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3/20/12 3:57 PM
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TheKidAintMine
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notsobigmike - I don't understand what Shamrock wants.

UFC fronted him money when he needed it.

He got slot coaching on TUF.

He made MILLIONS of dollars off the two Tito rematches, neither of which were really warranted.

He's in the Hall of Fame.

Fighters are making rock-star money, now. What exactly is his big beef?


Good points.

What exactly does Shammy want out of all this? Does he want one more fight?
3/20/12 5:11 PM
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CindyO
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valetudosuperfight - I watched and listened to the whole segment. What he said about TRT resonated with me pretty well. I think hormone therapy should be regulated for people who need it. If Dan Marino could have kept playing well till he was 50 I would have been fine with that.

He's also right that we've had 30 years to try and do something about steroids in sports but we have not.

Shamrock seems to make a distinction between testosterone and natural hormones and things like dbol or deca. I think he should probably learn more about hormone balance before he assumes that it is harmless. Age therapy is also an odd field and likely requires scrutiny and regulation.

The rest he said about dana is spot on. DW is not the UFC he just helps promote it. Tito v. shamrock was one of the greatest rivalries ever even if some of the fighting was a little disappointing as the years went on. Facts are facts: before Shamrock came back the UFC was close to shutting its doors. What the fuck does Shamrock owe Dana?

Close to $200,000=) And retarded interviews like this one are a sure-fire way to make sure DW remembers to collect it.

Cindy
3/20/12 6:40 PM
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notsobigmike
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Silverball - 
notsobigmike - I don't understand what Shamrock wants.

UFC fronted him money when he needed it.

He got slot coaching on TUF.

He made MILLIONS of dollars off the two Tito rematches, neither of which were really warranted.

He's in the Hall of Fame.

Fighters are making rock-star money, now. What exactly is his big beef?


Which rock stars would those be? Ozzy Osbourne? Metallica? There's no way. How about hip hop stars, like Jay Z? Kanye? Is it possible that the UFC is paying fighters THAT much more behind closed doors? There's no way of knowing for sure, but it seems as likely as M1 negotiating a 50/50 split with Zuffa.



If you have any friends trying to make it as a band, ask them how they would feel about making 8 figures a year.

That's close enough to "rock star" money.
3/20/12 7:55 PM
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Silverball
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notsobigmike - 
Silverball - 
notsobigmike - I don't understand what Shamrock wants.

UFC fronted him money when he needed it.

He got slot coaching on TUF.

He made MILLIONS of dollars off the two Tito rematches, neither of which were really warranted.

He's in the Hall of Fame.

Fighters are making rock-star money, now. What exactly is his big beef?


Which rock stars would those be? Ozzy Osbourne? Metallica? There's no way. How about hip hop stars, like Jay Z? Kanye? Is it possible that the UFC is paying fighters THAT much more behind closed doors? There's no way of knowing for sure, but it seems as likely as M1 negotiating a 50/50 split with Zuffa.



If you have any friends trying to make it as a band, ask them how they would feel about making 8 figures a year.

That's close enough to "rock star" money.


Who's making 8 figures in MMA?
3/20/12 8:00 PM
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Calhoon
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JohnnyChrist - 
UGCTT_LnPninja - 
RyannVonDoom - 
JohnnyChrist - Whatever happens, I hope this thread doesn't become too disrespectful to a man who has done more for this sport than most.


It will. Anyone who goes against Zuffa will feel their wrath.

 Funny how you cannot know who J.Christ was talking about, but assume it was Shammy not Dana. ;-)


OOPS hahaha I meant Ken Shamrock, but I assume most people figured that ;)

lol, Ninja does not have common sense. Most people who read your comment understood perfectly.
3/20/12 8:01 PM
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Calhoon
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Nice posts Onepunch!
3/20/12 8:05 PM
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12SixElbow
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PJ Benn Fan -

But at the end of the day dana really has done more good than bad and he openly admits he was against TUF so there is at least some ownership and accountability from Dana's standpoint.
Plus dana will admit when hes wrong about certain fighters

Ken on the other hand?
When has ken ever owned up to anything?

His relationship with frank?
Franks fault

His fued with tito?
Tito is a punk

 Lol @ Dana owning up to anything.

On Firing jon Fitch for a day? Fitch's fault
On Dana's relationship with Frank Shamrock? Frank is a punk
On Dana's relationship with Tito? Tito is a punk
On not signing certain fighters? They don't want to fight the best
On Bad judging? Don't leave it in the hands of the judges
etc..

The list goes on and on, aside from TUF, I've never seen Dana say he was wrong about anything.
He has done a lot of good for the UFC and for MMA, but he is also an arrogant, cock bastard who most UFC fighters who cut down if they could.

3/20/12 8:08 PM
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valetudosuperfight
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Makes you sound like an ungrateful bitch. Shamrock would crush you in an interview, but go ahead: keep lobbing your harmless cinder blocks.
3/20/12 8:18 PM
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Calhoon
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mrwhipple - Dave Meltzer once criticized a documentary on Pro wrestling for rewriting history by saying:

"imagine a documentary on the NBA where the name of Wilt Chamberlain was not even mentioned and where history was recreated to where Michael Jordan claimed to have invented the slam dunk and where the recent commissioner was credited with the idea of putting the NBA on prime-time television."

There is something very unreal about MMA and how so many of its fans seem to actively take part in the rewriting of its history.

It's not only the fans who are rewriting history.
3/20/12 8:19 PM
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Marauder28
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I don't understand why this continues to be an argument. Ken played a large role in helping to bring the UFC to what it is today. I don't believe anyone will disagree with that. So what does Ken want?

Does he want to fight in the UFC? Sorry, no. I don't care to see that. It would be cruel and inhumane.

Does he want a piece of the action? Sorry, no. It works like every business ever created. If you work for a company and want a piece of future earnings that you feel you will help create, you take an equity stake in lieu of cash payment. He clearly did not.

Open up the books for the world to see? Sorry, no. It is a private company. Only shareholders, and the government, should be allowed to see that. Also, as I understand it, fighters are allowed to bring in auditors to check all the numbers for any event they fight in. So, every fighter has the opportunity to make sure they get their fair share, if a percentage of sales is part of their contract that is.

I respect Ken Shamrock for what he did in the early days. But now, everything he is doing and saying is without merit and class, and very unprofessional.
3/20/12 8:37 PM
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valetudosuperfight
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Shamrock mentioned that fighters are not allowed to see the numbers and if you had watched the video you would not make the mocking claim that Shamrock is unprofessional.
3/20/12 9:52 PM
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Outlaw'd by Lytle
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Poor little Ken. Phone Post
3/20/12 10:11 PM
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onepunchJD
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CindyO - 
valetudosuperfight - I watched and listened to the whole segment. What he said about TRT resonated with me pretty well. I think hormone therapy should be regulated for people who need it. If Dan Marino could have kept playing well till he was 50 I would have been fine with that.

He's also right that we've had 30 years to try and do something about steroids in sports but we have not.

Shamrock seems to make a distinction between testosterone and natural hormones and things like dbol or deca. I think he should probably learn more about hormone balance before he assumes that it is harmless. Age therapy is also an odd field and likely requires scrutiny and regulation.

The rest he said about dana is spot on. DW is not the UFC he just helps promote it. Tito v. shamrock was one of the greatest rivalries ever even if some of the fighting was a little disappointing as the years went on. Facts are facts: before Shamrock came back the UFC was close to shutting its doors. What the fuck does Shamrock owe Dana?

Close to $200,000=) And retarded interviews like this one are a sure-fire way to make sure DW remembers to collect it.

Cindy


What was retarded about it?

Ken qualified everything he said. He was respectful, and pretty much on the money.
3/20/12 10:16 PM
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onepunchJD
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Mr.Negative -  get this through your head.

helio did not create the UFC.

helio did not create vale tudo.

royce is in the UFC HOF.

Rorion, Art Davie and John Milius, the creators of the UFC, are not in the UFC HOF. Helio has ZERO business in the UFC HOF.

hell, getting back to the focus of the thread, a case could be made that ken has no business in the UFC. considering that he left when things got tough (for more money of course) and didn't return until the money got better and then proceded to suck horribly imo doesn't guarantee oneself a spot in said HOF.

for example, not everyone who was on the 1927 yankees world series team is in the basball HOF. i mean, look at kens last 10-15 years in the sport:

1-4 in the UFC with his only win over a washed up Kimo.
since 2000 (when he came back from the WWF) he's 5-10 with the 5 victories over fighters with a W/L record of 57-96-3. here's the breakdown.

ivey- 30-46
clifton- 6-10
kimo- 10-7-1
adkins- 7-20-1
otsuka- 4-13

so, how again is guy deserving of a spot in the UFC? just because he was one of the original fighters? like i said, if we're going to apply the same logic to all sports, then why isn't the kicker from the 85 bears superbowl team in the NFL HOF? why isn't the 2nd baseman from the 86 mets in the HOF? they all helped their team get to and win the championship, why aren't they given the same honor as some of their teammates?


Ken is not some kicker or second baseman...

He is realistically one of the most important fighters/trainers/ and overall personalities in MMA history.

I think Ken wants a little more credit from Zuffa. They pretty much slapped him in the face in the encyclopedia.

And BTW.. Ken got old, injured, and he is stubborn. But he was kicking Fujitas ass.. and he arguably should have won the Frye fight, or at least a draw. So talking about his record the past few years, is really a low blow.
3/20/12 10:32 PM
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12
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UGCTT_LnPninja -  This thread is amazing. Anyone who offers anything that does not 100% agree with Ken's stance gets called a n00b and a shill. Pathetic that you "old skool" wannabe fucks cannot even have an intelligent discussion about it, or see BOTH sides of the situation. 

As expected everything has to be taken to the extreme, and everyone who even slightly defends Dana gets attacked. Sad. 

Ken Shamrock (and Frank) said and did some shitty things too  guys. There is a reasson they got blackballed in the encyclopedia (who the fuck really cares about a damn book anyhow). 

LMAO@ the guy who wrote the FRAT. NOt for the FRAT because it was actually very nice, but for claiming that Shammy/Severn should get royalties for every UFC PPV. That is some funny shit.

 lol,the shill comments r dana fault.he paid  guys to come on here and speak up for  the ufc and him.
no one would be called a shill if the dumb fuck didnt get caught
3/20/12 10:39 PM
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onepunchJD
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Calhoon - 
mrwhipple - Dave Meltzer once criticized a documentary on Pro wrestling for rewriting history by saying:

"imagine a documentary on the NBA where the name of Wilt Chamberlain was not even mentioned and where history was recreated to where Michael Jordan claimed to have invented the slam dunk and where the recent commissioner was credited with the idea of putting the NBA on prime-time television."

There is something very unreal about MMA and how so many of its fans seem to actively take part in the rewriting of its history.

It's not only the fans who are rewriting history.



This and This.
3/21/12 12:04 AM
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smoogy
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Cindy always responds with with intellectual dishonesty when there is an interesting thread like this that portrays Dana's mental midgetry in a poor light.

Most of Ken's contributions have been covered by others, but I just want to reiterate for the newer fans just how instrumental Ken was in virtually every major success for Zuffa up until the second Couture-Liddell fight (and then some).

UFC 40 (Shamrock vs. Ortiz) - First Zuffa PPV that wasn't a complete turd at the box office. First Zuffa event that really had any TV coverage, which was granted almost entirely on the drawing power of Ken (at this point nobody knows who Dana is).

UFC 48 (Shamrock vs. Kimo II) - Not exactly the most beloved or historically important PPV but this event outdrew the first Ortiz-Liddell fight in PPV buys and was one of the successes that led directly to the original season of TUF.

TUF 1 Finale (Shamrock vs. Franklin) - If you listened to Dana you'd think Bonnar and Griffin was the only big fight that night, but the TV spots for this fight were all about Ken Shamrock. UFC went back to their unequivocal #1 draw to headline the most important event in Zuffa history.

UFC 61 (Shamrock vs. Ortiz II) - Biggest selling Zuffa PPV of all time up to that point.

UFC: The Final Chapter (Shamrock vs. Ortiz III) - Highest rated UFC telecast of all time up to that point.
3/21/12 12:14 AM
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Funaki Masakatsu #1
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smoogy - Cindy always responds with with intellectual dishonesty when there is an interesting thread like this that portrays Dana's mental midgetry in a poor light.

Most of Ken's contributions have been covered by others, but I just want to reiterate for the newer fans just how instrumental Ken was in virtually every major success for Zuffa up until the second Couture-Liddell fight (and then some).

UFC 40 (Shamrock vs. Ortiz) - First Zuffa PPV that wasn't a complete turd at the box office. First Zuffa event that really had any TV coverage, which was granted almost entirely on the drawing power of Ken (at this point nobody knows who Dana is).

UFC 48 (Shamrock vs. Kimo II) - Not exactly the most beloved or historically important PPV but this event outdrew the first Ortiz-Liddell fight in PPV buys and was one of the successes that led directly to the original season of TUF.

TUF 1 Finale (Shamrock vs. Franklin) - If you listened to Dana you'd think Bonnar and Griffin was the only big fight that night, but the TV spots for this fight were all about Ken Shamrock. UFC went back to their unequivocal #1 draw to headline the most important event in Zuffa history.

UFC 61 (Shamrock vs. Ortiz II) - Biggest selling Zuffa PPV of all time up to that point.

UFC: The Final Chapter (Shamrock vs. Ortiz III) - Highest rated UFC telecast of all time up to that point.
This exactly. Couldn't have said it any better. Phone Post
3/21/12 1:15 AM
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rockwell
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disbeliever - Nothing he said was un-true. Guys like Chuck, Tito and Ken carried the sport and allowed it to stay relevant long enough to grow. Without them, the UFC could have died.

It doesn't surprise me he does not get credit he deserves though. We have people like Mask in the UFC HOF, yet when Helio died he was not put into it. Really? Without the gracies, BJJ or Helio, the UFC would never have existed in the first place.

I think the UFC and Dana like to think only about the present and future, but forget the past either intentionally or just out of ignorance. Its great what Dana and company have done with the UFC, but keep it real and give props to the people who CREATED the UFC and kept it alive so it could grow
And THIS is exactly why MMA will never be seen as a legitimate sport under the command of Dana.

When was the last time Roger Goodell or Bud Selig chatting shit about former players or guys who play in other leagues? When do they downplay the accomplishments of guys who play in other leagues?
 
3/21/12 3:08 AM
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Macedawgg
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mrwhipple - 
valetudosuperfight - Shamrock mentioned that fighters are not allowed to see the numbers and if you had watched the video you would not make the mocking claim that Shamrock is unprofessional.

According to FrontRowBrian: "Ken Shamrock not correct about UFC's PPV books being completely closed. Fighters w/ PPV cuts have audit rights after 4 fights ..BUT And a BIG but.... if you audit the UFC's PPV numbers, you run the risk of them finding some way of punishing you. They're petty.”



Yup, if you exercise your pay per view audit rights, you are subject to repercussion.

Further, aside form PPV purchases, and some limited merch deals, these are the only aspects of the books that are open.

With people now saying in public that the Zuffa crew owns 11% to 20% of TapOut, and have for years, Maysey's quote not seeming so ridiculous now, is it????
3/21/12 5:32 AM
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GrayMaynardsTrampStamp
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 LOL@ cindy using smoogy's quote like they're cool  and then smoogy shitting on her with facts.
3/21/12 7:44 AM
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novaguy
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Edited: 03/21/12 7:44 AM
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 Why do people think that a fighter must have undying loyalty, and stick with the UFC through thick and through thin, no matter what, to deserve a place in the UFC HOF?

And why do they also think that it should have ANYTHING to do with their record in the last 10 years??

Some of you people havent got the slightest clue what the HOF is all about....

 
3/21/12 8:05 AM
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torquemada
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CindyO -  "Don't even fucking pretend like this is news!"


-smoogy:)
:) Phone Post
3/21/12 10:24 AM
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notsobigmike
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Silverball - 
notsobigmike - 
Silverball - 
notsobigmike - I don't understand what Shamrock wants.

UFC fronted him money when he needed it.

He got slot coaching on TUF.

He made MILLIONS of dollars off the two Tito rematches, neither of which were really warranted.

He's in the Hall of Fame.

Fighters are making rock-star money, now. What exactly is his big beef?


Which rock stars would those be? Ozzy Osbourne? Metallica? There's no way. How about hip hop stars, like Jay Z? Kanye? Is it possible that the UFC is paying fighters THAT much more behind closed doors? There's no way of knowing for sure, but it seems as likely as M1 negotiating a 50/50 split with Zuffa.



If you have any friends trying to make it as a band, ask them how they would feel about making 8 figures a year.

That's close enough to "rock star" money.


Who's making 8 figures in MMA?


GSP just claimed to be making over $4 million per fight. Fighting twice a year, plus his other deals, he's easily making over $10 million a year.
3/21/12 11:49 AM
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Shogun of Harlem
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Let's lay the cards on the table and be honest.

For those that don't remember, the UFC was dead when Dana White took over. He made the contacts through the Fertittas to purchase the UFC. Through Zuffa the UFC has grown into what they are today.

Does Dana White come off as a dick sometimes? Yeah, but he has some reason for this. He is the president that took the risks to make this thing successful.

As for Ken Shamrock, well read his book, "Inside the Lion's Den" to see how delusional this guy really is. His record is inflated from early UFC and Pancrase fights. Since 2000, he was 5-10 when the competition became much better. He no longer could beat on the Christophe Leningers and Felix Mitchells.

The only appeal Ken had was his looks. He was marketable. As a fighter, no one considers him one of the best ever and it was by Dana's good graces he even put him in the Hall of Fame.

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