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S&C UnderGround >> 170LBS TO 180 IN A YEAR - POSSIBLE AT 39?


1/11/12 7:36 PM
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waxwing slain
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419 - Is there a large gap between the crook of your elbow and your bicep when you flex with your knuckles facing you?

 I can fit two fingers in the gap - about an inch
1/11/12 7:42 PM
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419
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It's going to be tough for you to add ten pounds of muscle; that said, very few things worth doing are easy.
1/12/12 4:12 AM
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gusto
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None So Blind - 
Leigh -  This isn't his first year of training

Also, people are individuals. Just because you did it, doesn't mean he can. As an example, Dorian Yates is 5'10 but you will NEVER be ripped at 300lbs, even with drugs.

This guy is 39 - his body has settled at a comfortable weight and is not going to want to change that much <img border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;" alt="Phone Post" src="/images/phone/droid.png" />

 True, but at 6 foot and 180 he's still likely pretty skinny - I've seen Rip argue (and argue and argue and argue!) that damn near anyone who is 6 feet tall and under 220 is likely underweight for someone doing serious strength training, even into the late 30s.

That said, I have a buddy who is 6'4 and probably 160 at best, that guy could eat a horse a day and deadlift like a maniac and never cross 200, his frame is so startlingly narrow :-P



At what level of leaness is someone 6 ft 220 severely underweight
1/12/12 8:43 AM
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waxwing slain
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419 - It's going to be tough for you to add ten pounds of muscle; that said, very few things worth doing are easy.
Can you explain? Phone Post
1/12/12 11:52 AM
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None So Blind
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gusto - 
None So Blind - 
Leigh -  This isn't his first year of training

Also, people are individuals. Just because you did it, doesn't mean he can. As an example, Dorian Yates is 5'10 but you will NEVER be ripped at 300lbs, even with drugs.

This guy is 39 - his body has settled at a comfortable weight and is not going to want to change that much <img border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;" alt="Phone Post" src="/images/phone/droid.png" />

 True, but at 6 foot and 180 he's still likely pretty skinny - I've seen Rip argue (and argue and argue and argue!) that damn near anyone who is 6 feet tall and under 220 is likely underweight for someone doing serious strength training, even into the late 30s.

That said, I have a buddy who is 6'4 and probably 160 at best, that guy could eat a horse a day and deadlift like a maniac and never cross 200, his frame is so startlingly narrow :-P



At what level of leaness is someone 6 ft 220 severely underweight

Fuck if I know - ask Rip, he's the one who rants about needing to eat like a starving grizzly :-P

(though to be fair, I did not say "severely," 6'0 and 215 is obviously different from 6'0 and 150, etc.)
 
1/12/12 9:35 PM
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CrossFit650
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I would recommend checking out at the article Clean Mass Gain by Dallas Hartwig of Whole9. It is a great article where he lays out how to put on clean mass while being Paleo, which will meet your Gluten Free requirement.

http://whole9life.com/2011/08/clean-mass-gain/ Phone Post
1/13/12 5:32 AM
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WidespreadPanic
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OK, don't mean to be oblique.

When I say the most you can -expect- to gain in a year, 12 months is 4 pounds of absolutely lean muscle, i.e. not weighing any fat (dunk tank, bod-pod, etc.)

Consider how many workouts you can get in a year.
Consider your age
Consider how much 'bulk' 4 pounds of muscle actually looks like. Picture moulding 95% lean hamburger on your arms, chest, back and legs and shoulders, and how big you'd look.

Most people gain about 50-50 if they've been lifting for a while and are 'garbaging up'. So that would be about 8lbs of 50% muscle. Some weight would be added due to additional connective tissue (and skin!), bone mass, height (if you'r still growing), and non-obvious muscle or disproportionate muscle.

If you are young, going through a growth spurt, have been under fed, or other intangible factors, you can gain a lot of weight, even up to 25-30lbs and look pretty good 'gym-body' wise. Is it fair to say that's 30lbs of 'Muscle'?

If you have added the amount of weight you claim and you were careful in measuring, have great genetics, good muscle bellies, add the amount of weight in the right place, have great nutrition and sleep and NEVER backslide in a year, then maybe you could get around 10lbs unless you had been working out for 5 years or so religiously. Then gains come very slowly.

If you take a person who is 15% BF (dunk tank) and reduce their BF by 5%, and add 2lbs of muscle, they'll look pretty good. Reduce it to 8% or a little less and add 2-4lbs of muscle and they'd look stunning, while still not adding a lot of bulk they have to carry around, not decrease their athleticism.

So don't worry too much about what the scale says. Use the mirror and tape measure.

HTH

1/13/12 5:14 PM
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419
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The larger the gap between the crook of your elbow and your bicep, the shorter your muscle bellies. Those with shorter muscle bellies cannot build as much muscle as those who are blessed with longer muscle bellies. There are other factors (some are within your control, and others are not). That said, there's only one way to discover your max muscle potential.
1/23/12 3:55 AM
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Easytarget
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gusto -
At what level of leaness is someone 6 ft 220 severely underweight


Yeah i also wonder about what riptoe says at times. Because if you are 220 and at 10% you won the genetic lottery.
1/23/12 5:24 AM
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banco
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Easytarget - 
gusto -
At what level of leaness is someone 6 ft 220 severely underweight


Yeah i also wonder about what riptoe says at times. Because if you are 220 and at 10% you won the genetic lottery.


Yeah but Rippetoe is talking about 15-18% bodyfat for strength athletes. You don't see many powerlifters at 10%.
1/23/12 9:43 AM
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Easytarget
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banco 
Yeah but Rippetoe is talking about 15-18% bodyfat for strength athletes. You don't see many powerlifters at 10%.


cool, didnt know that was his range
1/2/13 1:50 PM
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waxwing slain
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thought it would be semi-interesting to update this a year later...

bumping for later when I can put my thoughts together
1/2/13 1:59 PM
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Shortkick
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waxwing slain - thought it would be semi-interesting to update this a year later...

bumping for later when I can put my thoughts together
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1/2/13 2:39 PM
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Leigh
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Good stuff, interested to hear how you got on Phone Post
1/2/13 3:59 PM
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OregonChaelClosedDueToBandWagonCrash
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In! Phone Post
1/2/13 5:17 PM
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WidespreadPanic
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Yeah, really man, hope you did it and beat the odds. Don't keep us in suspense!!

 

1/2/13 10:04 PM
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waxwing slain
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Sorry for the delay – wanted to type on a real computer and not the app. Apologize for FRAT in advance – will put a high level summary at the end for the short attention span.

To cut to the chase, the story does not turn out with me gaining 10lbs of muscle. But, at least to my mind, it has a happy ending. My goals ended up evolving with the circumstances of my health, but ultimately I’m much stronger, injury free, and set up for a big year lifting in 2013.

So out of the gate the first thing I did a year ago was alter my diet. I had no idea how much food you had to eat to pack on that kind of mass, and honestly, I don’t think I hit my goal of 270g of protein/day (1.5g per lb of goal weight, 180) more than 3 times a week. The weekends were easy; the workweek was extremely hard (I also travel 2-3 month including international). I got as close as possible by eating plain greek yogurt with walnuts between meals and big protein shakes before bed.

The first obstacle – in March I suddenly developed a nasty case of tennis elbow in my right arm. I’ve struggled with elbow issues in the past (my first non-troll post on MMA.tv as this screen name in ’08 was about my golfer’s elbow in my left arm). I went to an ortho who tried to give me injections, which are controversial in tennis/golfer’s elbow as the injuries are most likely NOT tendonitis, but small tears that are not helped by steroids.

Instead of taking the steroid injections or laying off for several weeks, I decided to completely re-evaluate my training. Honestly, I was mostly using a “bodybuilding” type 5 day a week split with multiple exercises, isolation movements, and high reps.

Based on a suggestion on this forum, I switched to Stronglifts 5x5 in late March. What a huge fucking game-changer. I was able to do just the basic multi-joint lifts (with a bit of an aide from a tennis elbow strap) without any pain. By July the tennis elbow was completely resolved and the lingering golfer’s elbow was gone as well.

In July I decided to make a slight modification from Stronglifts to Wendler’s 5/3/1. I’ll be honest – I did this because squatting that much was wiping me out (given my work schedule and general vaginess) and I felt like my progress was being stunted in the other movements. I haven’t looked back. 6 straight months of 5/3/1 has absolutely helped me shatter my PRs in all my lifts. I’m the strongest I've ever been. I’ll get to the % increases in a moment.

So…here’s where the hiccup in my plan comes along. In August I went in for my annual physical. I was up to 178 lbs from 169.5 in January 2012, but it was pretty obviously not all muscle. I wasn’t worried all that much as I figured I was following Arnold’s advice of bulking up the foundation and could cut later.

The problem? My fucking cholesterol was through the roof. My totals were in the 270s and my good cholesterol was at a very minimal 43ish. I’d been eating a very high fat diet and eating way, way too much red meat. So starting in Aug/Sept, I decided the goal was no longer to be 10lbs of muscle heavier, but just to be as strong as I could possibly be.
FRAT Summary

174lbs, same approximate bf% as before. Approximately 4lbs of muscle added. Nagging tennis and golfer’s elbow gone. Switched from traditional bodybuilding training to just the basic multi-joint lifts following 5/3/1.

1RM increases since I assessed maxes back in March 2012.

Bench – 1RM up 20 lbs. A little disappointed, but I’m training with an experience partner now and he’s pushing me hard every week.

Press – 1 RM up 30 lbs (for the record I had never done standing press, just DB press, so I’m most proud of this increase). What a hard fucking lift.

Squat – 1RM up 45 lbs

DL 1 RM up 50lbs

I get my cholesterol re-checked in February…if it’s back down to healthy levels I will consider the whole thing a big success.
1/2/13 10:40 PM
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Shortkick
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Good for you man! Injury free and healthy is all you can really ask for. Thanks for sharing Phone Post
1/2/13 11:13 PM
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OregonChaelClosedDueToBandWagonCrash
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Sounds like a successfull year to me. Good for you. Phone Post
1/2/13 11:56 PM
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banco
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None So Blind - If you're 5'11, you should be able to hit 220 easy, so why aim so low with 180?

I'm one inch taller, was 180 in college and grad school, and at age 40 two years ago started lifting heavy, I'd lifted a lot for years prior, but not CORRECTLY - that means (A) doing the big lifts like squats and deads, (B) using a proper form of progression in weight, (C) eating like an animal, which it looks like you are realizing, and (D) getting proper sleep to recover.

I'm now 220, and I could have hit 230 had I stayed with it for the last third of last year, though I'd say I could drop 20 pounds of pure fat pretty quick (relatively), and then some more after that if I felt like getting cut (which I don't).

I am not athletically gifted in the slightest, FWIW. But I lifted hard, progressed every time according to Rippetoe's "Starting Strength" program, ate like a horse, and got a TON stronger and bigger to where people around me were jokingly asking me if I was on steroids. This was the first 6 months.

If you are starting a new program and are not already squatting 300 pounds, I would think your goal is easily within reach. Age be damned.

Without drugs a 5'11" 220 guy will normally be pretty sloppy.
1/3/13 2:56 AM
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Leigh
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Good stuff :) Phone Post
1/3/13 2:14 PM
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None So Blind
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banco - 
None So Blind - If you're 5'11, you should be able to hit 220 easy, so why aim so low with 180?

I'm one inch taller, was 180 in college and grad school, and at age 40 two years ago started lifting heavy, I'd lifted a lot for years prior, but not CORRECTLY - that means (A) doing the big lifts like squats and deads, (B) using a proper form of progression in weight, (C) eating like an animal, which it looks like you are realizing, and (D) getting proper sleep to recover.

I'm now 220, and I could have hit 230 had I stayed with it for the last third of last year, though I'd say I could drop 20 pounds of pure fat pretty quick (relatively), and then some more after that if I felt like getting cut (which I don't).

I am not athletically gifted in the slightest, FWIW. But I lifted hard, progressed every time according to Rippetoe's "Starting Strength" program, ate like a horse, and got a TON stronger and bigger to where people around me were jokingly asking me if I was on steroids. This was the first 6 months.

If you are starting a new program and are not already squatting 300 pounds, I would think your goal is easily within reach. Age be damned.

Without drugs a 5'11" 220 guy will normally be pretty sloppy.

I've seen quite a few to the contrary. This gets into the whole argument of what bodybuilders look like vs. what powerlifters look like, and I'm sure neither of us wishes to rehash that bullshit here. Whatever floats your boat - if you want to squat 405 with a belly or squat 225 and have a six-pack - go for it.

And in any case, Rippetoe's whole approach is based on ignoring the fat gain at the beginning of his program, as the goal is simply to get big and strong as fast as possible. Fat cutting can come later. Obviously, this does require some tweaking for someone who is not a 6 foot 140 pound 15 year old kid who can do GOMAD and make freakish gains - us older farts do in fact need to keep BP, cholesterol, etc., in mind.
1/3/13 3:38 PM
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419
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Not every body is the same.
1/3/13 4:28 PM
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Leigh
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None So Blind -
banco - 
None So Blind - If you're 5'11, you should be able to hit 220 easy, so why aim so low with 180?

I'm one inch taller, was 180 in college and grad school, and at age 40 two years ago started lifting heavy, I'd lifted a lot for years prior, but not CORRECTLY - that means (A) doing the big lifts like squats and deads, (B) using a proper form of progression in weight, (C) eating like an animal, which it looks like you are realizing, and (D) getting proper sleep to recover.

I'm now 220, and I could have hit 230 had I stayed with it for the last third of last year, though I'd say I could drop 20 pounds of pure fat pretty quick (relatively), and then some more after that if I felt like getting cut (which I don't).

I am not athletically gifted in the slightest, FWIW. But I lifted hard, progressed every time according to Rippetoe's "Starting Strength" program, ate like a horse, and got a TON stronger and bigger to where people around me were jokingly asking me if I was on steroids. This was the first 6 months.

If you are starting a new program and are not already squatting 300 pounds, I would think your goal is easily within reach. Age be damned.

Without drugs a 5'11" 220 guy will normally be pretty sloppy.

I've seen quite a few to the contrary. This gets into the whole argument of what bodybuilders look like vs. what powerlifters look like, and I'm sure neither of us wishes to rehash that bullshit here. Whatever floats your boat - if you want to squat 405 with a belly or squat 225 and have a six-pack - go for it.

And in any case, Rippetoe's whole approach is based on ignoring the fat gain at the beginning of his program, as the goal is simply to get big and strong as fast as possible. Fat cutting can come later. Obviously, this does require some tweaking for someone who is not a 6 foot 140 pound 15 year old kid who can do GOMAD and make freakish gains - us older farts do in fact need to keep BP, cholesterol, etc., in mind.
I've not seen many lean guys at 5'11 220. I have known a little bloke squat more than 405 with a six pack though ;) Phone Post
1/5/13 7:38 AM
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