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UnderGround Forums >> Shamrock fires back at White over fighter pay


3/19/12 11:15 PM
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Underground Blog
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"I don't like to come in and say, 'I've done this and I've done that,' because really, it takes a village to make something happen," he said."It takes a lot of people to make it successful. And to hear Dana White say, 'I did this and I did that. It was me. And he didn't do this and didn't do that.' Well, how in the world did they get to where they were at if it was just Dana? Because I didn't see him in the ring. I didn't see Dana fighting. I didn't see the numbers go up when they had just Tito there. I didn't see any of that.

"What I saw was me getting in there, building an organization, having a feud with Tito Ortiz to help build those numbers, along with Dana White and the corporation and the company to shoot that feud," he continued. "And also to have Tito there, who was a great villain -- to have someone going against me. And that's how we did those numbers. Because we all got involved and did it."

Shamrock said his issue with fighter pay was based upon his belief that the UFC will not let anyone look at their financials to see what ratio of profit the fighters are earning.

He says even in his own case where White said he made $2.5 million, how can anyone be sure?

"They will never let you get in there and see the books," he said. "It's not open. So then they make statements like that, and it doesn't make sense."

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3/19/12 11:17 PM
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hankhill
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UFC = Mafia?
3/19/12 11:17 PM
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crowbar
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Shammy didn`t deny the $60,000 that Dana said they gave him,and he didn`t deny the 2.5 million either.
3/19/12 11:36 PM
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kelby
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sunnyko - 
crowbar - Shammy didn`t deny the $60,000 that Dana said they gave him,and he didn`t deny the 2.5 million either.
You're completely missing his point... <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>

yes he is missing the point. and who cares about the measily 60 grand. dana knew he would make millions out of that feud.
3/19/12 11:37 PM
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FRAZTV
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Zzzzz....

Same old rambling story again.
3/19/12 11:49 PM
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CindyO
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 "Don't even fucking pretend like this is news!"


-smoogy:)
3/19/12 11:59 PM
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JohnnyChrist
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Whatever happens, I hope this thread doesn't become too disrespectful to a man who has done more for this sport than most.
3/20/12 12:01 AM
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un3rgr0und
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If you're looking to Ken Shamrock to validate some theory you have about the UFC or Dana White you have already lost the argument

Ken Shamrock is so far off his rocker its ridiculous, some of his interviews are nutty as hell
3/20/12 12:08 AM
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Funaki Masakatsu #1
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Ken Shamrock was very respectful towards Dana in the interview and came off VERY well spoken. Go watch the video instead of reading a transcript.

He also noted that in every major sports organization you have players feuding with ownership over pay. It is very common everywhere. Ken pointed this out as a reason why he said Dana didn't have to go apeshit about it. It's in the NFL, MLB, NBA...not just the UFC. Phone Post
3/20/12 12:13 AM
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Acidic
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 how is what Ken just said wrong? lol some of you people dont even fucking read.

Isnt it obvious Dana has a huge ego? i dont know how anyone can not see that
3/20/12 12:24 AM
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Funaki Masakatsu #1
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I wish Dana would just say, "fuck it Ken, we had our beef and I don't like the things you said but you did so much good for this company and the UFC, we wouldn't be at the level we are at today without you, let's squash this right now and get back on good terms." Phone Post
3/20/12 12:36 AM
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DanEzra
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Is it really 'firing back' when it takes him several months to come up with a reply?
3/20/12 12:40 AM
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Funaki Masakatsu #1
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DanEzra - Is it really 'firing back' when it takes him several months to come up with a reply?
Actually, he already responded shortly after Dana blasted him. This was Ken answering questions asked to him by Ariel during an interview. Phone Post
3/20/12 12:52 AM
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rockwell
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 Fuck anyone who says anything bad on Ken Shamrock.

If you are a fan of MMA (like him or not) you owe Ken Shamrock.
3/20/12 1:23 AM
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12SixElbow
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 Ken doesn't come off bad at all, people should watch the video before commenting.

IMO Ken comes off better than Dana does.
Ken sold PPV's, his fued with Tito was HUGE,
he even says he doesn't wanna say he did anything, because it took a lot of people to make it a success.
(Ken even says his pay was fair, and he made the deal)

The UFC does NOT treat people well, its sad.
Ken Shamrock, MMA legend, half a fucking page in the UFC book and Arianny gets a full page.
Complete fucking joke.

3/20/12 1:52 AM
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PJ Benn Fan
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"I don't like to come in and say, 'I've done this and I've done that,"

Ummm yeah you do ken!

If you dont like to do that why does your legacy and contribution to the sport come up in EVERY interview/statement you do/make?

Now does ken have a point? Maybe yeah

But at the end of the day dana really has done more good than bad and he openly admits he was against TUF so there is at least some ownership and accountability from Dana's standpoint.
Plus dana will admit when hes wrong about certain fighters

Ken on the other hand?
When has ken ever owned up to anything?

His relationship with frank?
Franks fault

His fued with tito?
Tito is a punk

His lawsuit with the ufc?
They owe me a fight even though i am not even close to that level anymore and would get smoked in 30 seconds by jason brilz but i want my 250k because i blew through all the money i have made and dont have much left.

Did Ken ever make a statement on when he got popped for his very obvious juicing?
Or was that dana's fault too? Phone Post
3/20/12 2:05 AM
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valetudosuperfight
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LOL sorry Penn douche but Cindy's jaws work dana, not you bitch.
3/20/12 2:07 AM
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Mr.Negative
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 why when these guys are talking about money do they ABSOLUTELY NEVER FUCKING MENTION THE 10'S OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARDS THE ZUFFAS BURNT THROUGH when they were trying to build this sport from the shithole it was in?

did any of these guys have to work for free? nope.

did any of them ever get stiffed like has happened recently in other organizations? nope.

did anyone of them offer to work for free in exchange for stock in the company? nope, not that we know.

all we know is for fucking years these guys were getting PAID by a business that WAS LOSING MONEY. yet now when the company is making bank they all have their hand out. and fighter pay HAS gone up over the years. but they've all got their hand out for MORE. stunning.
3/20/12 2:52 AM
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valetudosuperfight
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stunning that people who could get killed or disabled doing their sport for their non-athletic performers would want money.

I totally see where you are coming from.

It's the dumbest fuck position you could take, but I see it.
3/20/12 3:02 AM
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onepunchJD
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Guys who LITERALLY made modern MMA what it is today... Guys like Ken Shamrock, Dan Severn, Mark Coleman, etc... should be getting a nice check in the mail after EVERY UFC PPV... PERIOD.

How many noobs realize that Ken Shamrock actually fought in the FIRST Pancrase event, AND the FIRST UFC, and he was a CHAMPION of both promptions, AND beat and had rivalries with the TOP fighters of BOTH promotions?

Only the Gracie family can rival Ken Shamrock when it comes to having a significant influence on modern MMA.

Ken Shamrock was helping to create what would become "MMA", before Dana White had ever even heard of it.

Both Ken and Frank Shamrock, got HALF of a page in the UFC Encyclopeia... while Dan Severn and Royce Gracie, among others, got 4 pages!!!

Ken has literally bled for this sport. He has fought battles both in and out of the cage/ring to support MMA as we know it. He has debated with politicians, appeared on talk shows and in magazines... and even brought HUGE publicity through the "dark years" with his WWF career. He did all of this BEFORE it was popular, without knowing wether MMA would take off, or fail... just because he LOVES the sport he LITERALLY helped to create on a global scale.

Ken Shamrock is not perfect. He has made mistakes in his life, just like EVERY other human being. BUT.. he is either directly or in-directly responsible for a BIG part of NHB/MMA history... and is a BIG part of the reason why we are all posting on a forum like this today.

EVERY modern MMA fighter is standing on the shoulders of the pioneers of this sport. The old-school founders of MMA were a diferent breed of man... fighting with more risk, for less gain. They stepped into the ring/cage with full confidence in their individual abilities, and without full understanding of their opponents. They did all of this in an almost "underground" sport, without big time sponsers, and without big time pay... (at least not on a regular basis).

Not only did the pioneers of MMA push the popularity of the sport through it's "hardcore" fans... They also created the learning curve of MMA technique that every "modern" fighter is currently learning. It was a process of trial and error, taking place over years of REAL "NHB" fights, and passed along through dubbed VHS recordings, from fan to fighter to fan, like a valuable treasure... and passed along on sweaty mats, in unknown "Dojos" across the world, by real fighters like the guys in Ken Shamrock's Lions Den... that truly made MMA in to the mainstream "sport" it is today.

Ken Shamrock took Zuffa to court... and he lost. Thats it, and thats all. It's time to put the disagreements in the past, and give a true legend of MMA his due credit. Zuffa/Dana can only make themselves look better by taking the high road in situations like this.

If it were not for guys like Ken Shamrock... there would be no Zuffa owned UFC. Modern "MMA" might consist of underground events in Japan, and on native reservations in the U.S.

Newer fans just don't know, what a long road it was to the double edged sword that is "mainstream MMA".

The evolution of modern MMA has been, IMHO, one of the most exciting and interesting aspects of human history. I make this statement with true passion, and zero exaggeration.

Ken Shamrock is one of the most important parts of that history. As much as Zuffa/Dana have done for MMA... they owe Ken Shamrock, among others, a lifetime of respect and gratitude for their success.
3/20/12 3:03 AM
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bullstopperz
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dana is a scumbag in my eyes, couldnt fight his way out of a fucking paper bag. like general in an army. fake.
3/20/12 4:50 AM
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onepunchJD
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BTW -

That was an AWESOME interview from Ken! As usual, he was well spoken and gave an honest insider perspective. Ken has been around since the beggining. Few people have the knowledge and experience he does when it comes to the evolution of MMA, from both inside and outside the cage.

Like Ken says himself.. you don't have to agree with everything he says.

But IMO this is a must see interview for any true MMA fan.

It really is one of the best interviews I have seen.

..... Also.... Ken pretty much owned Dana with his responses. Seriously.. Dana drops the F-Bomb left and right, and constantly downplays the careers of fighters who aren't in his pocket at the moment. He acts like some kind of tough guy... and the REAL tough guy, Ken Shamrock, keeps it real without resorting to childish insults.
3/20/12 8:34 AM
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Whambo
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Mr.Negative -  why when these guys are talking about money do they ABSOLUTELY NEVER FUCKING MENTION THE 10'S OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARDS THE ZUFFAS BURNT THROUGH when they were trying to build this sport from the shithole it was in?

did any of these guys have to work for free? nope.

did any of them ever get stiffed like has happened recently in other organizations? nope.

did anyone of them offer to work for free in exchange for stock in the company? nope, not that we know.

all we know is for fucking years these guys were getting PAID by a business that WAS LOSING MONEY. yet now when the company is making bank they all have their hand out. and fighter pay HAS gone up over the years. but they've all got their hand out for MORE. stunning.<br type="_moz" />


Wtf are you babbling about? Stock in the company? This is the first time anyone has mentioned that, you're assuming the company would have even entertained such an idea.

The fact is the company is making hand over fist, and the fighters are looking for a fair share of the pay. You seem to think that the company alone should decide on what's fair. You're a bit nutty I can tell.

What Shamrock is saying, is what a lot of people are saying. The %'s of revenue that the UFC is paying out is essentially all a guess. They mask what they actually pay through backroom payouts and other nondisclosed pay.
3/20/12 9:05 AM
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PJ Benn Fan
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valetudosuperfight - LOL sorry Penn douche but Cindy's jaws work dana, not you bitch.

Wow, well thought out response from a valued lone time member of this site since 2011.

Typical really!


Like I said, Ken isnt 100 % wrong.

And I am not even that big of a supporter of Dana, but at the end of the day there is no denying he has done more good than bad.

Does he have his off days? Sure.

Is he wrong sometimes or does he cross the line? Yeah

But Ken loves to dish out blame on others but when was the last time he has taken accountability for HIS actions?

Whos fault was it that he got busted for roids?

Whos fault is it he has very little money left over after all the years of work he put in?

I respect Ken for what he did in the cage but thats honestly as far as my respect goes for him.
Just because hes a legend and fought other legends doesnt mean hes right all the time and that his opinions should be the be all end all of any debate.

Doesnt mean hes wrong either BTW but I am just pointing out he sure loves to toss blame around!


3/20/12 9:16 AM
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Kanabull
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Shamrock makes everyone else look ignorant when it comes to this stuff, and people don't like that. He's been there since the beginning and he knows Dana better than any of the Internet geniuses who tirelessly defend him on here.

I love how people completely disregard his opinion and call him "nutty". Phone Post

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