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UnderGround Forums >> Erick Silva paid win bonus, UFC open to appeal


1/15/12 11:28 AM
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Underground News
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Welterweight Erick Silva is a spectacular fighter. In his UFC debut at UFC 134 in Rio, it took 40 seconds to knock out opponent Luis Ramos Do Nascimento. Four and a half months later he came back and did it again, knocking out Carlo Prater in even less time.

But then it got complicated.

Referee Mario Yamasaki determined that Silva threw illegal blow or blows to the back of the head, and disqualified Silva, awarding the bout to Prater.

A replay - not available to Yamasaki - appeared to show that the blows landed to the side of the head, depending upon the definition of "back of the head" in use.

In the past there have been multiple definitions of what constitutes the back of the head. One is the "Mohaw/Cell phone" standard, by which you start at the top of the crown, and slide a cell phone down the back - that area - roughly one inch on either side of an imaginary line down the back of the head is off limits. The "Headphones" standard is another - strikes are prohibited to any location that would be behind a pair of headphones worn on the head.

In 2009 the Asociation of Boxing Comissions adopted a definition of back of the head that combines both standards. The new rule uses the mohawk definition towards the top of the head, and widens the prohibited striking area towards the base of the neck:

The Committee has found a compromise between the Mohawk definition and the headphones definition. The Committee recommends a nape of the neck definition. Basically, the group concluded that a strike that touches the ear is generally acceptable. Strikes are not permissible in the nape of the neck area up until the top of the ears. Above the ears, permissible strikes do not include the Mohawk area from the top of the ears up until the crown of the head. The crown of the head is found where the head begins to curve. In other words, strikes behind the crown of the head and above the ears are not permissible within the Mohawk area. Strikes below the top of the ear are not permissible within the nape of the neck area.

The new rule can be summed up pretty simply - if you are hitting the back of the head, at least part of your glove has to be touching his ear. There is a further sometimes complication consideration - the opponent has a responsibility to not turn the back of his head into an incoming strike that would otherwise have landed legally.

When a clearly upset Rogan showed the replay to Yamasaki, the referee did not offer a compelling explanation for or defense of the call.

At the post-fight press con UFC president Dana White said Silva will receive his win bonus despite being saddled with a disqualification loss. "We're going to pay him like he won the fight," White said.

Silva has the right to appeal the disqualification. As Brazil does not currently regulate Mixed Martial Arts, Marc Ratner, former Executive Director of the Nevada State Athletic Commission and current Vice President of Regulatory Affairs with the UFC oversees those duties.

"I would appeal it if I was him," said White. "The thing is that when you do it, Ratner is the guy to talk to about this. We try to run things the way that they're supposed to be run, like the athletic commission would."

"Listen, there are refs out there like Steve Mazzagatti that are just plain bad. He's a bad ref. He's got no business in the ring. But you've got guys like Mario Yamasaki and some of the other guys that are going to make mistakes. There's nothing wrong with making mistakes. There's nothing wrong. We're f------- human. We're going to do it. But you have to be able to go back and say, 'We made a mistake. Here's the proof. Let's overturn it.'"

Rather than blame Yamasaki, who is one of the leading refs in the sport and one of just a handful recognized by the Association of Boxing Commissions as a qualified referee instructor, White turned his ire on the lack of instrant replay.

"It drives me crazy," White said. "It drives me f------- crazy. Every other sport has instant replay.

Dana White is right. UFC 142 may prove to be a momentous event. Instant replay has to become available to officials.

And something has to be done about weight cutting in MMA, before someone dies.

Read entire article...


1/15/12 11:30 AM
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sockeye
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cry me a storm uncle Dana
1/15/12 11:31 AM
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LayNprayNINJA
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 Excellent news.

Looks like Zuffa may look into instant replay.....which will bring up a TON of questions/issues about how to use it, but ultimately will be a good thing if they can get it right.
1/15/12 11:44 AM
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Hansumboy
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As usual Dana mixed Mazzagatti into things, even though he had nothing to do with the case. I wonder what Steve did to piss Dana off like that.
1/15/12 11:53 AM
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Rumblefish
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There WERE some strikes to the back of the head. Do people really not see that?????
1/15/12 11:54 AM
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Jump Kick
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 I wish Dana would do something about the weight cutting issue too, more than just cutting AJ, which was the right move.  I don;t even think he's spoken about it as being a problem.

-jk
1/15/12 12:12 PM
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Illidan
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Good ref - bad call
And I hope Erik Silva gets a win somehow out of this. This kid got crazy potential Phone Post
1/15/12 12:21 PM
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Palmala Handerson
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I've only seen the GIF but it looks like he's jack hammering him in the brain stem.

Maybe Yamasaki was right
1/15/12 12:24 PM
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orcus
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Rumblefish - There WERE some strikes to the back of the head. Do people really not see that?????

 It was the same as EVERY other ground flurry we ever see in the sport. Clearly not targeting the back of the head, just pounding on a turtling, ducking, turning, falling opponent.

If they're going to make it so you have no legal targets on a downed, turtling opponent, they should just say fuck it and call it a checkmate when an opponent does that and declare the other guy the winner automatically.
1/15/12 12:30 PM
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DIZZZLE
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 isn't the back of the head considered anything behind the ears? you draw a line from behind the ears to the top of your head.. like you are wearing headphones.

most of those shots were behind that line
1/15/12 12:36 PM
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Immaculata
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Good.
1/15/12 12:39 PM
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GaGas Soldier
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the idiot who think that was a good call are going to ruin the sport
1/15/12 12:39 PM
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Chris27
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LOL at some of you people, if we DQ every fighter who lands a single shot to the back of the head think about how that would be.

The sport would be shit, you wouldnt watch finishes cause you know some bullshit would happen, fighters wouldnt even try to finish they would rather get the decision so they win, why drop someone land one shot to the back of the head and get DQ'd.

Silva won that fight, it was clean, Mario fucked up.
1/15/12 12:47 PM
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Bukkake
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Is it the athletic commissions or the UFC that would handle the implementation of instant replay? Phone Post
1/15/12 12:55 PM
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5 Round Main Event
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Regardless of how you feel about the disqualification, the problem is that MANY other fighters were awarded victories for fight ending flurries that were much worse than what Erick did.

For god sakes how many times would Vitor have been DQ'd if we used the same criteria as the Erick Silva fight.

I saw one punch that actually legitimately hit the back of the head. That punch came just as Mario was about to stop (or DQ) the fight. It was already over.
1/15/12 1:16 PM
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rockyrocks90
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i feel bad for silva and yamasaki. Silva was clearly the better fighter and won the fight quickly. Yamasaki made a judgement call, the same judgement calls are made in every othr sport on the planet but they are usually corrected by instant replay( except for a certain handball in france). it looked like to me yamasaki realized he made a bad call in the replay and it has to be the worst feeling in the world. Awesome move by Joe for interviewing him afterwards though and bringing that reaction to light.
1/15/12 1:16 PM
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rockyrocks90
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i feel bad for silva and yamasaki. Silva was clearly the better fighter and won the fight quickly. Yamasaki made a judgement call, the same judgement calls are made in every othr sport on the planet but they are usually corrected by instant replay( except for a certain handball in france). it looked like to me yamasaki realized he made a bad call in the replay and it has to be the worst feeling in the world. Awesome move by Joe for interviewing him afterwards though and bringing that reaction to light.
1/15/12 1:31 PM
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bonersaurus
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orcus -
Rumblefish - There WERE some strikes to the back of the head. Do people really not see that?????

 It was the same as EVERY other ground flurry we ever see in the sport. Clearly not targeting the back of the head, just pounding on a turtling, ducking, turning, falling opponent.

If they're going to make it so you have no legal targets on a downed, turtling opponent, they should just say fuck it and call it a checkmate when an opponent does that and declare the other guy the winner automatically.
This is stated perfectly. Once a guy turtles and earmuffs you might as well call it, if you are going to dq people for what Silva did. Phone Post
1/15/12 1:37 PM
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Kirik
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Bukkake -  Is it the athletic commissions or the UFC that would handle the implementation of instant replay? Phone Post

 AC.

If UFC had its way, you would not see Mazzagatti reffing, but they don't.
1/15/12 1:38 PM
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Waterbottle
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Rumblefish - There WERE some strikes to the back of the head. Do people really not see that?????


This. I hate to see a fight end like this but some of those shots were in the back of the head. Fight should be a no contest if a fighter can't continue, not a DQ.
1/15/12 1:45 PM
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UGCTT_Fraser_Finlay
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Good news. Hopefully the bullshit DQ gets overturned. Phone Post
1/15/12 1:56 PM
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Deputy Porker
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ya man but a no contest would be no better in this case he was clearly landing to the side of the head then carlo praters head movement and lack of defense that caused it not an intentional shot to the back of the head mario should of been able to overturn it right after watching a replay
1/15/12 1:58 PM
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Humphrey
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you do realize that the UFC doesn't have any control over instant replays except in places that don't have commissions right?

wow.
1/15/12 2:16 PM
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BLACK and BLUE Comic
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grimsgrindgg - At least Dana recognizes that Mazzagatti is a horrible ref just like Yamasaki...2 worst refs in the history of Mixed Martial Arts...
No way man, Yamasaki is usually the best ref imo.  He just had an off fight.  
 
1/15/12 2:33 PM
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Rumblefish
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orcus - 
Rumblefish - There WERE some strikes to the back of the head. Do people really not see that?????

 It was the same as EVERY other ground flurry we ever see in the sport. Clearly not targeting the back of the head, just pounding on a turtling, ducking, turning, falling opponent.

If they're going to make it so you have no legal targets on a downed, turtling opponent, they should just say fuck it and call it a checkmate when an opponent does that and declare the other guy the winner automatically.



What youre saying is absolutely right, and I AGREE with you.

HOWEVER--that doesnt mean th ref was WRONG for enforcing the rule. ***The problem is with the RULE itself.
**AND-- KNOWING this rule ahead of time, the burden falls on the fighter to find a different way to strike or attack once IN that situation.

Again, its a dumb rule, bit the ref doesnt make the rule

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