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JKD UnderGround >> Trapping, Wing Chun - is this alive enough?


5/25/12 12:56 PM
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Siciliano
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Cool. You win Widespread Panic.

Seems like you have Dog Brothers experience then. Well I have too. I hope one day we can train together and I'll show you what we mean.
5/25/12 4:20 PM
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WidespreadPanic
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Siciliano - Cool. You win Widespread Panic.

Seems like you have Dog Brothers experience then. Well I have too. I hope one day we can train together and I'll show you what we mean.
Can you send and receive private messages? If so, tell me a little about yourself, I'll give you the real answers on knife play.

 
5/27/12 5:00 AM
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mulder68
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This thread is frightening Phone Post
5/28/12 1:14 PM
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Siciliano
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Will do after June 9. Busy preparing for BJJ comps. Roudn robin submission tourney. Need to lose 6 lbs in 2 weeks. I'll PM you after.

Or better, e-mail me at tobyreyes1@yahoo.com
6/18/12 12:21 PM
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Siciliano
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You know, the funny thing is that each and every doubter we've met would immediately understand what I mean in 5 seconds. So if any of you are into it, visit me here in Vancouver and I'll show you exactly what I mean.

Again, not to knock off stuff I learned from guys like Jerry W, Ray, Marc Scott, etc. - but I liken it to shootwrestling vs BJJ.
6/18/12 12:36 PM
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WidespreadPanic
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Siciliano - You know, the funny thing is that each and every doubter we've met would immediately understand what I mean in 5 seconds. So if any of you are into it, visit me here in Vancouver and I'll show you exactly what I mean.

Again, not to knock off stuff I learned from guys like Jerry W, Ray, Marc Scott, etc. - but I liken it to shootwrestling vs BJJ.

 What is it you're being doubted about?

Have you tried any of your trapping stuff, unrehearsed, against, oh, an average college wrestler? If you're talking about trapping and the close range stuff, and you're not doing it in 'demo mode' (i.e. grab me here), and you try and pull that on a wrestler who is going to be grip fighting, tie-ups, clinches and takedowns, you'll see quite rapidly that any 'trapping' is going to be stuffed. The 'range' collapses against all but another 'trapper fan', who is pretty much letting you get your angles.

Now Roy Harris can do it, but he also has insance skill and reflexes. The proof of it is if the person can teach it to someone else who has low attributes. 
6/18/12 12:41 PM
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Siciliano
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Just visit me and you'll see.

BTW, I don't have much trapping experience. my wrestling is pretty mediocre but my Thai clinch is pretty OK having trained with the national team and Pud Pad Noy Woorawoot.

I have no Wing chun background at all. The first clip is kinda like a "forced range drill". Anyway, hard to explain over words. Like I said, better to experience it live.
6/18/12 3:11 PM
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WidespreadPanic
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If the video is the Coach Carlo and Anthony and you're asking 'is this alive enough', I have some comments.

First, that's not alive at all, it's nothing but a type of hooking drill with a training knife in reverse grip. I'm sure it's 'fun' in a way. But it's not alive, it's a drill. It is somewhat unrehearsed, but it's still 'scripted' in a sense, or confined to certain moves, with some latitude.

If you showed that drill to Ray Floro or James Keating or Mac Mclemore they'd say it's a waste of time, because that's not what you want to be drilling, it's the wrong type of blade, you're not learning any worthwhile footwork, and you'll never find those moves in any fight with a weapon.

I offered to give you an overview of how you really learn knife fighting and you declined. So I'm reluctant to post it here (for one thing it's not my system to reveal). But if you read up on those three guys above it will give you a starting point, minus the footwork part which I figured out.

HTH

6/18/12 3:51 PM
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Siciliano
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I didn't decline. C'mon give me an overview. I even gave my e-mail address there. Tournament's over so I now I have time to partake in a discussion.

tobyreyes1@yahoo.com. Make sure the subject heading doesn't look like spam. Thanks dude.
6/18/12 4:59 PM
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Siciliano
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BTW, I trained with Ray Floro and even represented FFS during the DB Nov Gathering of 2004 FYI.
6/18/12 5:48 PM
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WidespreadPanic
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OK, message sent. Basic Blade concepts I. Thanks for the message.


6/19/12 2:13 PM
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Siciliano
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Reply sent. I think the best way to test this is really via sparring aka "aliveness". This is not a challenge match. We can use padded sticks, etc. No egos. Just to learn and test stuff.

6/19/12 3:20 PM
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WidespreadPanic
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Siciliano - Reply sent. I think the best way to test this is really via sparring aka "aliveness". This is not a challenge match. We can use padded sticks, etc. No egos. Just to learn and test stuff.


No, because that is 'discovery by attributes'. If you can't talk about concepts and understand how things work, then it's meaningless. The Italian and Spanish schools had a very detailed and functional method of getting their teachings across.

I have no desire to take a padded stick and whack anyone. You can feel free to do so, or if you understand concepts and frameworks then we can discuss it. Remember the big thing that everyone liked about Dan Inosanto's first book, The Filipino Martial Arts, was that it was a CONCEPT BOOK, not a series of kata and pictures of calloused fists and feet.

Hope this helps. I think it's pointless to try and give you concepts if you just want to whack away with padded sticks, sorry. :)

6/19/12 3:32 PM
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WidespreadPanic
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 BTW, I have given out the delivery system for that to several people and they said it helped them a lot and it made a lot of sense. You seem to have a good pedigree, and there's a lot for you to work on with the BJJ and Ray's stuff. It's all part of the picture so keep working on what you have. Self-discovery is a great way to figure things out. There is a cohesive framework and a delivery system - keep looking and you'll find it.

6/19/12 4:08 PM
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Siciliano
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Spanish? That's cool. My swordplay is pretty much based on the Spanish system.

Here are some concepts:

1. For the cutting motions and some parries, seems like the fulcrum (or pivot point) of the blade is always at the center.

2. For thrusts the fulcrum is at the tip.

3. Wide movements are a definite taboo.

4. The use of the "alive hand" is basically just an insert to offset your opponents centerline and put you in prime position to finish him off.

5. Protecting your weapon hand is a must. This is done by proper body alignment and posture.

6. The "Retirada" and "Elastico" Footwork buys you time to deliver a counter-attack with one count.

7. There is seldom any blade to blade contact in this system. Parries are done with either the flat or back side of the blade.

8. Counters are 1-count. The parry (defense) and counterstrike (offense) utilizes a single beat.

9. Using your peripheral vision cuts down on reaction time.
6/19/12 4:12 PM
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Siciliano
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Discovery by attributes? Hmmm. Roy Harris first trained with my instructor (50 + yrs old back then and out of shape) in 1998. Romy macapagal is fat, out of shape and would pant heavily after only a few minutes of sparring. that being said, Not once was Roy able to hit my instructor. Check out Roy's My journey to the martial arts article. He mentions it in great detail.

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