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UnderGround Forums >> Royce Gracie's 1994 Blackbelt?


3/23/12 12:38 AM
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26018
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Edited: 03/23/12 12:40 AM
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Black belt all the way. His BJJ for no-holds-barred fighting was WAY ahead of most black belts even today!!!

A lot of people may THINK they could have beaten all those tough guys like Royce did, since they know the moves he used, but most of them sure as hell couldn't really do it like he did.
3/23/12 1:02 AM
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Calhoon
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Edited: 03/23/12 1:09 AM
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I understand where the OP is coming from with this.

If you ask yourself what belt level a 1994 Royce would be competitive at in a major tournament in 2012, you have to admit that it would be much less than black belt level. However Royce was and is definitely at black belt level. Everyone knows his game was geared towards self-defense and everyone will admit that he knew his game like the back of his hand, every move in his game was as natural as walking is to him.

Besides, even though his game was geared more toward self-defense, there are plenty of black belts today who could not keep up with the 1994 version of Royce in a sportive competition, these other black belts just don't compete.
3/23/12 4:30 AM
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Mayweedz
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Dumb and disrespectful poll, honestly though in a lot of ways BJJ may have slid a little backwards as a martial and defensive art. Royce's 1994 BJJ might not have some of the fancy sport techniques of today, but are you really going to argue the real necessity of inverted, tornado, or even some of these deep half guards. They are cool and all and might be fun to play with, but they're also a good way to learn how to get pummeled in the head if some1 is striking. Kind of an example of form becoming more important than function.
3/23/12 4:51 AM
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PTM2020
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Royce Gracie Phone Post
3/23/12 5:28 AM
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Tapped Out Again
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Royce is a black belt through and through.

Kids always think the newest and latest is ten times better than last year's model. Get a little older and train a little, and you'll grow out of it.

TOA
3/23/12 7:54 AM
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bhealthy
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black belt. its about bjj not trt and roids bro
3/23/12 7:59 AM
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sawdusk
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how royce would have fared in sport BJJ is a different question than if his BB is somehow lesser of a BB than by today's standards... royce was never a tourney guy be it 1994 or 2012, but his BJJ was at a BB level then and would still be today by self defense standards...
3/23/12 8:52 AM
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antoniomontana
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Kirik -  He was an excellent black belt by any standards. Don't think time changes everything. Jack Johnson unquestionably would be heavyweight champion today.



Um, that actually could not be a more questionable statement. Vitali would murder him.
3/23/12 9:03 AM
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ColdKiller X
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He'd still be a fucking black belt, are modern MMA fighters who learn jiujitsu magical or something? Some of you are too ridiculous.

3/23/12 9:05 AM
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dudefromisrael
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VARIOUS -  No disresepct but I would say high purple when I watch UFC 1 and 2

This win still impresses me

<img alt="" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_zh-iTADe57o/SXryTOFUM9I/AAAAAAAAAa8/-rG1Gf2HCs0/s1600/minoki05.JPG" /><br type="_moz" />


Ichiara? Why?
3/23/12 9:09 AM
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antoniomontana
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I am sure there are many many guys now that could have handled 94 Royce in sport BJJ rules without much trouble but they could not replicate his UFC wins. Royce has the fighters mentality, which is rare.
3/23/12 9:14 AM
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ranier wolfcastle
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 i know everyone here hates laimon and laimon hates most gracies, but he said royce was like a high blue in his early ufcs
3/23/12 9:25 AM
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LordSeano
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Lol at comparing Royce's dominant nhb BJJ to today's sport BJJ and claiming that therefore he wasn't black belt standard.

Thats like saying because Andy Hug couldnt bust the same moves that the World Kata champion can do that he wasn't a black belt too

(ok not quite the same but you get the point)

Put any of the current top 180 lb sport BJJ guys in against a 250lb world class wrestler with proper NHB rules (headbutts etc) and see how slick their technique looks.
3/23/12 9:58 AM
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SlapUsilly
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Maybe not as good as some of his brothers, but definitely a black belt, now and then.

His BJJ is the BJJ that most of the current gen doesn't actually understand. Basics, basics basics. Might not win you a world title, but more than good enogh for any situation you throw at it. (except Matt Hughes)...
3/23/12 10:33 AM
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paw
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Archangel - You should be taken and flogged for questioning it.

 this
3/23/12 10:35 AM
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Cotton
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Black belt. Am I in a troll thread and not aware of it?
3/23/12 10:36 AM
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disbeliever
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lol @ questioning his BB
3/23/12 11:11 AM
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Tweener
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Who's Royce?

I think Lesnar would steamroll him. I'd say white belt - 2 stripes. Phone Post
3/23/12 11:27 AM
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FirstScratch
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I believe the question has more to do with the elevation of overall skill level in BJJ, and not so much as to question the legitimacy of Royce's black belt in '94. Someone would have to be extremely naive to believe the competitiveness of jiu jitsu within the ranks hasn't increased from '94 till now. There are way more students and much more access to advanced techniques today.
3/23/12 11:44 AM
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Unseen
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Edited: 03/23/12 11:54 AM
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 Many of you are comparing apples to oranges.  I won't use insults like "TUF Noob" but if you got into martial arts by waeching the UFC then you have a skewed view of what a black belt is.  Your average BB does not appear in the UFC or even Strikeforce or Bellator.  Top shelf MMA orgs today have two types of BBs.  World Champions (Olympians if BJJ was in the Olympics) and BBs who have years of MMA training on top of their BJJ.  

As to the first type no, Royce wasn't an Olympian in BJJ.  But neither are most BBs.  And most BBs would get smshed if they jumped into MMA without additinal training.  Not only did Royce not get smased he dominated.

As for the second type, yes if you sent GSP back in time he would beat a 1993 Royce.  But this is true because GSP is a BB (and well rounded fighter) due to Royce winning those early tournaments.  In other words without Royce winning in the past GSP would be a tough Karate guy in Canada today.

It's like saying an 1800's Colt wastn't a good gun when compared to a Glock today.  A lot of ghosts would beg to differ.
 
3/23/12 11:57 AM
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JudOWNED
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 I bet 1994 Royce would beat most top mundials guys in FIGHTS.  Either way, his black belt is legit as can be.
3/23/12 12:33 PM
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SKARHEAD
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HORRIBLE thread...In 1994 Royce already forgot more than any nearly all BBs will ever know.
3/23/12 12:33 PM
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UGCTT_Fillthy
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Kirik -  He was an excellent black belt by any standards. Don't think time changes everything. Jack Johnson unquestionably would be heavyweight champion today.



Larry Holmes would crush Jack Johnson.
3/23/12 12:35 PM
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SKARHEAD
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gusto - i wish some of the asshats that voted less than black belt could fight the 1994 ken shamrock in an nhb fight



Or a roided out kimo...or severn...or pat smith..keep in mind royce is nothing like these guys. He's built like a girl and weighs less
3/23/12 12:36 PM
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Thor
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The "average" black belt today doesn't know half of what the 1994 Royce Gracie knew at that time.

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