submissions with certain partners while training or during NAGA and BJJ tournaments. I never had a problem.
1/7/12 3:07 AM
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YumYumPandaburger
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the rooster - 
YumYumPandaburger - It is because kids are not reponsible enough to learn to use chokes, but they are responsible enough to violently slam other kids on their heads repeatedly.


I've been teaching youth judo for Yeats and we don't teach kids to throw other kids okn their heads. The curriculum teaches sacrifice throws, hip throws, foot sweeps, etc. what throw are you talking about in particular?

In judo you get ippon (total victory) by throwing someone with force *on their back* not their head and pinning them outside of guard and 1/2 guard.

So you really aren't talking apples to apples.


Submissions in competition or training aren't really meant to break arms of choke people until they die either. That is what happens when something goes wrong, just like someone landing on their head will happen when inexerienced people start throwing each other around.

I can't get the logic of why one is ok for kids and one isn't. If you want to play it safe then just let them newaza from the knees without subs. If you want them to learn throws as well you may as well teach them subs in a safe environment.
1/7/12 3:59 AM
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gbutts
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the rooster - 
gbutts - 
the rooster - Gbutts, there is plenty to learn about grappling besides submissions. The art of pinning and escaping pins is vital and an important aspect of grappling.if a bjj guy is solely hunting submissions but can't stop being stuck in a pin or can't control his opponent he's missing a vital aspect of grappling.

I would also argue that a kid who learns to break falls and doesn't have the height or weight of an adult isn't at as much of a risk getting taken down then an arm lock.


After 35 years of grappling I understand grappling also consist of pins and escape. Btw, my students are being train to be compete Grapplers ( they can go to any style of grappling competition and do very well). Anyway my point is that we stop making excuse for why don't teach this or not to kids because waiting for them to turn a certain age puts them at a disadvantage. Also, I don't to many high level grapplers that were prohibit from learning techniques because they a certain age when they were young.


Then if you understand grappling how do you properly prioritize what you teach a child and on what order. When I was with the Rickson association the emphasis up to purple belt was basic submissions and the ability to efficiently "wrestle" (control and escapes) and that was for adults.

In bjj you have many clubs that de-emphasize throws and won't teach leg locks until purple or brown. Wrestling is wrestling, judo is judo, and bjj is bjj. They all have different aspects of grappling and it's odd that you think that judo is doing a disservice by not shoeing submissions earlier. That time is spent teaching throws, pinning combinations, escapes, sweeps, grip fighting etc.


Your first mistake to think that all these grappling arts do not have a common base. These grappling arts have certain rule set that differentia them from each other. I don't know if you ever reach a high level in judo or workout with any elite judo players but they learn submission early. I would be just repeating myself about American judo, so please read my earlier post again. Btw, yes spend I time teaching throws, pinning combinations, escapes, sweeps, grip fighting etc (transitions into matwork) and all forms submissions because we train 3 to 4 hours a session. I don't believe in teaching for a hour blocks like most bjj school so I have time to cover everything. My student also don't change the way grapple when compete because their judo base is sound and it transfers in all grappling competitions. I have been doing judo for 22 years and I have trained with some of the best people in the US and World I can't make it any clearer that US must start teaching kids matwork earlier or they will grow-up to become what is representing US Judo today (a laughing stock in the world of judo). Btw, I glad that Ronda, Jimmy Pedro, Rhadi, Canto, David and Dan etc.. had instructors that believe in teaching chokes and armbars early.
1/7/12 4:59 PM
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the rooster
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gbutts - 
the rooster - 
gbutts - 
the rooster - Gbutts, there is plenty to learn about grappling besides submissions. The art of pinning and escaping pins is vital and an important aspect of grappling.if a bjj guy is solely hunting submissions but can't stop being stuck in a pin or can't control his opponent he's missing a vital aspect of grappling.

I would also argue that a kid who learns to break falls and doesn't have the height or weight of an adult isn't at as much of a risk getting taken down then an arm lock.


After 35 years of grappling I understand grappling also consist of pins and escape. Btw, my students are being train to be compete Grapplers ( they can go to any style of grappling competition and do very well). Anyway my point is that we stop making excuse for why don't teach this or not to kids because waiting for them to turn a certain age puts them at a disadvantage. Also, I don't to many high level grapplers that were prohibit from learning techniques because they a certain age when they were young.


Then if you understand grappling how do you properly prioritize what you teach a child and on what order. When I was with the Rickson association the emphasis up to purple belt was basic submissions and the ability to efficiently "wrestle" (control and escapes) and that was for adults.

In bjj you have many clubs that de-emphasize throws and won't teach leg locks until purple or brown. Wrestling is wrestling, judo is judo, and bjj is bjj. They all have different aspects of grappling and it's odd that you think that judo is doing a disservice by not shoeing submissions earlier. That time is spent teaching throws, pinning combinations, escapes, sweeps, grip fighting etc.


Your first mistake to think that all these grappling arts do not have a common base. These grappling arts have certain rule set that differentia them from each other. I don't know if you ever reach a high level in judo or workout with any elite judo players but they learn submission early. I would be just repeating myself about American judo, so please read my earlier post again. Btw, yes spend I time teaching throws, pinning combinations, escapes, sweeps, grip fighting etc (transitions into matwork) and all forms submissions because we train 3 to 4 hours a session. I don't believe in teaching for a hour blocks like most bjj school so I have time to cover everything. My student also don't change the way grapple when compete because their judo base is sound and it transfers in all grappling competitions. I have been doing judo for 22 years and I have trained with some of the best people in the US and World I can't make it any clearer that US must start teaching kids matwork earlier or they will grow-up to become what is representing US Judo today (a laughing stock in the world of judo). Btw, I glad that Ronda, Jimmy Pedro, Rhadi, Canto, David and Dan etc.. had instructors that believe in teaching chokes and armbars early.


Well, I trained for several years with alisher Montobetov. He's an elite judoka. I also trained for years, years ago with Shawn Watson who was trained at the Olympic center under John saylor and trained with Jason Morris, ,jimmy etc.

I've trained with some pretty good judoka. But my bjj instructor, who is a world class bjj'er, has done mma, wrestled, and is now doing judo puts a high emphasis on developing base, pins, wrestler mindset etc. once you have all the ingredients of position, you can spend your whole life tapping people. But sounds like you are a good coach and we can agree to disagree.
1/7/12 4:59 PM
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the rooster
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gbutts - 
the rooster - 
gbutts - 
the rooster - Gbutts, there is plenty to learn about grappling besides submissions. The art of pinning and escaping pins is vital and an important aspect of grappling.if a bjj guy is solely hunting submissions but can't stop being stuck in a pin or can't control his opponent he's missing a vital aspect of grappling.

I would also argue that a kid who learns to break falls and doesn't have the height or weight of an adult isn't at as much of a risk getting taken down then an arm lock.


After 35 years of grappling I understand grappling also consist of pins and escape. Btw, my students are being train to be compete Grapplers ( they can go to any style of grappling competition and do very well). Anyway my point is that we stop making excuse for why don't teach this or not to kids because waiting for them to turn a certain age puts them at a disadvantage. Also, I don't to many high level grapplers that were prohibit from learning techniques because they a certain age when they were young.


Then if you understand grappling how do you properly prioritize what you teach a child and on what order. When I was with the Rickson association the emphasis up to purple belt was basic submissions and the ability to efficiently "wrestle" (control and escapes) and that was for adults.

In bjj you have many clubs that de-emphasize throws and won't teach leg locks until purple or brown. Wrestling is wrestling, judo is judo, and bjj is bjj. They all have different aspects of grappling and it's odd that you think that judo is doing a disservice by not shoeing submissions earlier. That time is spent teaching throws, pinning combinations, escapes, sweeps, grip fighting etc.


Your first mistake to think that all these grappling arts do not have a common base. These grappling arts have certain rule set that differentia them from each other. I don't know if you ever reach a high level in judo or workout with any elite judo players but they learn submission early. I would be just repeating myself about American judo, so please read my earlier post again. Btw, yes spend I time teaching throws, pinning combinations, escapes, sweeps, grip fighting etc (transitions into matwork) and all forms submissions because we train 3 to 4 hours a session. I don't believe in teaching for a hour blocks like most bjj school so I have time to cover everything. My student also don't change the way grapple when compete because their judo base is sound and it transfers in all grappling competitions. I have been doing judo for 22 years and I have trained with some of the best people in the US and World I can't make it any clearer that US must start teaching kids matwork earlier or they will grow-up to become what is representing US Judo today (a laughing stock in the world of judo). Btw, I glad that Ronda, Jimmy Pedro, Rhadi, Canto, David and Dan etc.. had instructors that believe in teaching chokes and armbars early.


Well, I trained for several years with alisher Montobetov. He's an elite judoka. I also trained for years, years ago with Shawn Watson who was trained at the Olympic center under John saylor and trained with Jason Morris, ,jimmy etc.

I've trained with some pretty good judoka. But my bjj instructor, who is a world class bjj'er, has done mma, wrestled, and is now doing judo puts a high emphasis on developing base, pins, wrestler mindset etc. once you have all the ingredients of position, you can spend your whole life tapping people. But sounds like you are a good coach and we can agree to disagree.
1/8/12 4:42 AM
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gbutts
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the rooster - 
gbutts - 
the rooster - 
gbutts - 
the rooster - Gbutts, there is plenty to learn about grappling besides submissions. The art of pinning and escaping pins is vital and an important aspect of grappling.if a bjj guy is solely hunting submissions but can't stop being stuck in a pin or can't control his opponent he's missing a vital aspect of grappling.

I would also argue that a kid who learns to break falls and doesn't have the height or weight of an adult isn't at as much of a risk getting taken down then an arm lock.


After 35 years of grappling I understand grappling also consist of pins and escape. Btw, my students are being train to be compete Grapplers ( they can go to any style of grappling competition and do very well). Anyway my point is that we stop making excuse for why don't teach this or not to kids because waiting for them to turn a certain age puts them at a disadvantage. Also, I don't to many high level grapplers that were prohibit from learning techniques because they a certain age when they were young.


Then if you understand grappling how do you properly prioritize what you teach a child and on what order. When I was with the Rickson association the emphasis up to purple belt was basic submissions and the ability to efficiently "wrestle" (control and escapes) and that was for adults.

In bjj you have many clubs that de-emphasize throws and won't teach leg locks until purple or brown. Wrestling is wrestling, judo is judo, and bjj is bjj. They all have different aspects of grappling and it's odd that you think that judo is doing a disservice by not shoeing submissions earlier. That time is spent teaching throws, pinning combinations, escapes, sweeps, grip fighting etc.


Your first mistake to think that all these grappling arts do not have a common base. These grappling arts have certain rule set that differentia them from each other. I don't know if you ever reach a high level in judo or workout with any elite judo players but they learn submission early. I would be just repeating myself about American judo, so please read my earlier post again. Btw, yes spend I time teaching throws, pinning combinations, escapes, sweeps, grip fighting etc (transitions into matwork) and all forms submissions because we train 3 to 4 hours a session. I don't believe in teaching for a hour blocks like most bjj school so I have time to cover everything. My student also don't change the way grapple when compete because their judo base is sound and it transfers in all grappling competitions. I have been doing judo for 22 years and I have trained with some of the best people in the US and World I can't make it any clearer that US must start teaching kids matwork earlier or they will grow-up to become what is representing US Judo today (a laughing stock in the world of judo). Btw, I glad that Ronda, Jimmy Pedro, Rhadi, Canto, David and Dan etc.. had instructors that believe in teaching chokes and armbars early.


Well, I trained for several years with alisher Montobetov. He's an elite judoka. I also trained for years, years ago with Shawn Watson who was trained at the Olympic center under John saylor and trained with Jason Morris, ,jimmy etc.

I've trained with some pretty good judoka. But my bjj instructor, who is a world class bjj'er, has done mma, wrestled, and is now doing judo puts a high emphasis on developing base, pins, wrestler mindset etc. once you have all the ingredients of position, you can spend your whole life tapping people. But sounds like you are a good coach and we can agree to disagree.

Yes we can agree to disgree and still love what we do. Train hard and stay safe.
1/11/12 2:18 AM
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Koga
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"I don't to many high level grapplers that were prohibit from learning techniques because they a certain age when they were young."

What age do you think Renzo Gracie was when he was taught leglocks or Kashiwazaki was when he was taught chokes? I can't think of any high level grapplers that were NOT prohibited from learning techniques because they too young at the time and who later mastered them.
1/11/12 6:52 AM
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gbutts
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Koga - "I don't to many high level grapplers that were prohibit from learning techniques because they a certain age when they were young."

What age do you think Renzo Gracie was when he was taught leglocks or Kashiwazaki was when he was taught chokes? I can't think of any high level grapplers that were NOT prohibited from learning techniques because they too young at the time and who later mastered them.



Ok! All young sambo players stop doing leglocks because Renzo Gracie did not do leglocks as a kid. Btw, how do you know what the gracie 's taught? I guess you grew up with them! Did you read my post because I name alot of high level people that were taught submission when they were really young and yes I know these people and have with most of them. The point I was making that the blackbelts should not be telling my students that they should not have been taught something especially when they don't know what skill level my students have obtained. I would never tell someones students that you have learn or not leArn something.

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