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HolyGround >> Our God is an awesome God


3/6/12 12:11 PM
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saemskin
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yes, but where did that hysteria of the trials originate? It originated from the church and their denial and hatred of anything and everything that isn't like them. It's an ongoing problem, not with just christians, but any group.
You must see this?

Of course one must make an atttempt to understand the history and culture of the times for any and all pieces of literature.
But, I'm not talking about that. When I say "magic decoder ring" I am referring to the cop out's that arise when contradictions in the bible get pointed out. When I read something, take it literally in all it's gory detail... I'll say "how can you reconcile god telling you to stone your children for disrespecting their parents".. because that is in the old testament clear as a bell and plain as day. God talking to man, telling him this.

So, magic decoders, analogys, corrollary, whatever.. set it all aside. How can you reconcile the multitude of horrible acts, and horrible behaviors written down in that book? I am not trying to bait you. There is no trap, it's an honest question from (perhaps) one parent to another?
3/6/12 5:21 PM
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DiscipleDojo
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Disciple Dojo, L3C, Founder
saemskin - yes, but where did that hysteria of the trials originate? It originated from the church and their denial and hatred of anything and everything that isn't like them. It's an ongoing problem, not with just christians, but any group.
You must see this?

Of course one must make an atttempt to understand the history and culture of the times for any and all pieces of literature.
But, I'm not talking about that. When I say "magic decoder ring" I am referring to the cop out's that arise when contradictions in the bible get pointed out. When I read something, take it literally in all it's gory detail... I'll say "how can you reconcile god telling you to stone your children for disrespecting their parents".. because that is in the old testament clear as a bell and plain as day. God talking to man, telling him this.

So, magic decoders, analogys, corrollary, whatever.. set it all aside. How can you reconcile the multitude of horrible acts, and horrible behaviors written down in that book? I am not trying to bait you. There is no trap, it's an honest question from (perhaps) one parent to another?

 saemskin,
I see the problem you are pointing out, and I believe it is an innate sinful quality in humanity that manifests itself whenever given the opportunity--that of pride and fear of the unknown/unfamiliar. It has certainly reared its head within Christianity and other religions, but in the case of Christianity (I won't claim to speak for anyone else or any other belief system) it's important to recognize that when it does, it is directly violating the core message of the faith in every way, shape and form. The only people who are duped into accepting it are those who don't know what the true Gospel is (which is many people unfortunately in a civil religion type culture). This often gets dismissed by skeptics as the "no true scotsman" fallacy, but it is not because there is clear moral imperative contained in the call to following Jesus that is not found in the ethnicity of being Scottish (if you're unfamiliar with that charge of fallacy then don't worry about any of that; it's just for those who are).

I would suggest that when Scripture is read in its historical and literary context (which is not a dodge or cop out, but rather simply a responsible reading) the "contradictions" are not there. There may be cultural elements that we in Western post-enlightenment, non-honor/shame cultures are uncomfortable with; but that is due just as much to our cultural myopia than anything else sometimes.

Please see my video I posted a few pages back for more on how to approach "hard passages" in the Bible, particularly in the Old Testament (as my concentration in teaching is in OT and its application to modern Christianity).

I am not a parent, btw. But perhaps one day if I can find a girl who'll have me!  :) 

Blessings from the Dojo,
JM
8/12/12 11:22 AM
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NoGi bear
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BumP
8/12/12 11:59 AM
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HexRei
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DiscipleDojo - 
saemskin - If someone were to attempt to compile a list of scientific atheists, that list would barely run past the 1970's, if it could make it past 1980.

Why? Strange you should ask...
about 200 years ago christains would kill you for saying you were anything but Christian. Yes, even in Armerica, ever heard of Salem Massachusetts? So making a list of christian scientists is unfair, half of them probalby *were* atheists. Much like most catholic priest are gay, only just with little boys. The one place you people have lied and told us our children are protected.

You people pointed the first finger when you knocked on my fucking door to let me know I was going to hell. Why can't you leave everyone else alone?

Your own bible tells you to keep your damn prayer crap to yourself. Matthew 6 tells you all about it. http://niv.scripturetext.com/matthew/6.htm

Then again it says it's ok to sell your daughter into slavery too http://bible.cc/exodus/21-7.htm

Where is the magic decoder ring to tell me what is real and what isn't!!!
my question is have YOU ever heard of Salem and the witch trials? the dozen people killed weren't killed for "not being Christian". they were killed becasue in a mass-hysteria state of panic induced by a number of factors both religious and pscyological, the believed that certain individuals were actively in leage with the devil and thus a danger to the town. It was a horrible blight on what was then a fairly nice colony. But even then, people were quite free to be atheists or deists or unitarians of they chose without facing persecution and certainly not killing.

And the "magic decoder ring" required to make sense of the library of books found within the Bible is nothing more than having a cultural/historical/grammatical reading of the texts in context. 99% of all contradictions and quandries arise when some reader (whether critic or fundamentalist) approach the text at a surface level with little familiarity with things like genre or literary/rhetorical norms in the Biblical languages and then wonder why they seem so confused (or label the Bible itself as hopelessly confused.

I see this so often, even in churches, which is what got me to begin teaching and developing my course on it. If you're interested you can hop over to the free video resources section of http://jmsmith.org and take a look at some of them.

Okay, just took an ambien, so I know my typing is getting loopy ..  Blessings from the Dojo to the UG.   :)
 

You're totally free to be any religion you want, or none! However, we will still execute you within the justice system if you are perceived to be working with the imaginary enemy of our imaginary deity.

LOL.
8/12/12 5:17 PM
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Munk
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LMAO @ pointing to Salem.

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