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S&C UnderGround >> 5/3/1 is awesome


3/7/12 11:39 AM
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felix1985
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Sudo21 - I'm in second week of my first four week cycle. I'm doing it i mornings monday - tuesday - thursday - friday, or monday-tuesday-wednesday-friday. Depends on time.

I'm really tired because i also have 4 times a week MMA training at evening (monday, wednesday and friday + one day at weekend).

Should i do just one assistance work exerceise, maybe none? I can't get enough rest because of college and work obligations, so that's the main problem for me.
I'd say do the big 4 lifts y nada mas. With the MMA training youre doing it wouldn't be hard to burn out. Phone Post
3/7/12 1:29 PM
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Sudo21
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felix1985 - 
Sudo21 - I'm in second week of my first four week cycle. I'm doing it i mornings monday - tuesday - thursday - friday, or monday-tuesday-wednesday-friday. Depends on time.

I'm really tired because i also have 4 times a week MMA training at evening (monday, wednesday and friday + one day at weekend).

Should i do just one assistance work exerceise, maybe none? I can't get enough rest because of college and work obligations, so that's the main problem for me.
I'd say do the big 4 lifts y nada mas. With the MMA training youre doing it wouldn't be hard to burn out. Phone Post


Thanks, will try something like that and i will post results of it.
3/8/12 4:02 PM
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Ninjaplata
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page 4!
3/8/12 7:17 PM
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felix1985
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Ok you guys, I'm going to give you the scoop on my progress. As I may have mentioned somewhere in this thread. I'm coming off of a 7 month layoff where I not only did nearly nothing physical but i also ate like abolute dog shit. i just got back in the gym about 3 weeks ago and started 5/3/1. I took the first day back and just tested to figure my maxes. I will list them exactly as I figured them. No exaggeration. A few may actually be rounded down.
These are the numbers I based my training max off of.

Squat: 157.5 (135x5)
Dead: 228 (185x7)
Press:120 (95x8)
Bench:196 (155x8)

I just finished week 3 of wave 1. I'm basically doing the triumvirate workout. Next week is my first deload. Listed are my max week 3 lifts.

Squat: 135x18=215
Dead: 195x15=291.5
Press: 102.5x11=139.5
Bench: 167.5x13=239.5

Although I am impressed with my progress so far, I'm not at all trying to brag here. Obviously these lifts are weak especially compared to what I've done in the past. I'm just trying to show the progress that can be made if this program is followed as prescribed.

Having said all that, I'm fired up for wave 2.

Happy lifting.
3/8/12 10:26 PM
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Jacks Wasted Life
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felix1985 - Ok you guys, I'm going to give you the scoop on my progress. As I may have mentioned somewhere in this thread. I'm coming off of a 7 month layoff where I not only did nearly nothing physical but i also ate like abolute dog shit. i just got back in the gym about 3 weeks ago and started 5/3/1. I took the first day back and just tested to figure my maxes. I will list them exactly as I figured them. No exaggeration. A few may actually be rounded down.
These are the numbers I based my training max off of.

Squat: 157.5 (135x5)
Dead: 228 (185x7)
Press:120 (95x8)
Bench:196 (155x8)

I just finished week 3 of wave 1. I'm basically doing the triumvirate workout. Next week is my first deload. Listed are my max week 3 lifts.

Squat: 135x18=215
Dead: 195x15=291.5
Press: 102.5x11=139.5
Bench: 167.5x13=239.5

Although I am impressed with my progress so far, I'm not at all trying to brag here. Obviously these lifts are weak especially compared to what I've done in the past. I'm just trying to show the progress that can be made if this program is followed as prescribed.

Having said all that, I'm fired up for wave 2.

Happy lifting.
Great work so far - keep it up! One thing to keep in mind though as far as estimating your maxes...in my experience a 5 rep max calculates pretty close to an accurate 1 rep max (using a max calculator) but the higher the reps you use to calculate, the less accurate the calculators are.

I calculated an artificially high 1RM based on my 10 rep max that was at least 15 pounds heavier than what I could actually.do when I got under the bar. Phone Post
3/9/12 6:22 AM
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felix1985
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Yeah I know a calculated max can be inaccurate but it's all I've got to go off of for now. I'm going to complete 3 or 4 waves before I retry my true maxes. Phone Post
3/16/12 7:24 AM
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felix1985
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I've got a question for the experienced 5/3/1/ guys.

Here's my dilemma. Sorry for the frat.

I just finished up my first wave of 5/3/1/ including the deload. After having taken a long layoff from the gym, I've experienced that initial spike in strength that most beginners get when they first start. Realistically my dead and squat has went up 50-60 pounds. My bench went up probably 30 pounds. And my press 20-25. Now, don't get me wrong this is a good problem to have, but I think the 5-10 pound prescribed increase for upper/lower body moves is not enough. I've got the 5/3/1 app on my phone that calculates all my new percentages for wave 2 and I really think they are too low for me to get much out of them.

For example, for my week 3 of wave 1 squat workout on my final, all-out set I did 135x18 (95%). Well, I looked at my numbers for squat week 1 of wave 2 and it says my third set will be with 127.5 (85%). I'll likely get 25-30 reps with that wait if i'm going to go more or less all out. To me it seems that anything over about 20 reps is just wasted energy seeing as the goal is to get stronger.

So, Do you guys think I should re-test my maxes to compensate for the beginner's strength spike I just went through so that I'm getting the full benefit of the program or proceed as prescribed?
3/16/12 12:11 PM
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TheRealJoker
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Gonna try this!!! Phone Post
3/16/12 12:46 PM
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Leigh
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I jumped the gap if I made big strength gains and increased by more than 5 and 10lbs. Maybe there is a reason for it though, I haven't read the book
3/16/12 3:37 PM
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felix1985
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Ttt Phone Post
3/16/12 9:03 PM
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ravenman2000
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Edited: 03/16/12 9:10 PM
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 Felix, I'd say there are two options.  One is switch to a program that gives you weekly increases of 5lbs/10lbs (or even 5/10lbs each workout where you do that lift again) instead of only 5/10 per month like Wendler, so that you can maximize your beginner gains; then go to Wendler in a few months or a year when you can't make that kind of progress any longer.  After all, why make really slow gains if you are capable of making really fast gains?  That's the difference between a beginner program (fast, aggressive progression) and an intermediate program like Wendler (for when you are advanced to the point that you are happy to get any gains at all, so slower progression is planned).

The second option would be, if you feel you have already maxed out your beginner gains in the last four weeks, then just take a week to re-test your new maxes, and start the program fresh with those numbers (using 95% of your real max as your first cycle's training max, and building up from there).
 
3/17/12 12:37 AM
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tylery101
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Quick question, when you guys do overhead press do you do standing or seated? Phone Post
3/17/12 2:33 AM
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felix1985
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tylery101 - Quick question, when you guys do overhead press do you do standing or seated? Phone Post
Unless you carry a purse, do them standing. Phone Post
3/17/12 2:38 AM
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felix1985
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ravenman2000 -  Felix, I'd say there are two options.  One is switch to a program that gives you weekly increases of 5lbs/10lbs (or even 5/10lbs each workout where you do that lift again) instead of only 5/10 per month like Wendler, so that you can maximize your beginner gains; then go to Wendler in a few months or a year when you can't make that kind of progress any longer.  After all, why make really slow gains if you are capable of making really fast gains?  That's the difference between a beginner program (fast, aggressive progression) and an intermediate program like Wendler (for when you are advanced to the point that you are happy to get any gains at all, so slower progression is planned).

The second option would be, if you feel you have already maxed out your beginner gains in the last four weeks, then just take a week to re-test your new maxes, and start the program fresh with those numbers (using 95% of your real max as your first cycle's training max, and building up from there).
 
Thanks for the advice. I think what I'm gonna do is instead of a 5/10 increase for wave 2, I'm gonna go with a 10/20. Maybe even a 15/25. I want to make sure I'm lifting heavy but not over do it either. I really like 5/3/1 and I want to make it work. Phone Post
3/17/12 6:11 AM
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spidermanik
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But surely if you are able to do so many reps on the third set, then your max is waaay too low?

Perhaps work on figuring out what your genuine max's are, and then use those figures in the program?
3/17/12 6:23 AM
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Leigh
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spidermanik - But surely if you are able to do so many reps on the third set, then your max is waaay too low?

Perhaps work on figuring out what your genuine max's are, and then use those figures in the program?

Are you trolling?
3/17/12 10:11 AM
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spidermanik
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no, why? did I say something really stupidly wrong?
3/17/12 10:50 AM
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Leigh
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No I guess not.

The guy did work out his max I think. He hadn't lifted for ages so he tried his max and it wasn't that high. He then takes 10% off of that and uses that as a max, as per the program, so he's already using an artificially low max. As he starts working out, he gets stronger pretty rapidly, so he didn't do anything "wrong" but he is outgrown the program very quickly.
3/17/12 11:23 AM
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ravenman2000
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 Spidermanik's suggestion is exactly the same as my Option 2 above, and is what I would probably do.  Recalculate your genuine max, and use that to start the program over again.
3/17/12 11:55 AM
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Cheggers
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Sorry if already posted, but what accessory lifts are you doing? I'm
Also doing boring but big in a very loose fashion Phone Post
3/17/12 1:34 PM
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felix1985
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ravenman2000 -  Spidermanik's suggestion is exactly the same as my Option 2 above, and is what I would probably do.  Recalculate your genuine max, and use that to start the program over again.
I'm going to do this tomorrow and see what happens. Phone Post
3/17/12 4:09 PM
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tylery101
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Lmao thanks Felix. It's not a purse, it's a satchel. Indiana Jones has one... Phone Post
3/20/12 12:42 PM
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tylery101
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Just finished 1 cycle doing 3 days a week although I took out overhead press (due to previous injuries) I saw awesome results, 3 weeks ago my 1rm numbers were 275 on bench, 365 on squat, and 405 on deadlift. I maxed yesterday (3 weeks later) and numbers went to 305 on bench with a near miss at 315, 385 on squat, and 475 on deadlift. I realize a lot of this gain can be attributed to lifting heavy again for the first time in 4 years (since a discolated elbow), but I'm still loving the program thus far. Also added 30lbs to my power clean max. Phone Post
3/20/12 12:51 PM
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Leigh
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great stuff! :)
3/20/12 1:09 PM
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felix1985
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tylery101 - Just finished 1 cycle doing 3 days a week although I took out overhead press (due to previous injuries) I saw awesome results, 3 weeks ago my 1rm numbers were 275 on bench, 365 on squat, and 405 on deadlift. I maxed yesterday (3 weeks later) and numbers went to 305 on bench with a near miss at 315, 385 on squat, and 475 on deadlift. I realize a lot of this gain can be attributed to lifting heavy again for the first time in 4 years (since a discolated elbow), but I'm still loving the program thus far. Also added 30lbs to my power clean max. Phone Post
Pretty damn good numbers for not having lifted in 4 years. Phone Post

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