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BJJGround Forum >> My Grapplers Guide experience/GG 2.0


3/24/12 10:16 PM
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blackmonkey
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Hi everyone
Joined grapplers guide on a "Lifetime" membership however many years ago. Seemed like a decent deal for 85 bucks at the time. The deal included a T-shirt that I never got- Contacted Jason twice about this, got blanked the first time, got an e-mail the 2nd time asking my address and then never got anything. I figured he didn't want to send it to Japan and let it slide, as it wasn't worth the time and pursuing it and I was mainly interested in the content. The content has been pretty good and I log in from time to time when I get sick of videos to read forum comments and check out gameplans etc.
Have thought Jason's marketing of GG was borderline dodgy in the past-ie "there's only x memberships left before GG becomes a closed community FOREVER" and then coming out with the same spiel 6 months later.
Anyway got on today and tried to check out some content and got a Paid Users Only screen- checked I was logged in properly and then realized Jason's asking us to cough up $30 dollars a month to look at the new material . When I bought my membership the site was offering constant upgrades of the materials and claiming to be "dedicated 100% to the improvement of your grappling performance"-didn't see the small print saying "if you pay more on top of your "premium lifetime" membership".
Noticed a lot of regular posters have been upgraded to 2.0 -Would welcome any comments from Jason and other members on this..

TLDR- Feel ripped off that I can't access new content despite buying a premium lifetime membership--comments?
3/24/12 10:28 PM
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Rival School
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I love Jason's stuff but it does suck that now I can't at least see the old free stuff like the sheets for gameplans and other things :( Phone Post
3/25/12 12:34 AM
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jasculs
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You signed up 4 years ago for $87 and you still have access to all of the things you paid for...if I missed the t-shirt I apologize. I will refund all of your money. Please contact me so we can arrange refund.

The new content I supply is consultations and one on one game planning that I can not just give to people who paid one low fee.

As mentioned I would like to refund all of your money...

Or if you'd like I will send you a brand new Gameness for exchange of your current membership. Your choice.

Thank you,
Jason Phone Post
3/25/12 12:44 AM
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JRockwell
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Grappler's Guide is awesome on so many levels. My personal favorite thing is the positive atmosphere and specific technique/positional discussion on the forum there. There are no trolls or jackasses to criticize or mock you for opening yourself up, only people who are genuinely interested in improving their game and helping others. White belts to black belts sharing there every day, with no smack talk, no attitudes. There are a ton of other resources and benefits to his site, but that alone makes it worth it for me. Phone Post
3/25/12 1:42 AM
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blackmonkey
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Thanks for the reply Jason-the short and sweet videos you posted here are among the things not available to former 'lifetime members' so it's a little disingenuous to claim the consultations are the only things not available..
@Jeff It's a good site and I would have no complaints whatsoever if I'd been upgraded automatically as you no doubt were
3/25/12 5:18 AM
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cdog1955
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I also think Grappler's guide is great.

Everything there is a positive, as Jeff says there is nothing negative.

3/25/12 7:20 AM
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blackmonkey
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Just an update- Jason from Grapplers Guide followed through with his offer of a refund, which he chose to do over upgrading me. His site and his decision. He also took the time to write me a lengthy reply outlining his reasons for giving some members the automatic upgrade and requesting others who bought the exact same life membership pay for new content that he deems to have cost him too much time and money to be covered by the original membership. He didn't convince me, but I appreciated the effort.
3/25/12 10:17 AM
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vegard
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jasculs - You signed up 4 years ago for $87 and you still have access to all of the things you paid for...if I missed the t-shirt I apologize. I will refund all of your money. Please contact me so we can arrange refund.

The new content I supply is consultations and one on one game planning that I can not just give to people who paid one low fee.

As mentioned I would like to refund all of your money...

Or if you'd like I will send you a brand new Gameness for exchange of your current membership. Your choice.

Thank you,
Jason Phone Post
3/25/12 12:36 PM
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jhasan
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I'll go ahead and second the fact that the site is awesome. I was lucky enough to win membership in a contest, but I agree with the new content being worth extra money. The amount of time and work Jason puts into the site is absurd.
3/25/12 5:30 PM
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Kneeblock
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 Site is definitely awesome, but I was a little turned off by the 2.0 upgrade marketing too. I would've liked to see it as an iPhone/Android App if it was being more monetized rather than rescinding the "lifetime" agreement.
3/25/12 5:36 PM
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demandango
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correct me if i'm wrong, but i think people are thinking all the old stuff is gone...

you just have to go to

http://grapplersguide.com/forums/

to get to that stuff.

jasculs, perhaps you should have a link to grapplersguide 1.0 on the grapplersguide.com homepage instead of just the ad for 2.0.

jasculs, are there any plans to ever take down all of the stuff found at http://grapplersguide.com/forums/ for those that paid for a lifetime membership?

of course people who paid for those old memberships shouldn't necessarily get the new features offered in 2.0 for free, but i think the thrust of the op's complaint is that he mistakenly thinks all of the old stuff is gone simply because you can't get to it from the gg homepage (a perfectly reasonable conclusion)
3/25/12 6:11 PM
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vegard
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the whole point of signing up and paying for a lifetime membership is to support a business as it grows and to help it expand and become successful. If you are then excluded from that success, what is the point of paying for "lifetime?"

Imagine if you paid for a lifetime membership at your gym and then the coach expanded the school and told you not to train at the new school, that your lifetime membership only included gym 1.0, not gym 2.0, and he put in a lot of work learning new techniques that you now gotta pay more for.

I also think jasculs response was not the best tact from a business perspective. New members are the hardest to recruit. He has one here that is still interested in his product and he brushes him off. He goes on to dismiss him for how long ago he signed up and for how little he himself decided to charge him. Seems oddly defensive to me and remind me of the Ryan Hall DVD discount response.
3/25/12 6:33 PM
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ultimatestreetfighter
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bowlsheet is bowlsheet.

lifetime membership shoudl mean lifetime membership.
3/25/12 6:34 PM
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dustyaguas
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Lifetime seems like a lifetime deal to me. I don't quite get that. And it was a little odd that he mentioned you signed up "4 years ago for $87"...It's lifetime, from what I gather at least.

It's also impossible to please everyone.

And a side note, I always avoid any product/service with a Lloyd Irvin style of marketing. Not that the product/service isn't quality, but the marketing is ridiculously annoying and obnoxious.

Having said that, I follow Jason on Twitter & Facebook :-)
3/25/12 8:20 PM
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JRockwell
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Jason just won Grappler's Quest advanced no Gi, btw. WINNING! :) Phone Post
3/25/12 10:27 PM
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dustyaguas
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JRockwell -  Jason just won Grappler's Quest advanced no Gi, btw. WINNING! :) Phone Post

 Mike Tyson was also heavyweight champion of the world. Accomplishments have nothing to do with character.

Not throwing salt on Jason here, I like the guy and love his material. Just saying, don't ignore this guys legit arguement. And as I previously said, it's impossible to please everyone. But just attempting to ignore him or buy him off by offering a refund isn't fair.
3/25/12 10:29 PM
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JRockwell
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dustyaguas -
JRockwell -  Jason just won Grappler's Quest advanced no Gi, btw. WINNING! :) Phone Post

 Mike Tyson was also heavyweight champion of the world. Accomplishments have nothing to do with character.

Not throwing salt on Jason here, I like the guy and love his material. Just saying, don't ignore this guys legit arguement. And as I previously said, it's impossible to please everyone. But just attempting to ignore him or buy him off by offering a refund isn't fair.
When Iron Mike comes out with an instructional site like Jason's, I will sign up. Phone Post
3/25/12 10:32 PM
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dustyaguas
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JRockwell - 
dustyaguas -
JRockwell -  Jason just won Grappler's Quest advanced no Gi, btw. WINNING! :) Phone Post

 Mike Tyson was also heavyweight champion of the world. Accomplishments have nothing to do with character.

Not throwing salt on Jason here, I like the guy and love his material. Just saying, don't ignore this guys legit arguement. And as I previously said, it's impossible to please everyone. But just attempting to ignore him or buy him off by offering a refund isn't fair.
When Iron Mike comes out with an instructional site like Jason's, I will sign up. Phone Post
Me too. I'm kinda just playing devil's advocate.
 
3/25/12 10:51 PM
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demandango
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But don't you still have access to the original site as it was and is? Isn't that what you paid for? Phone Post
3/25/12 11:01 PM
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dustyaguas
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demandango -  But don't you still have access to the original site as it was and is? Isn't that what you paid for? Phone Post

 I'd like to see what was advertised that he paid for. Lifetime memberships make it seem like he will have access to all future content. That's just what I take from it, lifetime seems like a lifetime, ya know, until death.
3/25/12 11:41 PM
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jasculs
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Edited: 03/26/12 12:54 AM
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 Ok...I guess I'll chime in more.  Yes I did offer lifetime memberships in the past.  That means you will be a "member" of the community for life, it does not mean you will get access to ALL brand new "sections" that are added.  A section is brand a new concept or idea added to the grapplers guide.

There is no such thing as a lifetime membership anymore and I 1000% guarantee ever again.  This isn't a marketing thing either.  I will never offer lifetime memberships again and a big reason is because I have taken a much bigger direction with the site then I have ever done before.

Also the site is not an open site and it is never open for good.  Other membership sites stay open forever and let anyone come and go.  The grapplers guide is not like that at all.  You can't join whenever you want and you can't get access to all new sections whenever you want.

It is honesly the most exclusive membership site out and this is what leads to it's very very strong community of very respectful people.

Anyone who is an old lifetime members STILL gets access to (this is what they got and NOTHING was taken away from them):

Gi Video techniques and updates
No-Gi Video techniques and updates
Game plan/flow charts and updates.
Peformance articles and updates
Custom grappling workouts and updates
Exercise database and updates
Partner drllls section and updates
Solo Drills section and ujpdates
Some competition analysis (as long as it does not include technique breakdown of the competition as this is a brand new section/feature) and Updates
Nutrition section and Updates
Strength and Conditioning section and Updates
Grappling Combinations section and Updates
Mental Edge Articles and Updates
Judo Peformance Articles and Updates
Important Positional Tip Articles and Updates
Grappling Analysis Worksheets and Updates
Scenario and Game Plan Resources and Updates
Competition Footage Section and Updates
Grappling Tips Section and Updates
Injury Section
Running a Gym Section and Coaching section

This is everything promised to ALL lifetime members and once again nothing was taken away from them

Now GG 2.0 members get all of the above plus (where YES they WILL need to pay extra a month...in which I offered ALL previous lifetime members 50% off to those who wanted to take advantage of it. BUT the offer was limited because the stuff below requires tons of time and resources and I need to be able to realistically work with everyone)

None of the things below were offered to any lifetime members when they signed up and where not promised to them and I honestly could not provide this if I did not have a fee to reflect all of the work.

- Live webinars (where I schedule a time to talk with the members as a group LIVE on my own time to help them and discuss with them and brainstorm with them)
- Personal e-mail support.  I personally help people with their problems on and off the mat.  It talk to them one on one outside of GG
- One on one Skype and and phone consultation - I help them game plan, talk about problems they are having LIVE as a person to them to help them.
- Competition and training critiques - I spend hours upon hours watching video that people post in the critique section and I break it down for them.  I point out issues.  I give tips. I create videos just for them.
- Assignments - I keep people accountable for their training. I check in with them. I make sure they are improving. I genuinely want to help them.
- Interviews - I will be going out of my way to make appointments with people and other experts to provide training feedback and tips. Meeting them, calling them, setting appointments, chatting with them.
- 50% off of all my products physical (this costs me a lot of money in itself). Discounts on all my DVDs I create, books, etc..
- Group Game Planning - where I work with everyone who participates as a group to clean up their game plan and I provide One on One consultations with them.
- Exclusive Short but Sweet Reference videos that are for GG 2.0 members and no one else.  These take me a lot of planning, time creating, time filming, time editing, etc.. and these where not offered during any lifetime offer.

And that is just some of the extra stuff I do for 2.0 members. There is much more to it and so much more special live one on one things going to be added. 2.0 takes it to the next level.

It's impossible and I mean seriously impossible for me to upgrade everyone who was a lifetime member and who still gets every single thing that was promised to them.  If I did then the Grapplers Guide would shut down in a second.

---------

Also it may not sound good but I don't want everyone to be a member.  I wouldn't be able to handle it.  I don't allow everyone to be a member. I'm actually closing registration tomorrow to the site and will open it maybe once a month or every two/three months when I know there is an opening and that I can handle it.  I want to be able to help everyone individually.

The "lifetime" means they paid a small one time fee for the membership to never expire and still get access to the current features they were offered and they would never lose access to to those features/section and will still get updates to those sections for life.  It did not guarantee them access to additional sections that require additional resources.

Also if someone does not meet a certain criteria they will be removed. The GG does not put up with what a lot of other sites does.  That is why it thrives the way it does, and ever person from white belt to black belt is very respectful

I have people who were lifetime members who post every single day...they have thousands of posts, and I will upgrade them in a heart beat for free because they deserve it.  They helped build GG.

Then I have people who have 30 posts in 4 or 5 years.  They were just lurkers, no participation, no asking questions, no taking advantage of the community to learn.  They can stay lifetime members and still get good updates.  I don't want them to be 2.0 members because I only want people who are going to be productive in their own learning.

I love all of the other membership sites out there but GG is not the same.  It's a serious community and a support system.

----

But one again...in short...lifetime members don't lose anything, they still gain everything that was promised to them.  Just not the additional stuff that takes an extreme amount of invidivual attention.

Thanks for reading,

Jason Scully

P.S. If anyone would like to talk to me and get to know me better, feel free to e-mail me at thegrapplersguide@gmail.com - I will them reply asking for your phone # and we can then talk about whatever you'd like when I call you and you can get to know me better and my character. Be well.    
3/25/12 11:50 PM
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dustyaguas
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 Wuh-heard.
3/26/12 12:24 AM
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TrappeBier
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Lifetime membership to a sight is much different then limited lifetime membership to a sight.
3/26/12 5:25 AM
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blackmonkey
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Glad to see some support on the issue. Jason, you conveniently skirted around one of the main issues I had- the fact that you saw fit to upgrade automatically a number of life time members and turned your back on the others. As a customer, I was under no obligation to contribute anything to your site. Your comment labeling me a lurker and giving that as the reason I wasn't given access to new material, which again INCLUDES technique videos, is like a business discriminating against a customer who is softly spoken. You keep referring to the site as a community, acting like it's some kind of private tracker, but the fact remain it is a business that you make money from and your members are your customers.
When people bought life-time PREMIUM memberships of course they expected the site to evolve AND expected to be included in any upgrades to the site.
The reason I wasn't such a regular visitor is that the site, to be honest, is more than a tad over-rated.
I wish you all the best in your quest to get people paying $30 a month for what you offer--Particularly with MG and Draculino offering their material for the same price--Yeah I know you've got the game-plans we've heard it all before.
For those other members who feel their lifetime PREMIUM memberships were relegated to 2nd tier in Jason's GG2.0
money grab, He made sure to delete my post on the topic on the site, Send him an e-mail, I'm sure he'll have no problem refunding your money too, or he'll send you a brand new gameness..
On second thought take the money -I was waiting 4 years for a t-shirt.
3/26/12 6:44 AM
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jasculs
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Edited: 03/26/12 6:53 AM
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Hello blackmonkey,

It'sl all good man.  As someone mentioned before, I can't make everyone happy and I am fine with that. 

As I mentioned before also, GG is not an open site...it's a private one. I can choose to make the choices that I see fit.  It's also not a tracker as I do not share anyone elses content, only my own personal unique content.

You were not under any obligation to participate, I do not force people to do so and I do not have any problem with it because its your choice. But if someone is not happy because I choose to reward those who DO participate as opposed to not choosing to reward those who don't participate, then I can't help you.  I will ALWAYS reward those who participate on the GG more then any other, because those are the ones who are part of the actual community and are helping it grow. Lurkers and watchers don't help the site grow.  You still got access to all detailed technique videos and updated technique videos you did before so once again I'm not sure what you are talking about. 

If someone is not active right now in the community and becomes active and I see that they are a big benefit to the site and they are LEARNING and helping, there is a good chance I will upgrade them for free too. Just being honest.

If a current 2.0 member is extremely active, helpful, supportive, posts a lot, etc... There is a good chance I will turn them into a free member too.  Those who act and participate get rewarded with extras, those who don't keep what they already have.

Yes I do make some income from GG, I will not deny this and the members are my customers.  And if a customer is not happy that I did not upgrade them for free because they were not an active participant and they don't agree that the additional services that will cost me much more time and money, is worth the additinal investmant in which they choose to NOT EVEN TRY IT OUT and they are not happy that I would not hand over a free upgrade, then just like I did with you, I will refund your money and expire the membership.  OR they can choose to start participating a lot and then I may reward them as a thank you, or they can continue being a 1.0 member, hand out and watch, and still get the updates they always got.

What you deam to be overrated, many deam to be extremly useful.  That is up to the customer.  I have a money back guarantee that I honor and I even gave back 100% of your money after you were able to access the site for 4 years, with the ability to download all content, copy all content, etc (I am not stating this is what you did, but you could have if you wanted to).  Some may call it callous, and once again I can't please everyone.  I am not worried about doing so either.  If you do not use the site the way it is meant to be used, then you will not benefit from it they way you were meant to benefit from it. 

So to anyone who has ANY interest in joining GG (which is closing today anyway because memberships are pretty much full).  IF YOU DO NOT PARTICIPATE, THEN YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET THE FULL BENEFIT OF THE SITE, IT IS NOT JUST A TECHNIQUE SITE LIKE MG AND DRACULINO (WHICH ONCE AGAIN ARE GREAT SITES), IT IS A SUPPORT SITE FOR GRAPPLERS AND COACHES.  If people choose not to participate I will try to help them get motivated to do so, which I have done in the past, and continue to do. It is their choice in the long run though. I should not get penalized for another persons lack of paricipation on the site.

I am NOT interested in lurkers and those who watch other people actually communicate with and be a part of the community, I am intersested in people who want to proactively participate and who really want my help. 

Once again I am sorry that I could not make you happy in the long run blackmonkey, you mentioned you wanted an upgrade instead of the money but I honestly did not want to upgrade you and would have rather of given your money back or a gi that is worth more then what you paid for the membership.  So I chose to not keep you as a member.  As mentoined, people may not "like" me for that, but not everyone will like the choices people make.  I apologize about the t-shirt and that is another reason why I chose to give all of your money back as well. It may not make up for it and I understand but you got ALL of your money back. And if you really really want a free t-shirt, let me know and I'll buy you any t-shirt you want up to a $20 value and have it shipped to you still so you can get a shirt.

I appreciate the conversation on this.  Hopefully this will give people a better insight on the GG, I am doing my best to actually be there for people on a more personal level, then just throwing techniques at people and "watching the money rake in", that is not what it is about for me. I truly want to see people get better more then they may even realize. In the mean time, I will not be replying again as I don't have anything left to say about the topic.

Thank you,
Jason Scully

     

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