UnderGround Forums
 

Canada UnderGround >> New promotion in Belleville, ON; Discipline MMA?


5/1/12 9:48 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Robin Black
106 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/10/07
Posts: 4032
What if I say "Go Big Rig woo woo"?
5/1/12 10:04 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Dougie
941 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/20/03
Posts: 95142
That attitude will also ruin the territory. By locking out the small guys in favour of the big guys.

You can't have it both ways. Great pro shows, without having smaller ones.
5/1/12 10:31 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Robin Black
106 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/10/07
Posts: 4033
The problem is, right now, financially small shows cannot break even.

The overhead is too high.

Hopefully that will change within a year or 2. Hopefully after safety concerns have been achieved, learning has been done, qualified local officials achieve the experience they need, etc, the commission costs, official costs, travel costs etc will go down and then smaller shows can be financially feasible.

Once smaller shows are possible in Ontario, then it'll be THE way for new promoters to learn the business. To make their mistakes in ways that don't hurt anyone. To learn and grow and develop relationships and skills and contacts and credibility.

Right now, with theextra costs that are needed to protect this sport in its developmental stages, small shows are financially impossible.

That will change within 2 years I should think.
5/1/12 10:48 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Robin Black
106 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/10/07
Posts: 4034
Dougie, this commission swings hard right on safety and performance.

They seem like they are obsessively working hard to have the first couple years go by without incident. With nothing but success. No odd medical issues, no bad press, no errors due to untrained personnel, drama.

So, they have stringent medical requirements. They mandate that you must use only the most qualified officials, judges, etc from a list of the most experienced. Which you will fly in. And put in hotels. Etc.

All this safety and protecting-of-our-industry costs the promoter money.

Too much money, at this juncture, to do small shows.

That will change as more local officials get the experience (there's more and more on each show) and as costs come down.

Then we will see small shows.

And at that time there should be more new fighters (there's currently a shortage anyways) so the timing will be great.
5/1/12 11:22 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Dougie
941 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/20/03
Posts: 95148
Robin Black - Dougie, this commission swings hard right on safety and performance.


The same comission that refused to sanction shows for over a decade despite the fact that they were being done in other provinces?

Yeah, I would trust what they're doing.
5/1/12 11:43 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Dougie
941 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/20/03
Posts: 95149
I think that they have set the bar high not because they have such great safety issues for fighters but because they want to ensure there are 1) no legal problems 2) only companies with deep pockets can afford to put shows on.

Then they claim that these regs they put in place are for the good of the sport. I have no doubt these regs are for the good of the sport but only a select few.

Sure, flying officials in and putting them up is good. No one denies it. But it also puts a culture in place that only large established promotions or those with pockets deep enough to put on shows can do so.

Who benefits from this? Well, the fans do because there are great shows. The fighters do. I do want them to have safe shows and careers. The OAC does because they get cash and don't have to deal with shows under a smaller size. They admitted in the past that they would have trouble having more than one show in a short space of time. Only having large shows deals with that "worth our time" issue.

If the OAC had a history of being on the side of the sport I would be behind them all the way. They don't. They have fought this sport tooth and nail until the gov't got cash starved and the OAC was told to do it.

Now I believe they stacked the deck so that they will do as little work as possible for the most amount of income and to keep small venues shut out.

If they really wanted to help the sport grow, start insisting on internships, volunteer spots, training and more in these larger shows so that it fosters an environment where these seeds are planted and begin to grow.

What you have now is a gardener who prunes things to perfection but won't plant anything new.

It's ok though, because people like me fought for mma back when it was outlawed. Despite your choice (and I respect your choice by the way) to let the OAC do what it wants there will be people who will hold them accountable and not let them play "big gov't knows what is best for you" games.

I can smell the politics brewing now between the "in" crowd and those who don't have "inside" knowledge or contacts. The little guy is slowly being left out. Much like politics, where it becomes a "who you know" game and they justify it by saying it's for the "good of the people."

I remember a lot of guys who used to frequent these boards back in the day when we all were fighting for it who we don't see anymore now that they are connected and working with the OAC to put on shows or work in the "industry." (I admit I have respect for you for coming here and laying it out still despite your status)

Don't think there are thise of us who don't remember or see what is going on, deliberatly set, or coincidence.
5/1/12 12:51 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Robin Black
106 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/10/07
Posts: 4035
Interesting points, very informed, written with a history of thought and experience.

I'll digest them for a bit.

Thanks for that Dougie.
5/1/12 1:21 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
MMA_Live_In_Gym
1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/26/11
Posts: 45
this thread played like a reality TV show. It was quite obvious beforehand that the show would have an economic downward spiral of $1million. it seems like the promoters lacked discipline and did not plan adequately.

5/1/12 2:04 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Robin Black
106 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/10/07
Posts: 4036
MMA_Live_In_Gym - this thread played like a reality TV show. It was quite obvious beforehand that the show would have an economic downward spiral of $1million. it seems like the promoters lacked discipline and did not plan adequately.



I predicted on a different website that the combination of a fighter shortage, a glut of bigger proven shows with a history of success for fighter to chose, a stringent commission, and promoters without the necessary experience, contacts, skill set, relationships etc, that the show would not be able to pull together a quality card in time and, if they did, they would have a sales ceiling of 300 to 900 tickets maximum.

I was called a hater.

Dougie, still digesting your informed opinion.
5/1/12 2:17 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Robin Black
106 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/10/07
Posts: 4037
Dougie, a few thoughts.

-no commissions in Canada usually do more than one event on the same weekend.

-you never addressed my point about the fact that people who don't know what they're doing damages the sport. Or my rock concert or dog show analogy.

-Further to the rock concert analogy- people who may one day be capable big rock concert promoters learn to do it by doing small shows in local bars. You may book bands at a 100 seat venue for a couple years, then assist at a thousand seat venue for a few, then get a junior gig at LiveNation.

-What would be the equivalent to this above analogy in the complex live MMA business? Small club shows featuring new fighters? That is currently still mathematically impossible.

-How could we make the above small club MMA shows mathematically possible? We'd have to reduce costs.

-How do we reduce costs?

So I guess that's the question we're distilled down to here.

-How do we reduce costs while still providing top flight safety and security and protection?

Like it or not (I like it) the commission, an educated and experienced government group puts the highest premium on safety and legality and protection.

We would have to sway their safety-first (in your opinion perhaps oversafe and intentionally expensive) philosophy. (I'm not your man, I strongly approve of their philosophy and, so far in my experience, believe they are one of the best commissions I've been exposed to. Air tight.)

So where does that leave us?
5/1/12 2:39 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
bigjabroni
2 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/15/04
Posts: 454
 I'm friends with a few guys that are currently being brought in as refs & judges and from what I'm told, the OAC is looking to reduce costs for promoters (ie flying these guys in) but they aren't there yet.

The OAC is working their own guys in but that takes time.  They have good guys but they need to get experience & the OAC has to make sure the job they are doing is up to par.  My friends have said they expect to be phased out by this time next year so maybe then you might see smaller shows start to take off.
5/1/12 2:42 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
MMA_Live_In_Gym
1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/26/11
Posts: 46
DOugie, who are you refering too? if you were to give him a nickname, would it be somewhere along the lines of "joedown show"?
5/1/12 2:47 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Robin Black
106 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 05/01/12 5:51 PM
Member Since: 10/10/07
Posts: 4038
In my opinion Dougie government is, by nature, very very slow.

The costs will drop over time. It will allow smaller and smaller shows to happen slowly. More and more people will become part of the business. Ideally, by the time the costs are low enough to do small shows, there will be enough knowledgeable people to run them and enough fighters to populate them. Enough fans to consume them and enough culture to sustain them.

Its a slow seeding. A slow planting. A slow growth.

Now I have nothing whatsoever to do with the commission and just get hired by promoters on the odd show as a ring announcer, commentator, interviewer or analyst or whatever. In theory, in the short term, more shows would mean more work and short term money for me.

But as I watch this development and analyze it, it seems to me to be a path to long term sustainability and prosperity.

Just my views.
5/1/12 4:24 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
hmeboy
51 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/4/02
Posts: 16916
Dougie - I think that they have set the bar high not because they have such great safety issues for fighters but because they want to ensure there are 1) no legal problems 2) only companies with deep pockets can afford to put shows on.

Then they claim that these regs they put in place are for the good of the sport. I have no doubt these regs are for the good of the sport but only a select few.

Sure, flying officials in and putting them up is good. No one denies it. But it also puts a culture in place that only large established promotions or those with pockets deep enough to put on shows can do so.

Who benefits from this? Well, the fans do because there are great shows. The fighters do. I do want them to have safe shows and careers. The OAC does because they get cash and don't have to deal with shows under a smaller size. They admitted in the past that they would have trouble having more than one show in a short space of time. Only having large shows deals with that "worth our time" issue.

If the OAC had a history of being on the side of the sport I would be behind them all the way. They don't. They have fought this sport tooth and nail until the gov't got cash starved and the OAC was told to do it.

Now I believe they stacked the deck so that they will do as little work as possible for the most amount of income and to keep small venues shut out.

If they really wanted to help the sport grow, start insisting on internships, volunteer spots, training and more in these larger shows so that it fosters an environment where these seeds are planted and begin to grow.

What you have now is a gardener who prunes things to perfection but won't plant anything new.

It's ok though, because people like me fought for mma back when it was outlawed. Despite your choice (and I respect your choice by the way) to let the OAC do what it wants there will be people who will hold them accountable and not let them play "big gov't knows what is best for you" games.

I can smell the politics brewing now between the "in" crowd and those who don't have "inside" knowledge or contacts. The little guy is slowly being left out. Much like politics, where it becomes a "who you know" game and they justify it by saying it's for the "good of the people."

I remember a lot of guys who used to frequent these boards back in the day when we all were fighting for it who we don't see anymore now that they are connected and working with the OAC to put on shows or work in the "industry." (I admit I have respect for you for coming here and laying it out still despite your status)

Don't think there are thise of us who don't remember or see what is going on, deliberatly set, or coincidence.


There is a lot of truth in this post.
5/1/12 6:54 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Dougie
941 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/20/03
Posts: 95155
Robin Black - 
I predicted on a different website that the combination of a fighter shortage, a glut of bigger proven shows with a history of success for fighter to chose, a stringent commission, and promoters without the necessary experience, contacts, skill set, relationships etc, that the show would not be able to pull together a quality card in time and, if they did, they would have a sales ceiling of 300 to 900 tickets maximum.
I was called a hater.


I wouldn't call you a hater. I know you love the sport and want it to succeed. However, your initial outlook was one that it sounded like you hoped it would fail to teach people a lesson.

However, as shown, the promotor was a bit of a dillhole too in how they acted and promoted the show.

It would have been nice to see people work together rather than people look for the promotion to fail and the promotor to look to spit in the eye of the established "in" crowd.

Robin Black - Dougie, still digesting your informed opinion.


I'm not saying you are wrong Robin but it sure as heck looks like the deck is being stacked in the favour of the established promotor and or the "industry people."

I remember at one point you talking about the music industry slanted things so that the natural talent did not rise to the top but rather who they wanted to see succeed I would say that ths is what it appears to be happening in the OAC world. I would lay money if we replaced MMA with music and looked at it, you'd be thinking that natural selection of talent would be best and not having a power tell you what you should or should not like.

My two cents.
5/1/12 7:02 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Dougie
941 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/20/03
Posts: 95156
I'll try to address some of my concerns here. Bear in mind that I agree with you on some points so there is nothing to debate there.

Robin Black - -no commissions in Canada usually do more than one event on the same weekend.


At one point the OAC said they would have trouble dealing with events on consecutive weekends as a reason why they could not open it wide to regular MMA. Granted it was a topic to stall by the OAC but I remember it being said.

Robin Black - -you never addressed my point about the fact that people who don't know what they're doing damages the sport. Or my rock concert or dog show analogy.


This happens already in the music industry. Guys who know what they are doing are the ones who succeed and they guys who don't fall away. I don't hear anyone saying that it's ruining the who music industry in this region.

I agree that those who have their poop wired tight will do better but to say that smaller guys should not be allowed to have shows because it would ruin the sport is bull imo. It's larger industry protecting it's own interests of a few under the guise of "knowing what's best for us." The gov't pulls this crap all the time. Of course, we as Canucks accept this and put up with it.

I am just saying that when we had no MMA we were told "Oh yeah, it's illegal." Then we had the pressure going with people starting to force it and it was "Oh we're going to have amateur MMA until it's been proven safe." Then suddenly we have Pro MMA because the gov't was ca$h hungry and they want to control who is getting to do it. It should be open to all who want to compete without unfair advantage to those with contacts or cash.

By the way, what happened to amateur MMA? Did I miss it? Is there sanctioning for it? Remember, it was going to be for our own safety, just like the pro stuff is being regulated now, for our own safety.
5/1/12 7:13 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Dougie
941 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/20/03
Posts: 95157
Robin Black - -Further to the rock concert analogy- people who may one day be capable big rock concert promoters learn to do it by doing small shows in local bars. You may book bands at a 100 seat venue for a couple years, then assist at a thousand seat venue for a few, then get a junior gig at LiveNation.

-What would be the equivalent to this above analogy in the complex live MMA business? Small club shows featuring new fighters? That is currently still mathematically impossible.

-How could we make the above small club MMA shows mathematically possible? We'd have to reduce costs.

-How do we reduce costs?

So I guess that's the question we're distilled down to here.

-How do we reduce costs while still providing top flight safety and security and protection?

Like it or not (I like it) the commission, an educated and experienced government group puts the highest premium on safety and legality and protection.

We would have to sway their safety-first (in your opinion perhaps oversafe and intentionally expensive) philosophy. (I'm not your man, I strongly approve of their philosophy and, so far in my experience, believe they are one of the best commissions I've been exposed to. Air tight.)

So where does that leave us?


I agree with you. Le the small guys run small shows so that they and fighters get the experience they need. No argument there.

What i am saying is that we're hearing from you that no, you should not let these small guys do this because it ruins territories and fans. That to me sounds like people are already dividing up who can and cannot have shows in what spots. Why? Because their is money to be made and the deck is being stacked to the big guys can walk in and be allowed to do it.

I like the safety too. I think they hould be safe. I think safety for fighters is paramount.

But there has to be a grass roots movement too. That's how we got MMA in the first place. Little guys all over fought and scrapped to get it. Now big business has it's hooks in it and is trying to push out the little guy who might want to take a shot at it.

How?

1) Putting costs out of reach. I am doubting that the "highest premium" on on safety alone. I bet there is a premium on a lot of items, including costs and taxes paid for allowing people to run a show. In fact, I bet they only want certain people having shows because they know the cost versus return when it comes to capacity of venues and how many people are in the seats. The OAC is there for the peopel to enjoy what it is supposed to do. if they make money on one show they can make no money and break even on another. Is it a profit driven organization? Probably, but the real profit should be the economic spin off of having the show go on in the area it is in!

2) Not having educational courses on how to run a show. How to be a ref. How to be a fighter. How to be a judge. Who is doing these things? The independents. Then they hope the OAC approves. If it's ok that the independents do these things like refs and judges, why not teach people how to be good promotors?

Have it mandatory to have guys looking to learn how to be refs be part of a show in a volunteer capacity or have these refs and judges they fly in teahes courses while they are here.
5/1/12 7:21 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Dougie
941 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/20/03
Posts: 95158
Robin Black - In my opinion Dougie government is, by nature, very very slow.

The costs will drop over time. It will allow smaller and smaller shows to happen slowly. More and more people will become part of the business. Ideally, by the time the costs are low enough to do small shows, there will be enough knowledgeable people to run them and enough fighters to populate them. Enough fans to consume them and enough culture to sustain them.

Its a slow seeding. A slow planting. A slow growth.

Now I have nothing whatsoever to do with the commission and just get hired by promoters on the odd show as a ring announcer, commentator, interviewer or analyst or whatever. In theory, in the short term, more shows would mean more work and short term money for me.

But as I watch this development and analyze it, it seems to me to be a path to long term sustainability and prosperity.

Just my views.


I don't think they are planting anything. I think they are pulling low hanging fruit off trees that are already there and can sustain themselves and then tilling the ground around those trees killing anything else that tries to grow there and saying they are doing it to esure that the fruit they pick for you is good.

There is not a lot of work in picking low hanging fruit. In fact if they wanted to plant smaller seedlings they would make space for them and protect them from the larger trees gobbling up all the resources.

As it is, it looks like they are making the garden look nice but only for what they found already growing.

Don't kid yourself though, the weeds will eventually find a way. Remember the reserve shows? You think they'll disappear if people can't get the sanctioning they want?

I don't believe the costs will come down. Have you ever seen a govt body get rid of a tax once they put it in? No, it's a money maker and they will keep trying to make the golden goose poop eggs.

You are right about the lack of fighters but once that sparseness is gone and there are lots of guys wanting to fight we won't see costs go down. They will be the same and there will be native shows. I bet we'll even see the OAC start to threaten fighters if they fight on those shows.

Why? The OAC wants it's money. They want total control. Mix the two together and we have only the big guys doing shows and greasing palms eventually to get what they want.
5/1/12 7:37 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Dougie
941 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/20/03
Posts: 95159
As for the person who asked me about people no longer here.

I am not saying anyone's name because it's not fair to say what people's lives are like and their schedules.

What I am saying is that we used to ROCK hard in this forum with ideas and what we were going to do. We have crazy arguments and people dropping insider info about what people planned to do.

You could log on here and there would be tons of new threads and replies. People would go out of their way to find out what the scene was and share what they knew.

Now, this place is an advertising forum of grappling events and where the next MMA event will be. Of course if it's not UFC, Bellator, or the Score, well, then it's suddenly crap?

We used to talk about small shows out on the east coast. In B.C. Quebec. Now it's just what big show is next. Share info or help people get a show off the ground? No way, it's everyone for themselves.

I see people who are "insiders" who left us peasants in the dust to go make their money. Fighters who used to come here and beg for support. (Don't give me that crap they got run off. They fight for a living)

It's a big industry now. Who are we to ask they share any of that with us anymore? Oh wait, we just buy the tickets. Don't kid yourself. We know that guys like Joe Doerksen are still here through the highs and lows of his career. That's why he's loved.

It's like Hollywood. Actors fight like hell to get to the top and will whore themselves out to any paparazzi to get exposure and then when they have made it they promptly take their money and cry about how the press never leaves them alone.

Sam Stout did a local fundraiser last weekend for a school. He could have said no but he did it because he's doing now what he was was doing when no one heard of him. I want to be like that. Doing what I love and being as real with the people who got me where I am today.

I'm pretending to argue with myself because we're so damn bored here it's actually one of the few amusing things going. That and a thread about "TTTeh?" Yeah, it's nothing but clips of average MMA news, tournaments, and adverts.

You'll have to excuse me while I get off my soap box and go do some sailing. Laters.
5/1/12 7:45 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Robin Black
106 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/10/07
Posts: 4039
I like what I'm seeing Dougie. You're smart, you care, and you have a ton of experience.



One area you completely misunderstand me tho:

Dougie-

"What i am saying is that we're hearing from you that no, you should not let these small guys do this because it ruins territories and fans."

Completely not true.

I think there should be great small developmental shows. They will be vital.

They are just not mathematically possible yet.

I just don't think people should pretend to be something they aren't and attempt things that are obvious to all (but them) that are beyond their abilities.

If the people that attempted to do this Belleville show, for example, had any workable experience or market analysis whatsoever they would have predicted this outcome as I did. As I did EXACTLY by the way (sorry to be a dick).

If, instead of standing up and making ridiculous claims they had said "we're going to do a small show focusing on newer fighters and its a work in progress" and charged $30, it would have been considered a reasonable show.

Instead, they damaged the Belleville region and its potential MMA consumers for good. That territory cannot yield a successful MMA show now for years to come.

I agree promoters like this should be encouraged to do smaller shows, ones that allow them to learn and develop without ruining entire regions of fans.

Its just not mathematically possible yet.

Its a cake and eat it too scenario.

You can either have the safest and most professional commission in North America, or you can have a cheap commission.

I'll personally choose the safest.


Also, luckily, much of this is irrelevant.

There is not enough fighters, not enough people with experience in the business, not enough refs, not enough fans, not enough officials etc etc to do more shows anyways.

By the time there is, in the next 12 to 24 months, the costs will go down and it will be possible.


**********


Give me a touch of credit. I did predict exactly how this particular show would go down and why. The incomplete card. The fighter shortage. The lack of skills experience and tools of promoters. The stringent commission.

And I slightly overpredicted ticket sales.

But I predicted the outcome exactly. Detail for detail.


I'm not inventing facts. I've analyzed this big picture over the last 24 months. I've enlisted business analysts, including one who worked for the Olympics. I've talked at length with people who have been in this end of the industry for years. I've recorded all the numbers, looked at all the detail. I have spread sheets and graphs and nerd shit out my hoo ha.

I'm no genius, I'm just an obsessed nerd. A nerd who's spent his 10 000 hours.

I'm telling you they have it right.

Too safe and too expensive is the risk to take. Not the other way around.

Especially in a developing region.

In the 2 year period that the costs go down, the resources and tools and fans and fighters and business people and cottage industries take shape.

By the time its cheap enough, you have education and experience trickling down. You have new young fighters. You have an educated audience.

Again, I'm no genius, but I've studied the big picture of the MMA business in Ontario deeper and more in-depth than any living human.

The fact that I have bad hair and am a bit of a dork notwithstanding, I think I have this figured out.

And these government people are doing it right.


*******

For now. Trust me, I'm keeping an eye on them too.
5/1/12 8:05 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Robin Black
106 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/10/07
Posts: 4040
Also Dougie, a guy named Woodrow James did a show in Sarnia in December.

Just him, a business partner, and a couple of friends.

He was able to build a great great card, pack an arena, excite the town, build a beautiful amazing show, secure TV coverage, and prove himself to be a valid little-guy promoter.

And they came within a low couple thousand of breaking even. On their first show.

He showed it can be done.



But Woody is the real thing.

Woody worked on amateur shows in Michigan for 3 or 4 years. He did his time. He carried the spit bucket.
He developed relationships through proving his honesty and value and work ethic, not through bravado or deception or any common promoter tools.

He has fighters and coaches and managers that trust him because he worked hard for them and proved he would always come through.

Woody had fights pulled by the commission, Woody had injuries, Woody had meds not get done, Woody had guys miss weight.

But Woody had the tools and the experience and the relationships to succeed.

Woody doesn't want to be on TV. Woody doesn't want to be in papers. Woody is not the face of Ontario MMA.

Woody is a hell of a promoter.

Woody has the tools to succeed in the most complicated MMA territory in the world, the region of the biz with the most moving parts.

I can confidently predict a strong card for Woody on his September show, a great experience for the fans, and a profit for he and his partners.

It can be done.
5/1/12 8:32 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Robin Black
106 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/10/07
Posts: 4041
Last thing Dougie, and you'll like this.

Yes amateur MMA is happening. First show is this summer.

I'll get you more deets.
5/1/12 9:08 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Dougie
941 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/20/03
Posts: 95160
I know Woodrow from back in the day. We've known each other a long time. Woody is the kind of guy I want running a show and I think the he's the kind of guy who's going to get screwed again and again by the OAC. He'll get bigger though be sheer determination. Not by the help of the OAC. I would invest in Woody 7 days a week and twice on Sunday. Can you imagine if he had been given the chance to learn through the OAC instead of having to go elsewhere to learn?

If you think that the OAC will drop their prices as things go along then we'll have to disagree. They won't. Very few times do govt agencies drop prices on money they already collect. They will also cater to the larger promotions and stack that deck every chance they get. They have a horrible track record of doing what they want and ignoring anyone else. That is fact.

...and I will admit that the Belleville show promotors had issues they should have dealt with and not tried to give people the finger. By the same token they should have been offered help. It was a two way street with both sides looking to cold shoulder the other.

Lets not kid ourselves. If he proper show comes in that regin can yeild a event no problem. It's far from ruined. What might be ruined is that promotor's ability to have anyone work with them for another show.

That may be because they thumbed their nose at others. Maybe because they didn't get the help they needed. But if the fans want it, they'll get it. Stop telling the fans what they can get.

I wish you the best luck and as always any help I could give you but I am not about to start having long showers and brief glances with the OAC or their cronies just yet.
5/1/12 9:16 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Dougie
941 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 8/20/03
Posts: 95161
Robin Black - Last thing Dougie, and you'll like this. Yes amateur MMA is happening. First show is this summer. I'll get you more deets.


I hope that this works out well so fighters get experience.

I still remember the OAC saying that we would only have ammy MMA until we had a certain amount of gyms signed on and a proven lengthy track record before we would get pro MMA.

Last I checked we've had Pro MMA already for close to a year. I am guessing that this first ammy show will be so spectacular that it will give enough of a track record to back date to before pro mma and thus make the OACs words ring true. Sweet baby jeebus, the show will be so awesome it will travel back in time!

Sarcasm aside, the OAC will say what it wants to say to serve itself.

What I will say is that I am glad it's here. All of it.
5/1/12 9:55 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Robin Black
106 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/10/07
Posts: 4042
We need more like you Dougie.

Much love.

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.