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Oklahoma Underground >> EFC 3/17: Results


3/19/12 7:41 PM
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Zilla2000
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Elite Fighting Championships

Kickers Kountry Klub – Idabel, OK.

March 17, 2012

 

Jason Griggs defeats Kenneth Tucker by TKO (ref stoppage) – 0:16 RD 2

 

Dustin Rhodes defeats Jonathan Brown by TKO (ref stoppage) – 1:53 RD 3

 

Sanel Puskar defeats James Dean by Unanimous Decision (29-28x3) – 2:00 RD 3

 

Gary Alexander defeats Robert White by Submission (armbar) – 1:27 RD 1

 

Chris Barnett defeats Jared Barnes by Submission (Rear Naked Choke) – 0:54 RD 2

 

Jesse Williams defeats Dillon Maness by Submission (Rear Naked Choke) – 1:20 RD 1

 

Franklin Patterson defeats Colton Brown by Split Decision (29-28,29-28,28-29) – 2:00 RD 3

 

Malcolm Hill defeats Robert Ponce by Split Decision (29-28,28-29,29-28) – 2:00 RD 3

 

Tyler Harvey defeats Josh Logundino by Unanimous Decision (29-28,29-28,30-27) – 2:00 RD 3

 

Dillon Thomas defeats Anthony George by TKO (ref stoppage) – 1:48 RD 1

 

EFC 155lb Championship

Chris Snyder defeats Casey Williams by TKO (ref stoppage) – 2:36 RD 2

 

EFC 185lbs Championship

***Zilla’s Fight of the Night***

Marc Ayub defeats Brandon Rupp by Unanimous Decision (30-27, 30-27,29-28) – 3:00 RD 3

3/19/12 7:44 PM
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Zilla2000
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Very good card evenly matched from top to bottom. Not a single squash match. Amateur MMA has come a long way and the local talent pool is muuuch deeper.
3/20/12 12:56 AM
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liquidsoul
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I hear it was a good card, and I hope no one takes offense at my observations here. I mean no insult to Johnny or anyone at EFC, I'm just pointing out a fact...these smaller shows are money losers for the commission.

Regulating these smaller MMA shows, gym shows and masked midget wrestling at Mexican restaurants is why the commission will go broke without the tax on combat sports PPV buys. The 5% tax on ticket sales and concessions for events with 300 or less fans doesn't even cover the labor costs for the inspectors at the event.

When the state does lose the 4% tax on combat sports PPV buys, it will not be able to continue to regulate these smaller shows without imposing a mandatory minimum fee of at least $1,500 per event,regardless of the gross ticket sales.

300 tickets x $25 = $7,500 @ 5% = $375

6 inspectors x $175 = $1,050

The commission loses $650 per event and nothing is earned towards paying the salaries or office expenses of the commission.

Imposing such a mandatory minimum regulation fee would probably reduce the number of these shows, but it would end the shows that lose money for the commission.

Congrats again on a good card.
3/20/12 3:31 PM
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Zilla2000
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That is a very good assessment. Unless some other subsidy is found, the OSAC will have no choice but to pass the cost along to the promoter to continue regulating. Some considerations are made such as fewer inspectors to reduce the overhead to the state but it is still a losing battle under current protocol.

I wonder how our event fees measure up to what promoters are paying in states without PPV buyrate monies.
3/20/12 10:24 PM
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jujitsujamo
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Considering the small amount the UFC is paying, I am surprised they are even bothering. Legal fees will cost them nearly the amount they will save. I do understand their point - why should they have to pay to support the boxing commission overseeing other MMA shows and pro wrestling.

Jim Ross has stated that talks are under way to guarantee the WWE gets to have its shows here in October. So hopefully pro wrestling will be classified as sports entertainment here and not a combat sport - just like it is classified in some other states. Phone Post
3/20/12 10:41 PM
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liquidsoul
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WWE is an event that sells thousand of tickets and the 5% the OSAC gets is a profit center for the commission. These are not theevents that "need to work something out", WWE more than pays for itself in the state.
3/21/12 12:31 PM
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Zilla2000
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The other problem is the UFC is also trying to set precendent regarding the sharing of PPV buys with the states. Currently there are only 4 states that do this. The UFC wants to make sure the other 46 states do not do the same thing. Then that $80k per state adds up quickly - $4 Million yearly is a much bigger piece of their pie.
3/21/12 11:41 PM
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jjmarine1
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THE OSAC IS A STATE ORGANIZATION RIGHT? DOES THE STATE NOT SUBSIDIZE THE OSAC IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM? I DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT THAT, JUST ASKING.
3/22/12 1:00 PM
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Zilla2000
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Correct. Currently the state does not provide any funding whatsoever to the OSAC.
3/22/12 5:49 PM
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jujitsujamo
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How do other states fund their athletic commissions? What is most common? Phone Post
3/26/12 9:37 AM
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Zilla2000
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Mostly are just departments of the state and on the state budget.
3/27/12 1:08 AM
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CrazyEye
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1st- Idabel sold over 1,000 tickets
2nd why do we need to pay 6 inspectors
Need 1 at the table, 2 inspectors in the back 2 at ringside with the fight.
The adminstrator elected to not put into the general fund 2-3 years ago.  That is why the state isn't helping them now, it was OSAC that didn't want to put in. 
The money is there, it just isn't being managed worth a shit.  Just like paying inspectors to drive from OKC when you have 3-4 within 10 miles of hardrock......wasted money.

3/27/12 12:32 PM
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liquidsoul
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Edited: 03/27/12 12:33 PM
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The official attendance for the Idabel show on the OSAC report was 316.

Although the commission chooses the inspectors, at Hard Rock, I pay the inspectors as part of the compact with the state.
3/27/12 1:09 PM
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liquidsoul
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Date: 3-17-12
City: Idabell,Ok
Promoter: Johnny Caldwell
Promotion: Elite III
Venue: Kicker's Klub
Attendance : 316

From the OSAC official report.


Again,I'm not knocking Johnny or his show,he's a good dude, I'm only pointing out the math. With 200 shows this size [including gym shows and masked midget wrestling] the commission loses a lot of money because the 5% on the ticket sales does not cover the cost of the event inspectors, much less contributing to the rent,bills,salaries, insurance, legal fees and operating expenses of the commission.

At events where the casinos have compacted with the state [Hard Rock and Buffalo Run] the promoter [Dale Cook, Tony Holden] pays for set sanction fee, plus all the inspectors and officials that work the show. So these shows do not cost the commission $$$ to regulate.

The solutions offered are: like Ty said, use less inspectors per event, raise the minimum fee to regulate the smaller events, raise the rate on the few events that are profitable for the commission, raise all lisence fees [fighters,judges,doctors,cornermen etc] or find funding from the state in a down economy.

I'm sure one or more of the above will come together to solve the problem, but wasn't it nice when the highly profitable UFC, WEE,and Don King were contributing 4% of Oklahoma PPV buys to the commission?

3/27/12 4:51 PM
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Zilla2000
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In 2011 the state sanctioned 279 live events. Only 67 of these were MMA/Boxing. That leaves 212 events that were professional wrestling. We only get 2 WWE shows in Oklahoma per year so that leaves 210 local pro wrestling events to regulate. Each one of these events gets one (1) inspector. The event permit is only $25 and these events routinely will draw less than 100 people at around $5/ea so 5% gate would only be $25. If it is $175 per inspector, that means the state would lose approx. $125 per show. Multiply that by 210 shows. That's $26,250 the state is out on pro wrestling alone, which is 75% of the events sanctioned in this state.

Now using DAC's model above on the Elite show, lets say the state loses $650 per small MMA event. With only 67 MMA shows being sanctioned, if the state lost on every single show it sanctioned, that would be $43,550. The number is likely smaller than that as several of these 67 shows had large enough gates to cover OSAC expenses for that event.

So if the state has exactly as many shows this year as they did in 2011, it is within the realm of possibilities that the state would lose a total of $69,800.00 on events alone.

That figure does not include any licensing fees. You could conservatively estimate at 10 licenses per MMA show ($25/ea for a fighter/corner licesnse), at least 20 officials yearly licenses ($25/ea), at least 50 pro wrestling licenses ($25/ea) per year. That is a total of approx. $18,500.

That brings the total amount lost by the OSAC down to $51,300.00 yearly before rent, utilities, and payroll for two full time employees which could easily be another $100,000.00.

Now these are all estimates but should be a close approximation. The state will need to come up with another $150,000.00 per year to operate as they did last year.
3/28/12 6:42 AM
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CrazyEye
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 Myabe they meant $1000 in tickets sold, lol.
IMHO, the man is a legend but the only reason that we regulate pro wrestling is because of who our chairman of the commision is.
I don't know if any other state regulates it or not, I don't believe they do, so get rid of that, if they want to scratch each other with barb wire who cares.
I knew the comission picked the inspectors, I was just saying that that is an extra expense.  They get paid travel and reimbursed hotel.  Why do that if you have inspectors with the same qualifications within 5 miles.  They still get what the promoter pays them as compacted.  Thats where the other expense goes out.  This happens continuously on many shows.
When they elected to have the tax in 04, that was also when they quit partaking or contributing to the general fund for the state, now it has bit them in the ass.  It made them look like were self sufficient, therefore justifying some jobs.
3/28/12 8:31 AM
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jujitsujamo
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Pro wrestling should be classified as sports entertainment not combat sports - just as it is in many other states. Thats a big chunk of the states losses right there. Phone Post
3/28/12 8:48 PM
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Zilla2000
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Looking closer at professional wrestling...The WWE has 2 shows in Oklahoma each year: 1 in OKC and 1 in Tulsa.

Let's say 10,000 tickets are sold (9/22/09 Smackdown in Tulsa sold 10k+ per Wikipedia). The OSAC gets 5% of the gate. Assuming the average ticket price is $30, the state would make $15,000.

Now multiply that by 2 shows and that is very close to being enough to pay for the sanctioning of all 210 other professional wrestling events in the state as I outlined above.
3/28/12 9:00 PM
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jujitsujamo
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Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades

- Gorilla Monsoon Phone Post
3/29/12 10:12 AM
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Stunpals
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Very good conversation here.

I hope the right people in the right places are paying attention.

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