UnderGround Forums
 

UnderGround Forums >> Jeff Monson: It's time for a change

| Share | Email | Subscribe | Check IPs

1/28/12 3:07 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jason73
151 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/15/11
Posts: 699
im a fairly leftist socialist personally and i can agree on some points with monson but he is out to lunch . anarchy doesnt work.its a pipe dream just as much as the far right is. he has some valid views but his more radical statements seem to negate them. i try to like monson but he seems to be all over the map
1/28/12 3:21 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
EvilMaster
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 01/28/12 3:26 PM
Member Since: 5/4/06
Posts: 60404
Say hello to my little friend!
thedudebro - Yeah, this ACTA business is pretty scary. Pretty interesting to see how Obama and some other nations already signed it without formally introducing it.

Last October, Australia, Canada, Japan, South Korea, Morocco, New Zealand, Singapore and the United States secretively and in some cases, illegally signed ACTA.

On January 26th the following secretively signed ACTA. The EU, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxemburg, Malta, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and the United Kingdom.

Though involved in early ACTA negotiations, Switzerland and Mexico have not yet ratified it. However, since the agreement remains open to signature until May 2013, it is possible that other states may make a move to join it as well.

It's a done deal. There is no use crying about it now, it's here and the internet as we know it, is about to be destroyed. All these people screaming about SOPA and PIPA, are just not understanding the situation. SOPA and PIPA were just a smokescreen to get ACTA through without opposition. Worked like a charm. :(
1/28/12 3:24 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
McLeod
97 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 5816
Bisping is going to lose.
1/28/12 3:24 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Filo_Beto
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/24/10
Posts: 229
Munk - "which some rich people pay taxes which can be less then 15%."

stupid


Really, thank you for your lengthy well thought out rebuttal.
1/28/12 3:26 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
RocketsRedglare
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/23/12
Posts: 35
Good, if how we know the internet is as a vehicle for theft of value earned by others. Entitlement society
1/28/12 3:29 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
EvilMaster
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/4/06
Posts: 60405
Say hello to my little friend!
You can say "good" now. But it won't be long until you realize that it is not "good". It is anything but "good".
1/28/12 3:31 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
whoabro
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/22/07
Posts: 7370
andre - I respect the fact that he fights for free rather than for profit. <br><br>Or does he?<br><br>Everyone loves pirating stuff, as long as its not their work that's not getting paid for. <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>

this. how does he expect to get paid if the owners have no revenue streams?
1/28/12 3:32 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
EvilMaster
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 01/28/12 3:40 PM
Member Since: 5/4/06
Posts: 60406
Say hello to my little friend!
Take this website for instance. It's a beautiful community full of people from all around the world who share a common interest in mixed martial arts. We have people from all walks of life on this site, all communicating as equals.

All it could take under ACTA is for one user, to post some copyright material to a thread here. And the whole UG could disappear and Kirik could be thrown in jail and his assets seized. Whether he knew about it or not.

That is the draconian reality of ACTA.
1/28/12 3:33 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
SamboMMA
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/6/08
Posts: 1834
thedudebro - 
UGCTT_molsonmuscle360 - 
Hollywood Blonde - I'm liberal, not leftist. Monson's out to lunch.


I'm a socialist and I think Monson is out to lunch. Dude is fucking bonkers. I'm pretty sure now matter how liberal, or left leaning you are, unless you have gone as far as the "anarchist" crowd, you are going to think Monson is fucking crazy.


Lol who says they are a socialist nowadays? Unless you are from a European country or a Fox News nut.


Look. Its an MSNBC tard.
1/28/12 4:08 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
12SixElbow
707 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/15/09
Posts: 10899
 Monson has always been a cool guy, and always been a little out there.

I remember before I was into MMA I had no clue who he was, and my buddy and I ran into him and Dennis Hallman downtown Olympia and asked them to buy us beer.

1/28/12 4:56 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
SamboMMA
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/6/08
Posts: 1836
thedudebro - 
SamboMMA - 
thedudebro - 
UGCTT_molsonmuscle360 - 
Hollywood Blonde - I'm liberal, not leftist. Monson's out to lunch.


I'm a socialist and I think Monson is out to lunch. Dude is fucking bonkers. I'm pretty sure now matter how liberal, or left leaning you are, unless you have gone as far as the "anarchist" crowd, you are going to think Monson is fucking crazy.


Lol who says they are a socialist nowadays? Unless you are from a European country or a Fox News nut.


Look. Its an MSNBC tard.


Nope, nice try. You are so close though!

Not.

You are just another little punk who posts two sentences and doesn't contribute anything to the conversation. Go now, your mommy is calling.


You haven't contributed anything to this thread either beyond playing the Fox card. Maybe you should practice what you preach first.
1/28/12 5:11 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
EvilMaster
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/4/06
Posts: 60412
Say hello to my little friend!
Wow, this guy ^ doesn't seem to understand how technology works and is firmly planted in denial. That's ok, you will understand it soon enough.
1/28/12 5:18 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Tankhead
109 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/12/06
Posts: 5419
People who fight about news outlets are idiots. Both sides. Why limit your resources for information? Phone Post
1/28/12 5:27 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
stillmatic
51 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/20/08
Posts: 5137
andre -  I respect the fact that he fights for free rather than for profit.

Or does he?

Everyone loves pirating stuff, as long as its not their work that's not getting paid for. Phone Post
Depends what business model you choose to go with.

People pirating stuff in almost all cases wouldn't pay for the product otherwise, at least at the price point that's set.

If you want to go standard route, then you should look at pirating the same way you look at a competitor selling the same product, except it's offered free.  

An alternative route is the Louis CK model.  Put out a comedy special self produced for 170k, sell at 5 bucks a pop with no restrictions on the material.  Wait 12 days and get over 1 million in sales.  Piraters don't want to always get everything for free.  They are very willing to pay for a product they deem worth it's value.


 
1/29/12 2:46 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
mmabbn
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/18/06
Posts: 335
Treasury Secretary Geithner yesterday declined to answer a key question about the president’s proposed “Buffett Rule”: How many millionaires and billionaires pay lower tax rates than middle-income families?

The answer: not that many.

The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center has crunched the numbers and found that Warren Buffett and his secretary are the exception to the rule. For the most part, the wealthy pay a significantly higher percentage of their income in taxes than middle-income workers.

The key numbers: this year those earning over $1 million will pay, on average, 29.1 percent on federal taxes. Those earning between $50,000 and $75,000 will pay 15 percent.

That’s not to say that there aren’t wealthy people who are even better than Buffett at avoiding taxes. In 2009, 1,470 people with incomes over $1 million a year paid absolutely no taxes. But that represents less than 1 percent of those earning over $1 million a year. Raising their taxes may be the fair thing to do, but it will not bring in much revenue.

There were 236,883 taxpayers who earned more than $1 million in 2009. That’s less than two-tenths of one percent of all filers.

The Top 400 tax filers – the very richest Americans – do pay a lower rate of just 18.11 percent of their total income. Why? Many of them are hedge fund managers and people like Buffet — their income is pegged how much their investment fund grows. For some reason, this income is counted as so-called “carried interest” (even though it is not interest at all; it’s more like a performance bonus) and is taxed at the lower 15 percent capital gains rate.

It’s a loophole for hedge managers, pure and simple. But while it may be an outrage that these uber-rich hedge fund managers pay such a low rate compared to the rest of us, there are just not many of them out there.

But the top 400 tax filers represent a tiny sliver – just .00028 percent of all filers. The vast majority of those earning over $1 million a year pay at a higher rate, which is why the average tax rate for this group, according to the Tax Foundation, is 29.1 percent of taxable income. And, yes, this number includes income taxes, payroll taxes and capital gains taxes.

The numbers change a bit if you look at total income before deductions and tax credits (Adjusted Gross Income), according to another non-partisan group, The Tax Foundation. Here’s how the numbers breakdown using IRS data from 2009 on Adjusted Gross Income for the income groups at issue in this discussion:

- $10 million a year paid 22 percent.

- $1 million to $10 million paid 25 percent.

- $50,000 to $75,000 paid 7 percent.

The rate for the middle-income filers drop because many individual deductions and tax credits are phased out for higher income taxpayers.

The Associated Press also has an analysis of the debate.
1/29/12 2:51 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
mmabbn
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/18/06
Posts: 336
"Warren Buffett's secretary shouldn't pay a higher tax rate than Warren Buffett. There is no justification for it," Obama said as he announced his deficit-reduction plan this week. "It is wrong that in the United States of America, a teacher or a nurse or a construction worker who earns $50,000 should pay higher tax rates than somebody pulling in $50 million."

On average, the wealthiest people in America pay a lot more taxes than the middle class or the poor, according to private and government data. They pay at a higher rate, and as a group, they contribute a much larger share of the overall taxes collected by the federal government.

STORY: You might pay less in 2012

The 10% of households with the highest incomes pay more than half of all federal taxes. They pay more than 70% of federal income taxes, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

In his White House address on Monday, Obama called on Congress to increase taxes by $1.5 trillion as part of a 10-year deficit reduction package totaling more than $3 trillion. He proposed that Congress overhaul the tax code and impose what he called the "Buffett rule," named for the billionaire investor.

The rule says, "People making more than $1 million a year should not pay a smaller share of their income in taxes than middle-class families pay." Buffett wrote in a recent piece for The New York Times that the tax rate he paid last year was lower than that paid by any of the other 20 people in his office.

"Middle-class families shouldn't pay higher taxes than millionaires and billionaires," Obama said. "That's pretty straightforward. It's hard to argue against that."

There may be individual millionaires who pay taxes at rates lower than middle-income workers. In 2009, 1,470 households filed tax returns with incomes above $1 million yet paid no federal income tax, according to the Internal Revenue Service. But that's less than 1% of the nearly 237,000 returns with incomes above $1 million.

This year, households making more than $1 million will pay an average 29.1% of their income in federal taxes, including income taxes, payroll taxes and other taxes, according to the Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank.

Households making between $50,000 and $75,000 will pay an average of 15% of their income in federal taxes.

Lower-income households will pay less. For example, households making between $40,000 and $50,000 will pay an average of 12.5% of their income in federal taxes. Households making between $20,000 and $30,000 will pay 5.7%.

The latest IRS figures are a few years older — and limited to federal income taxes — but show much the same thing. In 2009, taxpayers who made $1 million or more paid on average 24.4% of their income in federal income taxes, according to the IRS.

Those making $100,000 to $125,000 paid on average 9.9% in federal income taxes. Those making $50,000 to $60,000 paid an average of 6.3%.

Obama's claim hinges on the fact that, for high-income families and individuals, investment income is often taxed at a lower rate than wages. The top tax rate for dividends and capital gains is 15%. The top marginal tax rate for wages is 35%, though that is reserved for taxable income above $379,150.

With tax rates that high, why do so many people pay at lower rates? Because the tax code is riddled with more than $1 trillion in deductions, exemptions and credits, and they benefit people at every income level, according to data from the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation, Congress' official scorekeeper on revenue issues.

The Tax Policy Center estimates that 46% of households, mostly low- and medium-income households, will pay no federal income taxes this year. Most, however, will pay other taxes, including Social Security payroll taxes.

"People who are doing quite well and worry about low-income people not paying any taxes bemoan the fact that they get so many tax breaks that they are zeroed out," said Roberton Williams, a senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center. "People at the bottom of the distribution say, 'But all of those rich guys are getting bigger tax breaks than we're getting,' which is also the case."

Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner was pressed at a White House briefing on the number of millionaires who pay taxes at a lower rate than middle-income families. He demurred, saying that people who make most of their money in wages pay taxes at a higher rate, while those who get most of their income from investments pay at lower rates.

"So it really depends on what is your profession, where's the source of your income, what's the specific circumstances you face, and the averages won't really capture that," Geithner said.
Copyright 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
For more information about reprints & permissions, visit our FAQ's. To report corrections and clarifications, contact Standards Editor Brent Jones. For publication consideration in the newspaper, send comments to letters@usatoday.com. Include name, phone number, city and state for verification. To view our corrections, go to corrections.usatoday.com.
1/29/12 3:03 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
sparkuri
23 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/4/08
Posts: 7876
thedudebro - I am pretty shocked by these responses.

As a moderate, I for sure see 90% of what he is saying. The last bit about social safety net and people contributing got me ???

Other than that, he seems to be spot on.

Can you people above explain to me what he is a hypocrite, moron, 'out to lunch', bonkers, brain-washed imbecile, etc?

Please feel free to explain yourselves.

 I'm not even gonna read the rest of this thread, because THIS ^ should be the end of it.
VU
1/29/12 3:14 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
knuckleballs
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/2/07
Posts: 1814
The problem is that monson is talking to a bunch of conservative, religious, stupid red necks who make up the majority of the MMA community and this forum.
1/29/12 3:40 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
sparkuri
23 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/4/08
Posts: 7880
knuckleballs - The problem is that monson is talking to a bunch of conservative, religious, stupid red necks who make up the majority of the MMA community and this forum.

 Actually he's talking to an interviewer
1/29/12 3:42 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Shogun121
2 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 01/29/12 3:46 AM
Member Since: 8/30/05
Posts: 2116
I think people need to try to be less biased, whether you believe what others say or not, try to see both sides of the opinion.

We cant be ignorant towards others just because we think there wrong. Both opinions on this matter are very firm without little regard for the other sides opinion.
1/29/12 7:28 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
SamboMMA
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/6/08
Posts: 1838
knuckleballs - The problem is that monson is talking to a bunch of conservative, religious, stupid red necks who make up the majority of the MMA community and this forum.


What?? Most of the forum is Atheist libtards.
1/29/12 9:12 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
SmasherSnu
23 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/2/06
Posts: 2473
the reason a capital gains tax is capped at 15 percent is because that money was already taxed before it was invested, then it gets re-taxed when you make money. so the person investing, whose already payed their taxes on that money, is taking all the risk...but of course the government has to get their cut. if the capital gains tax goes above 20 percent (Obama wants 30 percent) people will stop investing. it wouldnt be worth it. risk/reward would be too high and its stupid that people dont understand that.
1/29/12 9:38 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
HELWIG
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/28/03
Posts: 64480
 did monson just decide to cover himself in as much random shit as possible?
1/29/12 10:30 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jakeb
10 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/28/05
Posts: 81
thedudebro - 
Filo_Beto - 
jakeb - Lol at the rich paying less than everyone else as a percentage. The "rich" pay the vast majority of taxes in this country. The lower 50% pay zero or very little. Get you facts straight. <img src="/images/phone/droid.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


Bingo , you must watch fox. If you are "MAKING that vast majority of ALL THE MONEY" it would be safe to assume that tax revenue would be higher for this group.

But what you don't understand is the percentage at which some rich people pay taxes which can be less then 15%.


Dude I was just gonna say these guys must watch Fox News 24/7. I briefly did my research and the same BS facts came out of Herman Cain and Michelle Bachmann; clearly these people get their info fed from Fox News.

'I'm liberal, not leftist. Monson's out to lunch.'

Who the heck says leftist nowadays other than Fox News viewers?

I don't know if any true liberals or democrats even want to consider themselves as such since the Democratic Party is so WEAK compared to the bully Republicans. No offense but it is true...

Shoulda laid the beatdown on the GOP when they coulda.


No, I never watch Fox and to assume so and call me out doesnt do you any favors when trying to make your point. I totally agree that the tax structure is a complete cluster and we should do away with it in favor of a flat or consumption based tax. But one huge reason so many wealthy americans pay a 15% tax rate is because the capital gains tax rate is 15%. Here is why- 1) the money used to invest (and get the capital gains rate in return) was already taxed once when it was earned as income at the normal progressive rate. 2) Most agree that you want to encourage investing, which allows companies to grow and grow the economy. If you tax the hell out of capital gains this discourages investing.

With regard to your guys arguement about the rich needing to pay more, let me ask you this- If the majority of americans dont pay taxes, and still vote, what do you think this is going to do? Just take a look at the huge waste of money the Bullet Train in California is sucking. Idiot people who have no stake in the game voted it in. Why? Because they dont care who pays for it, its not them. Anyone who works for a living should be scared to death of a majority of people who dont pay taxes voting in policy for the people that do pay taxes.

The folks who seem to have this class warfare mentality always forget about human nature- if you keep punishing the people who produce you discourage production. And with a top heavy tax rate when the people who pay the majority stop producing it causes a huge blow in the gov'ts revenue.

I follow California politics pretty closely and this is exactly what is happening here. You see the same thing happening on the national level more and more.
1/29/12 1:16 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
hubbarocks
24 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/19/11
Posts: 93
Jesus...

As it's already been stated, and is factually correct, CAPITAL GAINS is money that has ALREADY BEEN TAXED once before and is being taxed AGAIN.

Also, to the kids who regurgitate "Some rich people only pay LESS than the average person," that is incorrect.

Here's an example for you:

If YOU make $30,000 a year and pay 20% of that, you'd technically owe $6,000 (and when you take in all the itemized deductions and tax credits (also known as "loopholes")given to the average tax payer, that person ends up paying LESS than what he's "supposed" to pay and sometimes not paying anything, and yet even sometimes RECEIVING money.

If YOU make $30,000,000 a year and pay 15% of that, you'd pay $4,500,000.

So, the "evil" rich person pays MUCH, MUCH more than the guy who made $30K.

The reason that people say the top percentage pays the majority of the taxes, is because it's a FACT. It's not something on "Fox News" that CNN and MSNBC tell you kids and you repeat, it's FACTUALLY accurate information taken DIRECTLY from tax returns filed with the IRS.

And as far as the stupidly-named "Buffett Rule," what all the "news" outlets fail to report is that Warren Buffett's corporation, Berkshire Hathaway, has been fighting MILLIONS owed in back-taxes since 2002. Hell, the Huffington Post had a big story on that and they are a super liberal website. So his cute "We should pay more" bullshit is just that, bullshit. It's just a campaign slogan to get his boys elected so they can continue making him rich. The idea that some of you have that Obama is fighting for you or for the "working man" is comedy. ALL politicians are scumbag liars. ALL of them. No matter what party they fall in. They are all shady, heartless fuckers who just want to stay in power and stay super rich.

| Share | Email | Subscribe | Check IPs

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.