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LEOGround >> When unarmed encounters become deadly force...


3/16/12 3:50 PM
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FJJ828
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 In teaching officers to control violent individuals, we need to make some philosophical decisions. First is that an officer’s life is more important than political correctness or potential liability. I was in a class recently where the instructor was teaching the use of an eye gouge when the situation reached the level of deadly force. He called the technique “ocular displacement,” which sounds more politically correct than “eye gouge.”

This political correctness has become a joke. If you are in a fight for your life and cannot get to your weapons, you may be forced to use an eye gouge. When your life is in jeopardy, are you more likely to remember the term “eye gouge” or “ocular displacement” — silly question, yes, but it makes the point.  Furthermore, by even calling the technique “ocular displacement” it could unnecessarily — and incorrectly — lead a jury and/or the public to believe we’re hiding something. 

Secondly, when does an unarmed encounter become deadly force? Most states and jurisdictions define deadly force as: force that is likely to cause death or great bodily injury. Your state’s definition may vary slightly, but this is a generic definition. Does this force need to immediately fit this definition, such as a suspect preparing to fire gun at you? If deadly force needs to be immediate, then how is someone grabbing your holstered firearm deadly force? The reason weapon retention is deadly force is because if the suspect gets your gun from you, he will shoot you. He is not taking it to throw it away. So although not immediate in this case, deadly force is imminent.

Defining Deadly Force
Now, let’s say the suspect throws a roundhouse punch and tries to hit you in the face. Is this deadly force? I understand that some officer/subject factors come into play, but can’t a smaller person knockout or incapacitate a bigger person if they hit the person in the jaw? Even if the suspect does not knock you out or down, do you think he will stop attacking after one punch? One punch may not rise to the level of deadly force, but a barrage of punches at the head may rise to deadly force.

We have to realize that it is not very common for an officer to be attacked by a suspect intent on hurting or killing them. It is more likely the suspect is trying to escape, but we should not be any less prepared to defend ourselves.

In trying to understand how officers think, I have asked classes “When does a fight (without a weapon) become deadly force?” Most of the time, the answer involves the officer losing, being exhausted, or having no other option. Although this would justify the use of deadly force, it may be too late. By the time we are losing or exhausted it may be too late. We need to understand that when a suspect attacks, we need to be fighting not controlling. Most of what is taught in defensive tactics is control techniques or counter techniques to the suspect’s resistance. A suspect that is trying to hurt us is not resisting, he is attacking. Few systems deal effectively with this type of suspect.

Blended Disciplines
A third change we need to make is in teaching force disciplines. Why do we still have firearms instructors and defensive tactics instructors instead of use of force instructors? I understand that the fundamentals of firearms skills and defensive tactics skills need to be taught separately, but once learned; students need to be in “using force” classes or “violent encounter resolution” courses. By keeping this training separate, officers may not understand how and when to use deadly force unless the suspect has a gun or knife.

 
3/16/12 3:51 PM
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FJJ828
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cont'd
Typically, most firearms instructors teach everything you need to know when your gun is out of your holster. Most defensive tactics instructors teach how to control suspects when they resist. Based on these teaching methods, who teaches to use deadly force when the officer is on his back, fighting for his/her life and losing? I think we are making progress in this area, but few instructors teach how to draw a firearm while someone is on top of you trying to punch, strike, choke or disarm you.

Firearms instructors may say that it is a defensive tactics issue since the officer is physically engaged with the suspect. Defensive tactics instructors may try to teach how to counter or escape the suspect, saying if deadly force is needed, the firearms guys will teach those techniques. Each instructor will say it’s the other instructor’s area of training. As a result, this and many transitional force needs are being overlooked. This leads to the officers trying to find a solution while being attacked.

By making these philosophical changes in our training, we can instill the proper mindset in our officers.  Officers are being injured and killed at an alarming rate this year. We need to give them the skills to defend themselves. 

-Ross Torquato, PoliceOne

3/19/12 12:35 PM
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BshMstr
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good post...


my dept is pretty good about integrating DT and firearms, IMO. we do scenario based training pretty frequently that will integrate sim-guns, OC, TASER, DT, etc... i'm surprised how few agencies do this, though.


i like the point made about deadly force in a fight....my ex-GF is a cop in a different agency, and she's about 5'3 110lbs. i had to explain to her that deadly force was different for her than me, since i'm 100lbs heavier with susbstantially more training/experience in fighting. i know that i would knock her out with one punch (as i've knocked out most guys my size), but she could hit me with little effect.
4/22/12 4:35 AM
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Shire
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FJJ, I can tell by your post you are well rounded and experienced. I have been teaching LEO for about 30 years. I retire from my PD Sept. of this year. I will be joining a select group of people whom are adressing this issue.

You are correct..We need to teach to kill when someone is trying to hurt us!
4/23/12 8:13 PM
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FJJ828
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 Thanks, Shire,

This is just a c&p from PoliceOne, though. 

 Funny, I just got back from ILEETA and an instructor I observed did this exact thing...

"This political correctness has become a joke. If you are in a fight for your life and cannot get to your weapons, you may be forced to use an eye gouge. When your life is in jeopardy, are you more likely to remember the term “eye gouge” or “ocular displacement” — silly question, yes, but it makes the point. Furthermore, by even calling the technique “ocular displacement” it could unnecessarily — and incorrectly — lead a jury and/or the public to believe we’re hiding something."

Except he wanted us to refer to the eye gouge as "Eye Socket Stabilization". 

I think the point should be that cops should learn how to better recognize and articulate the threat they were facing and be able justify whatever they did and make peace with it as something they had to do... as opposed to spending valuable training time trying to sterilize a bloody event.  
4/24/12 9:43 PM
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Shire
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Problem is cops want to do the least amount of force for several reasons: mostly to keep from being sued or suspended by their department. Then consider that wearing all the gear we need too, and our "professional demeanor" causes us to react in stead of act. Since action is faster than reaction, we are already behind the ball, so to speak. If we want to survive all physical conflicts (not knowing how intense they will turn out to be) we have to assume we know how far the attacker is willing to go, or find a way to relate our fears to the administration. Your right, cops need to better articulate their fear, but insurance companies will always settle out of court. Been there, done that, and have had cop students sued as well.
4/24/12 9:46 PM
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Shire
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In a few months I will no longer be the cop trainer, but the agency or city admin trainer. We HAVE to get away from being
"liability concerned" about taking forceful actions. To take no action, is an action. Admin and others must understand it IS OUR JOB to handle the issues, and we must act, not sit around and think about it for days or months.
4/25/12 12:05 PM
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KidJustice
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Shire - FJJ, I can tell by your post you are well rounded and experienced. I have been teaching LEO for about 30 years. I retire from my PD Sept. of this year. I will be joining a select group of people whom are adressing this issue.

You are correct..We need to teach to kill when someone is trying to hurt us!
Congrats on the retirement!

I travel a lot with some of the investigations I do. What area are you out of?
 
4/29/12 2:28 AM
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Shire
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Northern Indiana, you?
4/29/12 2:31 AM
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Shire
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Ill still be teaching cops really, just tired of the BS. Private, SOF and preppers are better students. Most cops in a class do the set once or twice and then just sit back and watch. Trying to get a good class of dfedicated officers is hard. Those types, really dont need the training as much as the ones that sit on sidelines, because of age or weight issues. You guys or gals know what I mean.
4/30/12 9:28 AM
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KidJustice
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Shire - Ill still be teaching cops really, just tired of the BS. Private, SOF and preppers are better students. Most cops in a class do the set once or twice and then just sit back and watch. Trying to get a good class of dfedicated officers is hard. Those types, really dont need the training as much as the ones that sit on sidelines, because of age or weight issues. You guys or gals know what I mean.
I'm in Colorado.

I 100% get what you mean! I have a small training company and I started out training Officers/LEOs but after dealing with to much bullshit I now train mostly preppers, private groups and small security companies as well as your basic Mom and Pop type CCW classes.. I make way more cash dealing with these groups than I do trying to get contracts with local LEAs.
 
5/1/12 2:11 PM
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buddie
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my threads

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