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Weapons UnderGround >> Intrigued by Karambit


3/1/12 7:56 AM
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Last Don
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So I'm in the market for a new folding knife as an EDC piece. Obviously utility is the primary purpose, but defense is always a consideration.

I've seen a lot of folks recommending karambits lately, and have started researching them. They seem like effective defensive tools, and are harder to disarm than regular bladed knives, but are they something that I'd have to dedicate more training to than a regular straight bladed folder? Are they just a trendy gimmick?

Thoughts?
3/6/12 1:08 AM
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BshMstr
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are you talking about the Emerson one? a couple guys i work with carry those, and they seem pretty happy with 'em. however, one guy broke the tip off his, and they'll replace it for 70 bucks or so.

i carry a Leatherman folder off-hand, both on duty and off duty for weapon retention, and it was about 20 bucks. the Emerson is around 200....
3/8/12 10:15 PM
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Skpotamus
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Karambits are good slashing knives, but not good for stabbing. If you're into the cutting school of SD vs the stabbing school, go for it. Knife disarms are pretty hard to hit on a serious attacker no matter what knife they're holding.

Personally, I wouldn't pay anywhere near what most karambits go for, and especially what an emerson usually goes for, but YMMV.

My personal knife carry is a waved spyderco delica setup so they open to a RGEI (reverse grip edge in). About the same size as a karambit but about $200 less.
3/9/12 9:34 AM
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Last Don
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I've been doing a lot more research, and honestly, there aren't any decent karambit folders for under $200.

It was an intriguing novelty that I was taken with for a bit, but I'll likely end up going with an Endura Wave. It's a fraction of the price, and a company that I've had excellent luck with.

I've also been obsessed lately with knife self-defense techniques. I don't have access to a decent gym or training facility in my area, so I've been youtubing like a fiend.

What are some solid resources you guys recommend checking into? I'm a huge fan of a KISS model that doesn't require much re-education from the years of muay Thai, wrestling and BJJ training I already have. Is there anyone out there that espouses a boxing based system?
3/9/12 10:01 AM
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Skpotamus
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Southnarcs material is pretty effective and nasty. Basically go apeshit with a knife.

James Keatings Drawpoint series is pretty good as well, three basic drills to learn the system. Actually works when going hard sparring with training drones too.

You want something that works well with a boxing based system? Buy a push or punch dagger. Then just machine gun jab the piss out of your opponent with it. Anywhere you land that jab is a blade puncturing the body. If you can't have a double edged blade in your area, look at the cold steel safekeeper 3 (2.5" push dagger with one edge). http://www.knifecenter.com/item/CS12CT/cold-steel-safe-keeper-iii-push
3/9/12 10:14 AM
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Willybone
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The one point I'd raise about karambit as an EDC knife is that they make poor pocketknives. The curve of the blade and the curve of the handle combine to make them so wide that they don't sit in a pocket very well. It becomes really hard to get anything in and out of your pocket.

I tried for a while and went back to valuing the narrow width of a straight blade.

3/9/12 11:18 AM
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Last Don
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Outstanding.

Thanks for all the recs and opinions.

I love this place.

Skpotamus, I like the idea, if I were looking to carry solely for SD, but I like the idea of the versatility of a traditional pocket knife as well.

I know, there's no pleasing me.

I happened to be watching one of the myriad of self-defense shows that they air on the Outdoor network now. I believe it was called "Best Defense," and they were detailing the use of a folder for self-defense, which is what really inspired me to renew my interest in the subject.

The technique they focused on was basically to hold the knife in a tradition, or even a Filipino grip in your right hand, throw a right cross to the face, drag the blade down the bad guy's face, and follow all the way through. On the follow through, the leg should present itself as a target, and they guy was basically showing to cut the quad on the way back out.

The entire movement seemed very simple, and effective.
3/9/12 8:06 PM
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BshMstr
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Last Don - Outstanding.

Thanks for all the recs and opinions.

I love this place.

Skpotamus, I like the idea, if I were looking to carry solely for SD, but I like the idea of the versatility of a traditional pocket knife as well.

I know, there's no pleasing me.

I happened to be watching one of the myriad of self-defense shows that they air on the Outdoor network now. I believe it was called "Best Defense," and they were detailing the use of a folder for self-defense, which is what really inspired me to renew my interest in the subject.

The technique they focused on was basically to hold the knife in a tradition, or even a Filipino grip in your right hand, throw a right cross to the face, drag the blade down the bad guy's face, and follow all the way through. On the follow through, the leg should present itself as a target, and they guy was basically showing to cut the quad on the way back out.

The entire movement seemed very simple, and effective.


ha! i just saw that the other night, too!

kinda changed my idea about knife-fighting, too...
3/9/12 8:10 PM
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Last Don
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I'm glad i'm not the only one. I found the ideas he was espousing to make a ton of sense. His system was simple and realistic.

The guy from the show's website is www.martialbladeconcepts.com. Phone Post
3/9/12 8:13 PM
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Last Don
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What do y'all think of Kelly McCann? Phone Post
3/10/12 12:26 AM
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Skpotamus
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Edited: 03/10/12 10:26 PM
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Watch the cold steel videos on their safe keeper knives. They use them for a lot of everyday tasks as well as fighting knives, so they aren't just a SD knife and are quite useful for some tasks since you can keep the knife in your hand and hold things easier than a traditional knife, although convincing others of that is a bit hard.

If you really want to focus on folding blades, and want a bit more of a knife art. Take a look at Michael Janichs fighting folder series. His section on openings alone is worth the price of the dvds.

edit: michael janich is the martial blades concepts guy.
3/17/12 6:15 PM
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Steven Lefebvre
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Hi All,

I love the kerambit. It can be a very effective weapon and even tool depending on what you are using it for (I use mine in the garden often!)Is it as easy to carry or use as a straight folder? Maybe not, but it is a fun tool to "play" with. Now if you haven't seen Tuhon Ray Dionaldo, use a Kerambit, you have not seen anything yet! Check him and his art (FCS Kali) out, you will not be dissapointed.

Gumagalang
Guro Steve
www.Bujinkandojo.net
3/20/12 12:05 PM
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BshMstr
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Skpotamus - Watch the cold steel videos on their safe keeper knives. They use them for a lot of everyday tasks as well as fighting knives, so they aren't just a SD knife and are quite useful for some tasks since you can keep the knife in your hand and hold things easier than a traditional knife, although convincing others of that is a bit hard.

If you really want to focus on folding blades, and want a bit more of a knife art. Take a look at Michael Janichs fighting folder series. His section on openings alone is worth the price of the dvds.

edit: michael janich is the martial blades concepts guy.


interestingly enough, Michael Janich is the guy from that series Best Defense!

seems like a very good trainer....common sense and reasonable for normal people, not just high-speed spec-ops types.
5/2/12 11:36 PM
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krept
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As far as simplicity, I like the pikal stuff and SouthNarc covers it very well.

In terms of efficacy, you know the difference between stabs and slashes. However, when looking at slashes I think taking biomechanics into consideration is very important. Succinctly, the consensus is that you generate significantly more power with a pulling slash than a pushing slash.

SouthNarc's material is primarily stab, with slash thrown in because you have to retract your stab (then repeat, like a sewing machine). This means blade edge facing you, and anything between your blade and your body is "ripped" with the slash as you retract.

The karambit is essentially the opposite of this. Your stabbing is very limited and the biomechanics are 'push' oriented. I know it looks like a claw, but how many claws and teeth in the natural world are intended to work on the way OUT versus the way in?

When speaking of simplicity, it's critical to consider the importance of platform as well. Karambit is extremely specialized and wouldn't translate to other blades that I'm aware of.

Pikal, on the other hand, works well with any weapon, from a swiss army knife to a large chef blade. When your fine motor skills go to shit, the more complex, "fun" and fancy your tool and system are, the more odds you have against you - just IMO.

cheers
7/14/12 7:37 AM
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WidespreadPanic
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 This is all well and good FOR TRAINING. But for EDC get a cheap, plain looking flat grind knife. Try to get some peanutbutter on it. :)

12/26/13 9:30 AM
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BravoPUA
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Steve Tarani just got done doing stuff with the CIA for the last few years, and has been teaching military and law enforcement for many years in edged weapons

I've trained with him and can't say enough good things about it, and he really is THE GUY who got karambits popular here in the US


511 tactical makes a really solid one for 1/2 of what mine goes for, and everyone I know who has one loves it


I've taught some karambit stuff, so happy to give any tips


Guro Steve is correct, Tuhon Ray is awesome (as is Guro Steve from what I hear)


I've always liked Janich

and only have seen a few things on "pikal by Southnarc" and did't dig it

but if krepy says it's good, then I would trust him
6/29/14 8:10 PM
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UGCTT_5 for fighting
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Cant go wrong with the Fox 599 karambit. I have one and love it. Not sure if a karambit is for me but this one feels great in the hand.
6/29/14 8:11 PM
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UGCTT_5 for fighting
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part 2

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