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Canada UnderGround >> New promotion in Belleville, ON; Discipline MMA?


5/2/12 3:58 PM
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hmeboy
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Dougie - 
Robin Black - Last thing Dougie, and you'll like this. Yes amateur MMA is happening. First show is this summer. I'll get you more deets.


I hope that this works out well so fighters get experience.

I still remember the OAC saying that we would only have ammy MMA until we had a certain amount of gyms signed on and a proven lengthy track record before we would get pro MMA.

Last I checked we've had Pro MMA already for close to a year. I am guessing that this first ammy show will be so spectacular that it will give enough of a track record to back date to before pro mma and thus make the OACs words ring true. Sweet baby jeebus, the show will be so awesome it will travel back in time!

Sarcasm aside, the OAC will say what it wants to say to serve itself.

What I will say is that I am glad it's here. All of it.


Good debate gents, I really liked what you had to say on the previous page Dougie, it was like you were channeling my thoughts.

I have a bit of insight on the amateur mma, it's being put on by CASK - which we are a member of, and I do believe it's being put on by MAS muay thai.

Rules that I know of so far is that they will most likely have to wear head gear, and no striking allowed on the ground.
5/2/12 4:17 PM
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guardbr8kr
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Holy crap,6600 views on this thread. LOL
Black must still be doing the refresh and reading his posts over and over while looking in the mirror and flexing again.

@ Lachlan “your whole angle is basically that you are friends with mair and you were training partners back in the day? This about right? “

Dave was never a friend of mine and we only competed against each other years ago. However after meeting Dave last Saturday night after 25 years, I would have no problem calling him a friend.

“ looks like two guys who's lives peaked with athletic accomplishments 20 years ago and unfortunately haven't done anything of consequence since then.”

I don’t know about that, I was a carded “A” baseball player up until I was 30 or so. Dave, I believe, went on to be a 2 time Olympic Coach. I’m sure you will accomplish more than both of us put together.

“Even if it was just supposed to be a light hearted gag against someone you think is a little shit “

That is exactly what that picture represents. It’s been happening around the UG for over a decade.

“just looks like two haggered old athletes who haven't kept in shape but unfortunately haven't managed to accomplish anything else in their lives that they care about more than being the best high school wrestler in the 80's. “

Dave may look a lil older however as a man with 5 kids ages 19-23 ( 4 boy’s and 1 girl) and our 5th grandson on the way in July, I wouldn’t say I look all that bad…. Lol
My wife and I run a successful small business as we are both NRCan Energy Advisors.We live in a modest home with just over 4 acres on the Trent river. I can go fish off my dock whenever I like and I like to do that a lot.

“mostly I just feel sad for you and hope that you can find something else to define your existence. I just want that for you so you don't end up dying alone and sad with nothing but some cheap medals and the tiny ego boost you get from hassling people on the internet like a 14yr old bully.”

Like I said, my wife and I have 5 kids and our 5th grandchild on the way. I don’t I’ll be “dying alone and sad” any time soon but thanks for your concern.I also appreciate the invitation to visit Mecha MMA for a class, however I’m rarely in T.O ( I hate big cities) but appreciate the offer.

Cheers,
Randy.
5/2/12 4:22 PM
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guardbr8kr
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I agree with hmeboy. There is a good debate going on in this thread, but I would never "trust" a guy that says "For now. Trust me,"

Fuck Robin Black !!! :)
5/2/12 5:45 PM
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guardbr8kr
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For the most part, last Saturday's show was a success imo.The fights were all pretty good and I got to see a few guy's I hadn't seen in over 25 years.

As Black described earlier with his great wisdom, Discipline MMA had a lot of challenges putting on a show in the Quinte Region.

"Belleville is 10 years behind everyone else", this is so true. There is money in this area however it is "old" money. Most jobs in the local economy only pay $12 -$15 per hour so there's not alot of money extra for folks at the end of the day to spend on a MMA show. I think they were banking on support from the air base (and so they should have) however I did not see one guy proudly wearing his uniform in the crowd. (sad really).

The arena and setup looked great!

I'm sure the guy's from Discipline MMA will gain experience from this show and continue to hold successful shows in the future.

5/2/12 5:51 PM
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guardbr8kr
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Edited: 05/02/12 6:03 PM
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and I personally agree with Dougie' knowledge, views and opinions over Black's "Look at me , give me credit, I'mma OAC shill" bullshit.<br /><br />
5/2/12 7:50 PM
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Robin Black
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Dougie has some great points and I'm curious to play them out.

Dougie, you raise some intriguing points.

So how do we fix some of these challenges and swing the balance a bit?
5/2/12 7:59 PM
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Show Your Strength
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Robin, sorry to hijack the thread, but I would love to have you attend our event on June 3 in Toronto for the Tompkins Memorial Fund.  Let me know how to reserve you a ticket.
5/2/12 8:23 PM
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Robin Black
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Thank you my friend.

Really really looking forward it.

Facebook me I'm pumped
5/3/12 8:30 AM
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Robin Black
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Gaurdb8kr (Randy), read your responses.

It does sound like you've got it good. Especially that family and fishing off the dock stuff. Nice man. Sweet.

I don't know if it shows and you just miss it because you're influenced by posts I made in the past, or if I'm not doing a good enough job at it, but I have done my best to refrain from insulting your friend or anyone else personally. Or, for that matter, even associating anyone's name with negative analysis on this thread.

My message was consistent that all evidence suggested this show was boasting impossible claims, that this show could not be successful and could do some serious damage to the Belleville fan base, and I turned out to be correct. It may get colored a bit by my belief based on my experience that some of the principals in this promotion are possibly motivated in ways that are dangerous to the sport, but its consistent and I do my best to keep it from being personal. As I said I don't even mention people's names.

I've found that I have a propensity to come of as a dick and rub some people the wrong way. I'm workin on that.


I think Lachlan's "die alone with cheap medals" stuff was metaphorical, and kind of a knee jerk response to a troll. He probably doesn't know a lot of grandfathers who hold up hand-written signs that say "Fuck a website and fuck a guy I don't know".

At the same time, I'm not bothered by it. I certainly have odd ways of entertaining myself, a lot odder that taking a picture with a sign. I say a good dude who's lived for 50 years and raised 5 successful kids can entertain himself however he likes.

I'll do my best to be even less personal in the future and, if I continue the need to put out free analysis-that-nobody-really-asked-for on a public board, I'll try not to offend you.

I hope you get some fishing in off the dock today that sounds truly beautiful.
5/3/12 8:32 AM
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Robin Black
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Edited: 05/03/12 8:37 AM
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duplicate sorry
5/3/12 9:22 AM
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Dougie
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guardbr8kr -  Fuck Robin Black !!! :)


Robin Black - I have a dick and rub some people. I have odd ways of entertaining myself.


Show Your Strength - I would love to have you


I don't like where this thread is going...
5/3/12 9:52 AM
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Dougie
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Robin Black - Dougie has some great points and I'm curious to play them out.
Dougie, you raise some intriguing points.
So how do we fix some of these challenges and swing the balance a bit?


To be honest, a good start would have people who are inside or connected with the OAC keeping them honest and pushing for the items mentioned.

Will it happen? I don't think so. What we the public have seen is that everyone involved with the OAC is afraid to speak out because they don't want to 1) Be left out of the cool kids circle, 2) be blackballed or censured either overt or covertly, or 3) lose their "industry" status.

When you just "trust" the gov't to do what they think is best you have a recipe for disaster.

What it is going to take is for people to ask, "Why?" For these people to listen to what others in the front lines are saying and not be afraid to take these questions to the OAC and have answers given. To scrutinize the answers and call people on answers that are paper walls and glass ceilings. To demand transparency and accountability, with the consequences being real towards the OAC if they run afoul of what the people want or established guidelines.

It's going to take someone who is not afraid to be left out of the OAC clique and still have the clout in the industry to force the OAC to still have to deal with them.

I have to add that if we're asking that all promotors be given a chance to succeed in a level playing field industry then it is also the duty for these promotors to take it upon themselves to act like professionals as well. This axe of responsibility will swing both ways.

In any other marketplace some of the current actions of the OAC could be seen to have the culture of a monopoly if you put restrictions in place that only allow a few to participate.

Do I have all the answers? No. If I did I would come walking towards Toronto swinging that axe of responsibility. I am willing to point things out, probably because I don't have a horse in the race and don't have to play nice because this won't affect my livelihood. I'm not saying we need negative destructive critical energy but rather positive constructive critical building.

Dissent is an integral part of our free process in politics and should be used. Any time everyone agrees and lets gov't do what they think is best for us without consequences, well, I get worried.

Either way, I won't be silent or silenced. A million peole doing a stupid thing is still a stupid thing.
5/3/12 11:53 AM
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Robin Black
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Dougie - 
Robin Black - Dougie has some great points and I'm curious to play them out.
Dougie, you raise some intriguing points.
So how do we fix some of these challenges and swing the balance a bit?



Dissent is an integral part of our free process in politics and should be used. Any time everyone agrees and lets gov't do what they think is best for us without consequences, well, I get worried.




This is true and it kicks ass.
5/3/12 12:08 PM
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Robin Black
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All passion and opinion aside, the biggest hole that you point out in my "everything is great" thinking is whether or not these costs will actually ever come down.

Because, my optimistic vision relies on costs coming down as quality people, more fighters, more fans and more consumer demand rises.

So will these OAC costs come down?

Well, some of these costs are not governmental. They're incidental, but they're based on policy.

A lot of these costs stem from the policy of the OAC having promoters bring in the best and most experienced refs, judges, officials, etc.

That policy causes promoters to have to pay for up to a dozen extra flights and dozens of hotel nights.

The implication has been that, as more homegrown judges and refs etc get the experience, this will not be required.

This is happening. Slowly yes, but it is happening.

Trained and qualified officials have started to be used, first obsevationally, then hired.

Patrick Goulah, an Ontario based judge certified under Big John's COMMAND course, has been inserted as a judge. He was monitored to make sure that he is at the level the OAC demands, which is the highest level in the sport, and he is.

The training, certifying, observing and then hiring of Mr. Goulah shows the slow direction. There's a hometown guy now, one less flight, and 2 or 3 less hotels needed.

There's others at various stages.

As each one enters the rotation, there's a few thousand dollars of reduced cost for the promoters.

Evidence support the theory that costs are going down.


*************

Dougie, you're smart, experienced, impassioned, and have a life time of knowledge.

You're intelligent dissent is probably even more important than you think.

If a promoter or a trainer or a coach or an athlete makes these complaints, they are easy to ignore. Those people all have vested interests. They make money in this industry. They can complain or champion things that help their business or fighter or pocketbook or agenda.

But people like you, Dougie, can complain or ask questions or make points and they are of far more legitimacy.

Because you have nothing to gain from a business perspective.

Please stay mobilized and stay vocal.

We want the sport to thrive.

I believe the slow grow is the way to guarantee that.

You don't.

You've been around these parts a hell of a lot longer than me. You have some insight that I don't even understand.

You raise some very important and very smart points and please, when you can, keep doing that forever.
5/3/12 1:44 PM
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Dougie
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Then hold them to their word, Robin. When they say or imply they will do something, don't let them have an excuse for not doing it. Start asking and keep asking when the costs will go down. Ask for dates, times, reasons.

If they say that as soon as enough people are trained and live in the province that they will stop flying people in then hold them to that.

If they say that not enough people are trained to do something ask them why these training opportunities are not offered for those who live here.

If they start to ask for to many hoops to jump through to allow the smaller shows to go on, ask them why and if it smells fishy, call them on it. (In a nice way but in a way that requires an answer)

It's great to offer support but we have to constructively offer critial analysis and they should be open about what they are doing.

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