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HolyGround >> If a Christian Soldier kills someone...


1/3/12 10:09 PM
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tomp6581
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...in War, does he go to hell if he is not remorseful?

I like discussing these type of things and I don't mean to troll anyone #FYI Phone Post
1/4/12 4:04 AM
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Lahi
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I think it depends on where his heart is at. But I also don't believe in Hell the way most people think of it.
1/5/12 11:57 PM
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yusul
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Let me throw the question 180 degrees: if he's not remorseful nor repenting for killing another human, is he truly a believer?
1/6/12 5:15 AM
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tomp6581
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yusul - Let me throw the question 180 degrees: if he's not remorseful nor repenting for killing another human, is he truly a believer?
Maybe, maybe not. That's a different question I think.

This Soldier does believe, but is under the impression his enemy were all evil, therefore it justifys his actions.

Would God forgive him even if he truely believed his enemy to be evil (even if they were not) Phone Post
1/6/12 4:24 PM
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colubrid1
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Did Peter repent after he cut the ear off the slave in Gethsenemi?
1/6/12 4:30 PM
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colubrid1
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Their is a an old saying; "there are no athiests in Fox Holes". Meaning when it comes to going into battle . You are on your knees whether christian or not. It is something that all men question when they face real life death situations.

So as a Christian soldier and having a personal relationship with God. Prayers go out before any killing. ..To not have to kill anyone nor be killed.

1/7/12 3:03 PM
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zealot66
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colubrid1 - Their is a an old saying; "there are no athiests in Fox Holes". Meaning when it comes to going into battle . You are on your knees whether christian or not. It is something that all men question when they face real life death situations.

So as a Christian soldier and having a personal relationship with God. Prayers go out before any killing. ..To not have to kill anyone nor be killed.


 There are plenty of atheists who have been combat infantrymen. We discussed this at length sometime ago. Ill try to TTT it.
1/9/12 3:53 AM
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Lahi
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I believe Jesus brought God into focus for us; before him we had a much dimmer, more confused idea of who God really was. And one thing Jesus was adamant about was that using violence against one's enemies and oppressors meant being deeply unfaithful to God. He lived and died non-violently, as did many of his followers and those in the early church.

I think the question of what you do when there is no other option is a legitimate one. But I do think Jesus calls us to live as non-violently as possible, and to at least exhaust every other means before using violence,...and to return violence with love rather than with more violence. The Rev has talked about putting as much thought and training into living non-violently as we often to towards living violently, and I think he's right on.

I heard the story recently of some female freedom riders who were arrested, and thrown in a prison somewhere in the south. The guards mistreated them terribly, beat them, and made them dress in burlap, which was hell on their beaten bodies in the terribly hot cell they were crammed into. One of the white women started talking angrily about the guards, how she wanted to get back at them, do to them what they'd done to her. Then one of the black women, who had been treated the worst, said "no. We have to love them, respond to them with kindness, pray for them." She went on to talk about what Christian non-violence really meant. The white lady said it was the first time she had ever seen Christianity as more than just a bunch of ideas and beliefs about God and Heaven.

I'm sure I couldn't have that kind of love without supernatural help. But I hear stuff like that and it makes me question what it means to live non-violently. And I think its exactly what Jesus taught, and lived.
1/9/12 1:57 PM
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Lahi
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Maybe its not fair to say we had a "much dimmer, more confused" idea of God before Jesus, but I think he did bring some things into sharper focus, and subverted a lot of traditional understandings about who God was, violence being one example.
1/10/12 2:58 AM
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Lahi
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I don't think everything Jesus said always applies to everyone the same way in every situation. Even in his ministry we can see that this wasn't the case.

But he did come to show us how to love. As far as loving our enemies, and not responding to them with violence, he didn't just teach the apostles this, but also large crowds during the Sermon on the Mount.

He was talking to people who were being violently oppressed by a foreign power, and some of them believed that the right response was armed revolution. As I mentioned before, I think what you do when there are no other options is a legit question. But if we're looking at these situations through the lens of Jesus' life and teachings (I don't mean just a few rules he gave someone here or there, but the whole Revelation he came to give), there is a consistent theme of responding to hatred with love and mercy. The apostles and the early church continued to believe in practicing non-violence towards their enemies.

I don't see it as following a set of rules, but more as something to be worked out in Christian community, with the life of Jesus as the guiding principle. And doing this I think its very hard to get around Jesus' call to face violence head on, but to face it with love rather than with more violence.

1/10/12 3:05 AM
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Lahi
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I also don't think the Apostles saw what they were doing so much as starting a new religion, as beginning to establish the literal Kingdom of God here on earth...and Jesus seemed intent on this Kingdom not being established through the violence of His followers.
1/10/12 10:49 AM
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reverend john
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very nicely said Lahi

rev
1/12/12 1:45 PM
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mmanthebay
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colubrid1 - Did Peter repent after he cut the ear off the slave in Gethsenemi?
Peter was not a soldier. One job of a soldier is to fight battles when ordered, in battles people are killed. I'd say that the bible teaches that we should do our jobs to the best of our ability. it also teaches to be obedient to those in authority. Phone Post
1/12/12 1:48 PM
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mmanthebay
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However, if a soldier murdering people (killing outside the scope of his mission objective, I'd question if Jesus is in his heart. Look at David's life. Phone Post
1/12/12 4:24 PM
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Pokanghoya
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Maybe his god could kill one of his sons to get even like he did with David.
1/12/12 6:24 PM
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tomp6581
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UGCTT_UncleCreepyIsTheMotherFreakingGOAT - <---SEMI TROLL....ONLY SEMI,VTHO.
Honestly. I want trolling. Check my post history... I never make troll threads. I just think its an interesting point. Phone Post
1/12/12 11:32 PM
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OneScoup
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UGCTT_UncleCreepyIsTheMotherFreakingGOAT - You realize god will and has lead to victory the largest, bloodiest, mercilous wars to ever exist, right? In which god himself said to kill every man, woman, child...and infant you find. It is LITERALLY a sin not to kill people who opposed the word.


Wow, if that's true you belong to sick fucking religion which I hope goes extinct. That said I hope this is not a real legitimate christian interpretation of the bible.
1/13/12 1:14 AM
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Greedo the Guido
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If you're on the other end of the mighty christian blade you will burn in hell and for every victim fallen to that blade that is just one more whore the mighty son has waiting on him.
1/13/12 12:19 PM
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reverend john
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mmanthebay - 
colubrid1 - Did Peter repent after he cut the ear off the slave in Gethsenemi?
Peter was not a soldier. One job of a soldier is to fight battles when ordered, in battles people are killed. I'd say that the bible teaches that we should do our jobs to the best of our ability. it also teaches to be obedient to those in authority. Phone Post


Bullshit, everyone of the disciples was murdered (except John) for not obeying authority, including Paul. There are countless stories of early Christians realizing that to follow Christ meant not obeying authorities and they died because of it. Jesus does not teach us to obey the authorities but to defy them as they oppress, injure and hurt others.

rev
1/13/12 3:14 PM
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mmanthebay
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reverend john -
mmanthebay - 
colubrid1 - Did Peter repent after he cut the ear off the slave in Gethsenemi?
Peter was not a soldier. One job of a soldier is to fight battles when ordered, in battles people are killed. I'd say that the bible teaches that we should do our jobs to the best of our ability. it also teaches to be obedient to those in authority. Phone Post


Bullshit, everyone of the disciples was murdered (except John) for not obeying authority, including Paul. There are countless stories of early Christians realizing that to follow Christ meant not obeying authorities and they died because of it. Jesus does not teach us to obey the authorities but to defy them as they oppress, injure and hurt others.

rev
By authority I mean those in authority over you. As in supervisor, boss, mentor. I'm not talking about opposing a Roman tyrant Phone Post
1/13/12 3:18 PM
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mmanthebay
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reverend john -
mmanthebay - 
colubrid1 - Did Peter repent after he cut the ear off the slave in Gethsenemi?
Peter was not a soldier. One job of a soldier is to fight battles when ordered, in battles people are killed. I'd say that the bible teaches that we should do our jobs to the best of our ability. it also teaches to be obedient to those in authority. Phone Post


Bullshit, everyone of the disciples was murdered (except John) for not obeying authority, including Paul. There are countless stories of early Christians realizing that to follow Christ meant not obeying authorities and they died because of it. Jesus does not teach us to obey the authorities but to defy them as they oppress, injure and hurt others.

rev
btw, where does Jesus teach us to defy authorities that oppress, and harm others? Phone Post
1/13/12 6:46 PM
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Lahi
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Just some food for thought for this discussion. Pastor Greg Boyd from a "God's Warriors" segment on CNN. They start off talking about his theology in general, but get more into war and politics a few minutes in. Worth watching IMO even if you don't agree:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUMU1rQSrmI
1/13/12 6:47 PM
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Lahi
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If there are any merciful blue namers:)

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hUMU1rQSrmI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
1/13/12 8:47 PM
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Ali
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Lahi -- I take no responsibility, because I have no idea what you're getting me into. BUT... I trust you! One of my favorite posters, here. SO... that said... :

1/13/12 8:55 PM
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Lahi
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Thanks Ali very kind of you:)

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