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UnderGround Forums >> Daniel Cormier: Best Wrestler in MMA


1/19/12 5:02 AM
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rosario00
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Lmao it's pathetic how much dickriding Cormier has been getting considering he hasn't really

A) done much
B) really shown his wrestling

He destroyed big foot with his hands, and beat the can known as Monson

Jon Jones's MMA wrestling is better, as is Chael Sonnen's especially considering that they illustrate it's effectiveness against UFC fighters Phone Post
1/19/12 5:10 AM
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ABE FROMAN
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 He may be the best wrestler but he hasn't 'displayed' it more than the top wrestlers in MMA.
1/19/12 6:07 AM
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BooZe
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UGCTT_Harlem -  Jones has shown great wrestling by not even letting anyone wrestle with him.... He has eliminated the grappling aspect of EVERY fighter he has faced.

- Hamill is a legit wrestler and he was outclassed.
- Bader is a legit wrestler and he was overwhelmed.
- Then you look at Jones' defeat of Shogun and think... What's next?

Tito didn't manhandle Bader, he dropped him. Big difference. Jones is a great example of how a very good wrestler can combine that skillset, judo, muay thai and  many other aspects and make it look effortless.

If anyone has earned the prodigy title lately... it would be jones. I would even be willing to say that Cormier gets manhandled by Jones whenever he decides to move up to Heavyweight.
I totally agree with you but, what I meant was Jones having great TDD doesn't make him a good wrestler right? His take downs have came mostly from the clinch and from throws. I can't even recall him "shooting" for a double? Phone Post
1/19/12 7:24 AM
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Slapsymaxi
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rosario00 - Lmao it's pathetic how much dickriding Cormier has been getting considering he hasn't really

A) done much
B) really shown his wrestling

He destroyed big foot with his hands, and beat the can known as Monson

Jon Jones's MMA wrestling is better, as is Chael Sonnen's especially considering that they illustrate it's effectiveness against UFC fighters Phone Post
More than that, Cormier had a ton of trouble with Devin Cole and hasn't shown a ton of wrestling since that fight..

Max Phone Post
1/19/12 7:24 AM
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JohnnyChrist
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Didn't Jon Jones face Ben Askren in a wrestling match when Jones was quite young and Jones beat Askren?

I think people overvalue credentials often, but I agree OP that Cormier is a great fighter, and I think he'll win the SF GP which would be awesome considering he didn't even start in it.
1/19/12 7:26 AM
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JohnnyChrist
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As for MMA wrestling...

I don't think anyone's shown better MMA wrestling than GSP, have they? Jon Jones certainly has the potential to go down as the premier MMA wrestler when it's all said and done though.
1/19/12 7:26 AM
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RICKYB
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UGCTT_Harlem -  Jon Jones might disagree with that statement.... He's man-handled well decorated wrestlers.
Agree Phone Post
1/19/12 10:31 AM
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ThePoopWizard
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JohnnyChrist - Didn't Jon Jones face Ben Askren in a wrestling match when Jones was quite young and Jones beat Askren?

I think people overvalue credentials often, but I agree OP that Cormier is a great fighter, and I think he'll win the SF GP which would be awesome considering he didn't even start in it.
Isn't Askeren a welterweight??? Thanks Phone Post
1/19/12 10:42 AM
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T Bag
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JohnnyChrist - Didn't Jon Jones face Ben Askren in a wrestling match when Jones was quite young and Jones beat Askren?

I think people overvalue credentials often, but I agree OP that Cormier is a great fighter, and I think he'll win the SF GP which would be awesome considering he didn't even start in it.
It was Ben's brother Max I believe..
Max is a great all-american wrestler in his won right
 
1/19/12 10:43 AM
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Slowshot
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BooZe -I totally agree with you but, what I meant was Jones having great TDD doesn't make him a good wrestler right? His take downs have came mostly from the clinch and from throws. I can't even recall him "shooting" for a double?


.......you know that wrestling is more than shooting for doubles, right?

Do you understand that takedowns from the clinch and throws are integral parts of wrestling, especially greco?

I'd argue that the MOST important part of wrestling in MMA isn't even the takedown, it's the ground control.

IMO, the fact that American folkstyle wrestling emphasizes ground control MUCH more than the international styles is part of the reason that American wrestlers have been so much more successful than international wrestlers (and yes, I know, it's also because international wrestlers haven't entered MMA as much)
1/19/12 11:04 AM
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sarcotraps
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BooZe - 
UGCTT_Harlem -  Jones has shown great wrestling by not even letting anyone wrestle with him.... He has eliminated the grappling aspect of EVERY fighter he has faced.

- Hamill is a legit wrestler and he was outclassed.
- Bader is a legit wrestler and he was overwhelmed.
- Then you look at Jones' defeat of Shogun and think... What's next?

Tito didn't manhandle Bader, he dropped him. Big difference. Jones is a great example of how a very good wrestler can combine that skillset, judo, muay thai and  many other aspects and make it look effortless.

If anyone has earned the prodigy title lately... it would be jones. I would even be willing to say that Cormier gets manhandled by Jones whenever he decides to move up to Heavyweight.
I totally agree with you but, what I meant was Jones having great TDD doesn't make him a good wrestler right? His take downs have came mostly from the clinch and from throws. I can't even recall him "shooting" for a double? <img src="/images/phone/droid.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>

He shot for the double against the Janitor and that was the beginning of the end for the janitor.
1/19/12 11:08 AM
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BooZe
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Well then I am corrected Phone Post
1/19/12 11:15 AM
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Moist Gracie
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 Lots of interesting arguements here. One person I did forget about was Askren. I would definitely say he's up near the top because he's successfully integrated BJJ into his game. He's going to be one of the best grapplers overall in MMA, his BJJ will be sick.

I think the problem remains that Cormier hasn't fought any high level opponents except Silva. Jones has definitely proved he can dominate the best wrestlers. But so far, against lesser opponents, Cormier has without a doubt shown the widest array of skills. You can't watch his fights without noticing how amazing his wrestling is.

I definitely don't think there's a "clear cut" best, just my opinion. Cormier is definitely fun as fuck to watch though, because of his striking as well as wrestling. I think by this time next year he'll be fighting for the UFC championship.
1/19/12 11:36 AM
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DaemonDragon
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Cormier is not the P4P best wrestler, but he'd very likely outwrestle everyone in MMA in absolute terms, probably including Cain. Dan probably has some of the best TDD in MMA history in absolute terms.
UGCTT_Harlem -  I would even be willing to say that Cormier gets manhandled by Jones whenever he decides to move up to Heavyweight.

I agree with most of what you said but "crazy" doesn't even begin to describe this. He struggled with Rampage but he'd manhandle Cormier? That's batshit insane, fit yourself for a straight jacket talk.
1/19/12 11:52 AM
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PointyShinyBurn
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IMO, the fact that American folkstyle wrestling emphasizes ground control MUCH more than the international styles is part of the reason that American wrestlers have been so much more successful than international wrestlers
Worth mentioning that GSP's wrestling training is all freestyle.
1/19/12 12:00 PM
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panic686
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DanHendersonsAsymetricSmile - anyone has other good HL that song is horrendous



Haha I kind of like the song
1/19/12 12:02 PM
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ThePoopWizard
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PointyShinyBurn -
IMO, the fact that American folkstyle wrestling emphasizes ground control MUCH more than the international styles is part of the reason that American wrestlers have been so much more successful than international wrestlers
Worth mentioning that GSP's wrestling training is all freestyle.
All? I know that's not true. He's enough in d1 wrestlers Phone Post
1/19/12 12:47 PM
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WhiteMustang
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Team Quest, Owner
This is great thread that makes no sense! Phone Post
1/19/12 1:18 PM
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ds1970
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ThePoopWizard -
UGCTT_Harlem -  Jon Jones might disagree with that statement.... He's man-handled well decorated wrestlers.
No he hasn't. After surviving my butt hurtness Jose Aldo is much more inpressive. Defensive wrestling wise. And gsps has better mma wrestling. Out of the last three lhw champions only one is a wrestler. Jones. Of those he has fought in the ufc only two were wrestlers. Obrien and hammil? Right not in the ufc Phone Post
Jones also fought Bader who is a wrestler Phone Post
1/19/12 5:32 PM
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JohnnyChrist
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ThePoopWizard - 
JohnnyChrist - Didn't Jon Jones face Ben Askren in a wrestling match when Jones was quite young and Jones beat Askren?

I think people overvalue credentials often, but I agree OP that Cormier is a great fighter, and I think he'll win the SF GP which would be awesome considering he didn't even start in it.
Isn't Askeren a welterweight??? Thanks <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


You know about the natural process of growing up where you might be a smaller person one year but in a couple of years you grow into your body and gain weight? Thanks.


T Bag - 
JohnnyChrist - Didn't Jon Jones face Ben Askren in a wrestling match when Jones was quite young and Jones beat Askren?

I think people overvalue credentials often, but I agree OP that Cormier is a great fighter, and I think he'll win the SF GP which would be awesome considering he didn't even start in it.
It was Ben's brother Max I believe..
Max is a great all-american wrestler in his won right
 


Oh ok thanks.
5/21/12 11:44 AM
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Moist Gracie
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 signed. again.
5/21/12 11:48 AM
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IGOTBELCHED
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Sonnen i think has shown the best wrestling, his stand-up isn't the best yet he just charges through guys and takes them down with a variety of finishes and his opponents don't get up. Cormier without a doubt along with romero and vila are the the best wrestlers currently competing in mma.
5/21/12 11:55 AM
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BigWilliam
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There are people with better credentials than Cormier. Forum favorite ben asrken for one and Kamal Shalarous for another.
5/21/12 11:57 AM
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IGOTBELCHED
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BigWilliam - There are people with better credentials than Cormier. Forum favorite ben asrken for one and Kamal Shalarous for another.

I hope your joking neither kamal or askren have credentials near cormier, kamal isn't even a decent international wrestler.
5/21/12 12:24 PM
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Moist Gracie
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IGOTBELCHED - 
BigWilliam - There are people with better credentials than Cormier. Forum favorite ben asrken for one and Kamal Shalarous for another.

I hope your joking neither kamal or askren have credentials near cormier, kamal isn't even a decent international wrestler.
In all fairness Askren did better collegiately, while Cormier was better on the world level. Collegiate style translates a bit better into MMA imo.

However, I'm arguing that Cormier has the widest array of skills in MMA. He can do it all, and makes it look effortlessly. He was snapping Barnett down and moving him like a ragdoll.
 

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