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UnderGround Forums >> The Rise & Problems of Zuffa UFC by EatonBeever


3/26/12 10:30 PM
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EatonBeever
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The One & Only Superstar Zuffa UFC created


With the UFC neglecting to promote superstars & their new system of 'credible' fighters instead of superstars - they did create one superstar - Dana White. Dana is the only superstar that UFC promotes. He is on every TUF episode. He is on every countdown giving his useless opinion. He was the commentator at UFC on Fox 1. Zuffa has no problem keeping Dana White at superstar status. His name and opinions mean something in the sport since he can alter the cards or the sport for that matter at his will. His twitter has more followers than most fighters. It seems they like to promote himself as 'the boss' character, similar to a WWE Vince McMahon storyline. With Dana being the President of the UFC, he uses that as a way to put the spotlight on himself. The UFC premiered their first ever official UFC Magazine. And which superstar did they put on the cover of the historical first issue of the UFC magazine ? Their only homegrown superstar - Dana White. A person who has never ever fought in the UFC has graced the cover of the UFC magazine. And the even more sad part is thats not the first time he will appear on the cover. Dana White promotes himself as he seems to enjoy the spotlight and love the attention. It increases his fame with the fans thus giving himself a higher power trip.




Controversy arose when Dana White made some anti-female comments about a female mma reporter who wrote an article Dana White disagreed with. Dana White is a guy that is not afraid to speak his mind nor watch his tone. He cusses often in every sentence, esp when he's fired up about a subject. He also goes off the deep end over issues. This personality displays an immature President as the head figure of the entire sport. Wheather you dislike his personality or like his brassness , he does come across as childish at times. You can't argue that. Dana White had a dispute with former friend Tito Ortiz. Spike TV aired a special of Dana White vs. Tito Ortiz in a boxing match. Ortiz was injured and didn't do it, but they aired the special anyway. It seemed baffling why they would even bothering airing the special that had no significance but to promote Dana White as some guy who won't back down. It was a complete waste of time.

On December 2011, Dana White fired Miguel Torres (a big name fighter) because he tweeted a rape joke. It seemed now that fighters not only had to sign their likeness away to Zuffa, fight for little money due to no competition, and get wins on their record to feed their family - but now have to watch what they say on the internet. It made Dana White look like a dictator of a fighter's life than a President & promoter of a MMA organization. To really make Dana look bad, Rashad Evans & Forrest Griffin had made other offensive jokes, some worse than Torres' comments, but no actions were made against them. After a private discussion with Torres, Dana reversed his decision. A strange story of just how far UFC can go of abuse of power. Dana has also had a history of getting into verbal fueds with fighters and taking action to belittle them in public, erasing them from UFC website, never mentioning them on any broadcast. A trait that hurts the fans that maybe wanted to see fighters like Barnett, Frank Shamrock, in the UFC. His lack of professionalism and his failure to handle talent in the end hurt the fans more than the actual fighter.

Dana White for years bashed Pride's events for displaying freak shows. Dana White then went onto bash Elite XC for Kimbo Slice overhype. But when you put dollar signs in front of Dana White, he seemed to abanded his morals and his previous statements. As the system of 'credible' fighters he designed & only put on fights that 'make sense in Zuffa's eyes' , he ignored his own logic & the system Zuffa created by signing over the hill Boxer James Toney to his first MMA fight on the co-main event on UFC 118 against Randy Couture who had 28 fights at the time. 28 fights against 0 fights. I liked the Toney-Couture match up because it was Anti-Zuffa system of 'credibility' that they promote. Finally it seemed a fight of two superstars that would be an interesting fight. However, it was everything Dana was against. Even though I personally loved the match because it was something different, Dana White looked like a hypocrite signing this fight. And if you think that was bad, once Elite XC was gone, Kimbo Slice was a free agent. And Dana White did not want him to go to other competition. So they made a LARGE deal with Kimbo. But since Dana couldn't put him on the main card because he spent a year complaining Kimbo wasnt a credible fighter, he thought of the perfect thing. Throw Kimbo on the TUF show where you dont have to be credible and those who won gained a level of credibility. It was a perfect match for Dana because it fit his 'zuffa system'. Kimbo was gained special privledges on the show other fighters did not obtain. He got special treatment as well as a huge sum of money. Naturally, he lost his first and only fight on TUF. But Spike TV hype machine (a term we use when Zuffa & Spike overhype a fighter used to promote the PPV) continued to push Kimbo Slice. As much as it sucks, Kimbo Slice is a superstar. His appearance on TUF Season 10 led to the highest ratings TUF has ever seen. A great success for UFC , but made Dana White look like a complete hypocrite. As soon as Kimbo Slice was UFC signed, Dana White promoted him like he was credible, it was almost laughable for the hardcore fan who knew what was what. Kimbo Slice, despite losing the show, still managed to fight on a live TUF 10 finale show in a piss poor performance against Houston Alexander and then one a co-main event of UFC 113 where he lost to Matt Mitrone. Kimbo left the sport altogether to promote Boxing. It seemed obvious Dana White would change his tune when he could make a buck.
3/26/12 10:32 PM
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EatonBeever
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UFC Punishing the Fans with the new Monopolized UFC


The biggest problem with Dana White is that he does not sign the biggest fights unless its in the best interest of the UFC. Dana White has claimed in numerous interviews he makes fights that fans want to see. That is incorrect and the biggest issue with Dana White. Dana White puts on fights that works for them and fits in their 'Zuffa system' of credibile fighters & fighters that they are able to control and cut at will if they want to. The biggest red flag was the signing of the Pride superstars and the lack of mega fights Dana White did not sign when they came in. None can be more obvious that an OBVIOUS dream match right in front of everyone's eyes. In Feb 2007, UFC had Mirko Cro Cop with their organization. He won his debut against a fight that no one wanted to see. Cro Cop was just coming off the biggest accomplishment of his MMA career, the winner of the prestigious Pride OWGP 2006 16-man tournament where he successfully finished Wanderlei Silva (who had never been stopped in Pride) & Josh Barnett who just beat Mintauro Nogueira. Randy Couture had an incredible victory over Tim Syvlia where he came in as a huge underdog and ended up dominating. Couture vs. Cro Cop was the biggest fight the UFC HW division could offer and possibly the biggest fight UFC could ever put on. But since Dana felt Cro Cop had to be 'credible' , he was not signed against Couture. Instead, in UFC's dumbest signings, he faced non-superstar Gonzaga. Obviously, the UFC was trying to set up Cro Cop as credible rather than creating a memorable dream fight that all of the fans wanted to see. But thanks to the Zuffa system, credbility was more important than what the fans wanted to see. So instead, Gonzaga vs. Couture was signed instead. A fight that Couture won and Gonzaga disappeared off of tv after another loss against Werdum later. Gonzaga had gained some superstar status with fighting back to back with Cro Cop & Couture. But in the end, in the long run, no one remembers Gonzaga nor cares about those fights. Gonzaga vs. Cro Cop was only remembered because it fucked up the dream match we wanted - Couture vs. Cro Cop. Normally if that were to happen in Pride, they would still sign the dream match even if the fighter loss. Even early Zuffa UFC would sign that fight. Ken Shamrock was coming off a Don Frye loss in Pride and got an instant title shot against Tito Ortiz. Sadly, this would not be the last time Zuffa would fail to give the fans great memorable fights because of the credibility Zuffa system. Recently 2011 featured Nick Diaz being the second biggest and most exciting name in the WW division. A division that lacked superstars. Diaz had been on a hot streak and signed with UFC. Originally, Diaz vs. GSP was signed, I suppose since Diaz was SF champ that earned his 'credibility' with Zuffa. But Diaz no-showed a press conferance and the fight was cancelled by Dana White for Diaz 'not obeying the rules'. Rather than just giving the guy a fine or something, Dana White punished the fans for Nick Diaz actions. It is clear there are many many many obstacles that fighters have to go through to participate in a dream mega match all fans want to see. GSP was hurt and couldnt compete regardless, but Dana's decision left many a bad taste for the decisions of Zuffa. Diaz instead beat the hell out of BJ Penn in an incredible fight. But GSP was hurt, so UFC had to throw a point fighter in against Diaz to keep him 'credible' for GSP. A very, very awful decision. Carlos Condit wanted to win the interim title (interim is a pathetic excuse for Zuffa to keep credibility in the weight class- the title makes no sense and all the fans know who the real champ is) so at UFC 143, Condit score more points against Diaz and did not engage. It takes two to tango and Diaz couldn't beat his point fighting, but still managed to keep up a close fight in which some believe Diaz beat him. Condit made the fight a boring one while Diaz style naturally keeps it exciting, but Condit won, securing a Condit vs. GSP title fight instead of the dream fight. So the fans have to sit through a 5-round decision in a fight that you have a credible non-superstar against GSP. A fight no one wants. Nick Diaz was disgusted with the decision and claimed to want to retire instead of fight for UFC again. Diaz vs. GSP was another match up that Dana failed to make and continues to fail to make. The fans suffer through the point fighting & the Zuffa credibility system most of the time.
3/26/12 10:33 PM
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EatonBeever
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Edited: 10/03/13 11:01 PM
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Dana Possible Biggest Failure to the Fans - Fedor


But there was absolutely NO bigger fights fans wanted to see when Fedor was a free agent after Pride's folding than Fedor versus UFC's best HWs. In 2008, the fans were begging for a Fedor vs. Couture fight. And after Couture lost to the new comer Brock Lesnar at the end of the year, 2009 brought in thousands of fans across the world begging for Fedor vs. Brock Lesnar. This is the fight the fans wanted to see. But Dana White will not sign a fight that doesn't fit his credibility system or his Zuffa rules. Dana White did not sign Fedor. Fedor's M-1 management team made large requests that Dana White felt the dream fight was not worth the price. Dana claims he offered him more money than anyone and a garenteed title fight main event (which means one fighter doesnt have to go through a credbiility fight to get a title fight). It seemed Fedor broke Dana White's rule, he was trying to call his own shots. UFC doesn't want a superstar bigger than their company that they can't have total control over. Fedor's management felt that Zuffa contracts were over controlling and did not beat other offers. Dana White failed to sign the dream match in 2009 - Brock Lesnar vs. Fedor Emalienenko , a dream match that hasn't been more discussed since Rickson vs. Sakuraba in 2001.

A Look Back at Past Superstar Zuffa UFC Fights that Zuffa Got Right

Although Dana White has failed signing big fights, he had some fights he did get right. Minotauro Nogueira vs. Randy Couture was a dream match since 8 years prior. Though they were coming off of some losses, it was still a fresh and exciting new match up. Since they were coming from losses, Zuffa has no problem signing the fight sadly. Like I mentioned, dream mega fights are most likely going to happen if both fighters are coming from losses as the big mega fights for prime fighters are very rare as it doesn't benefit Zuffa for the price and the fighters dont meet the credibility system. The best match ups that UFC could sign since Pride folded were these:

Anderson vs. Henderson
Anderson vs. Belfort
Anderson vs. Sonnen
Bones vs. Machida
Bones vs. Shogun
Bones vs. Rampage
Henderson vs. Rampage
Minotauro vs. Couture
Henderson vs. Shogun
Brock vs. Mir 2
Brock vs. Alistair
Shogun vs. Machida
GSP vs. BJ Penn 2
Diaz vs. BJ Penn
Rampage vs. Rashad
Rogerio vs. Ortiz
Minotauro vs. Mir 1&2


These are some of the biggest fights off of the top of my head that contained top level superstars of the sport fighting each other. And notice the trend of all of these fights..... MOST of them were very memorable and very exciting. Do I care if the fighter lost to so-and-so ? No. These were dream fights put on over the course of 5 years that came to mind due to their importance and excitement. The idea of this credibility system and not creating superstars creates a dull environment.

3/26/12 10:35 PM
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EatonBeever
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UFC's Boring Production Value


The dullness of the UFC is not just the point fighters playing it safe. Its also the lame recycled production value that has no meaning in the long run. The over saturation of UFC produces more watered down cards that result in a deluted product that is not memorable. The posters are as lame as ever as fan made posters are more memorable and exciting / interesting than the official ones. Every UFC event is the same. Same production, same commentary, same over hype, same 'credbility' fighters, no superstars - no one can tell the events apart. I can name every fight on Pride cards and even the Bushido ones. I can name all the early Zuffa UFC cards. Not anymore. There are so many events with less and less interesting fighters that hold no value or interest in the long run. Designing an organization to only promote the President as a Superstar and not the fighters makes the company look less of a MMA organization and more like a business transaction for my 60 dollars for each PPV. Its gotten stale & old without superstars to keep the attention of the fans.. No one is paying 60 dollars to hear Dana White talk about who he thinks is going to win.

There are many, many factors of why the product is completely forgettable and stale, but bottom line, horrible match making to create gaurenteed decisions, poor judging, horrible immature President, alienating the fans and suing its own fans, blaming fans for poor buyrates, not promoting fighters properly, watered down cards aka oversatuation of the sport, copying boxing sport model to focus more about making money and betting rather than creating a martial arts event which is the roots of MMA..... Before we could name every fight on every UFC , Pride, Rings, WVC, IVC, Meca card...Now, I can't tell you the difference between any UFC card. They all run together and have people that come and go. Before the main events were Ken vs. Ortiz, Liddell vs. Babalu, Hughes vs. Penn - early Zuffa UFCs were great. Now its Chad Mendes (who??) vs. Aldo main event.... Gray Maynard (Zzzzzz) vs. Frankie Edgar (Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz). Ryan Bader had a chance to fight Rampage ? Big mistake. No one cares about these point fighters in the long run.

Sports are popular because either the cities support their teams or if its individual sports have their superstars. UFC created ONE superstar - Dana White. The other superstars were created by youtube (Kimbo) & Vince McMahon (Lesnar) that generated big success for UFC. Dana doesnt like to create superstars because they could leave the company and go to a competitior, so instead they create a boring horrible system of 'credible' fighters and 'credible' champions rather than superstars of the sport that generates great interest and anticipation. They overhype a fighter, and then if he loses, you never hear of him again. (Dan Hardy was legit against GSP??)

You have Alistair Overeem in a title fight, this should be the biggest thing in the world right now, but everyone all around me is talking Peytan Manning to the Broncos and where is Teebow going (Jets?)...And then if the topic is combat sports, they are talking Mayweather vs. Cotto or Pacquaio. No one mentions any names of UFC. A friend of mine said he used to watch UFC and now its a bunch of 'faceless' fighters (we were watching Carlos Condit at the time). Unless you pay attention to every single UFC event, the fighters can never cross to mainstream. A second string quarterback is in the news more than the biggest HW fight the UFC has to offer. I'm not even a huge football fan, but have discussed Teebow more to my co-workers than Alistair vs. Santos!

Early Zuffa captialized on their superstars like Liddell, Couture, Ortiz, Belfort - and they crossed over to mainstream success like Couture in Expendables and Scorpion King. Ortiz is on TMZ sometimes as his superstar name creates interest to the general public. Now, Zuffa ditched that gameplan and concentrates on 'credible' fighters rather than superstars. If a fighter wins, he's "credible" and UFC will keep him under contract. When he losses, UFC dumps him and paints him as irrelevant so when he goes to Japan or Bellator, his value goes down, thus helping UFC. You're as good as your last fight on UFC terms. Thats why fighters play it safe and create a boring fight, stale product. The title is suppose to mean more than the fighter legacy which is complete bull shit. It never used to be like this. You fought for honor and pride and to be the best. If you fought your heart out and were invited back if you had some skill regardless of 'W' or 'L'. Records are simply the most over rated useless thing in an event designed to display your fighting skills.

3/26/12 10:35 PM
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EatonBeever
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Even the Posters are terrible. They are boring, bland, not original. Just two fighters with their hands up or sometimes two fighters facing each other in angry form. The posters do nothing for the audience. They are not exciting nor art. Pride posters are unique to American culture, but in Japan its considered art. Pride 10 poster featured the biggest name Sakuraba being choked by a woman. It was art. In Boxing, Lennox Lewis vs. Michael Grant stand near the twin towers in NY to indicate that they are goliaths and giants of the sport ready to do battle. In the Cotto vs. Pacquaio - Fire & Power poster which presents Cotto's power against Pacquaio's fire which is a term for quick hands.... UFC posters provide nothing intriguing nor give any reason for anyone to care about the product....

Here is the official UFC 113 Poster:


& here is a fan made poster:


Here is the official UFC 141 poster:


And here is a fan made poster:



3/26/12 10:37 PM
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EatonBeever
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Zuffa's Lack of Context


Each memorbale fight is not only remembered for its action, but things that are deeper. The truth is MMA is about the Martial Arts and the mixure of all martial arts in a real fight in a cage or a ring. It isn't just two guys in a cage. People who pay close attention know that there is a deeper meaning to the fights than just two guys swinging away or rolling around. Zuffa UFC gives no memorable fights except a few. And the ones that are memorable was not due to Zuffa. Brock vs. Mir, this was remembered because Brock was known from WWE. Kimbo on TUF. Remembered due to Kimbo star power from YouTube. Minotauro vs. Couture. Remembered due to two superstars battling it one last time, a fight which should have been signed years ago in UFC. But the fights are remembered due to the context of each fight or event. Pride was great about giving the fans context. Why was Fedor vs. Cro Cop so memorable ? The fight went to decision. Both fighters are not in prime anymore. Why is it still talked about ? Because the context surrounding that fight. They were the biggest hW names in Pride that never had their paths cross. Cro Cop just beat Fedor's little brother. There is a real life storyline surrounding that fight. It was iconic. Clash of the Titans at Pride GP 2005 Final Conflict. The fight itself was not as great as Griffin vs. Huerta at UFC TUF 6 Finale - but why is it so rememberd ? Because there is no context of Huerta vs. Guida that could reach that magnitude. Shogun vs. Henderson is a great example. This fight was actually going to be made in Pride. Henderson just beat fellow Chute Boxer Wanderlei for the title in Pride 33. Shogun had won the Pride GP 2005 and was due for a title shot. The fight would have been epic back then. And they fought in 2011, 4 years later after it was signed. Though there was no context behind the fighters. Shogun just coming from a loss to Bones Jones. But the fight was still so epic and the drama unfolded in the ring. Two veterns that were legendary superstar status fighting each other. It was a great fight and memorable for that reason. Zuffa did nothing to add any context to the fight. Zuffa's context as I explained is "Who is credible contender" or "who won't be getting cut". That is horrible boring context for each fight. These fighters have stories. They have charisma. Zuffa lacks to display this to the fans because they don't want to build up a large fan base of a fighter because then they can't cut them and make them irelevant to the competition organization. Its the same context for each fight which creates a dull atmosphere.

There are real life stories these fighters of today have, but the UFC neglects to showcase this. I remember Pat Barry made front page news for being broke and eating crackers and free ketchup packets to survive. I thought to myself, UFC can captialize on a real life story like this. With the big thing today in America being a poor economy and everyone is obsessing over the economy, you could have showed Barry fighting for a paycheck, a real working man - fighting to gain money in this bad economy. That is a story itself. It didn't really matter who he fought next. You could have connect Pat Barry with the 'everyman' and connected with the audience who are all suffering for money these days. But instead, UFC decided to go the same shitty route with Pat Barry saying "I'm going to win and KO him" routine and the other guy saying "Barry is wrong, he can't KO me, I'm BETTER than him. I will win". Wow...Never heard that before, Dana. Barry could have been superstar or at least remembered with the casual fan. So then Barry goes onto actually have one of the best fights against Kongo down the road ironically. If you made that guy a star, that Kongo would fight would have 10000x more of a meaning then just Kongo vs. Barry. There would be a deeper meaning to that fight. A man fighting that people could connect with. This is just one example. I'm sure there are thousands of more and better ones just like it that the UFC will never showcase or provide for the viewer because they have another agenda rather than creating interest in every single one of their fights. You dont have to make up storylines to create substance for a fight. Bad blood is overplayed in today's mma. You dont have to alter and edit TUF series to create fake wwe-like storylines. Each fighter in the organization has his story and things he represents. The UFC fails to convey that to the audience. The are more about try to make the casual fan associate the letters UFC with action packed ppv with this unbelievable insecure obsession with being 'credible' to everyone. While they concentrate so hard to convince everyone they are the best fighting organization and should be mainstream because they are 'credible', fighter's stories go unnoticed and only hardcore fans pays attention to everything rather than turning a casual fan a hardcore fan by creating substance for each fight. With the likes of Nick Diaz, Alistair Overeem, Chael Sonnen - these people have incredible stories and personalities that the UFC could turn 'top ranked fighters' into GODS like Pride FC did. But the sad matter of today is that UFC wants to build 'credible' fighters rather than superstars and household names. Because as you know, Superstars that leave the UFC could help the other organization and UFC doesnt want that. If you just make their fighters 'credible', then if they lose - they lose their credibilitiy , so it wont help the other organization.


3/26/12 10:38 PM
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EatonBeever
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Oversaturation - The Decline of PPV Buyrates for 2011 & 2012


While fans debate if point fighters are to blame, the terrible music, the annoying gladiator intro, it is most likely the decline of the PPV numbers that decreased in 2011 is caused by the oversaturation of the product. With as many events UFC puts on a month, the cards are filled with fighters of no importance to the fans. The UFC will advertise each event as 'acition' and promote its brand name, but with no superstars except for a few who have made a name for themselves (Bones, Anderson, GSP, Mir, etc) - the events became watered down to the fans. With lack of superstars to fill all of the main event slots, a lot of people become not interested.

UFC 1 - 86,000
UFC 2 - 110,000
UFC 3 - 90,000
UFC 4 - 120,000
UFC 5 - 240,000
UFC 6 - 260,000
UFC 7 - 212,000
UU95 - 251,000
UFC 8 - 185,000
UFC 9 - 141,000
UFC 10 - 96,000
UFC 11 - 92,000
UU96 - 120,000
UFC 12 - 122,000
UFC 13-32 - n/a
UFC 33 - 75,000
UFC 34 - 65,000
UFC 35 - 35,000
UFC 36 - 55,000
UFC 37 - 50,000
UFC 38 - 45,000
UFC 39 - 45,000
UFC 40 - 150,000
UFC 41 - 60,000
UFC 42 - 35,000
UFC 43 - 49,000
UFC 44 - 94,000
UFC 45 - 40,000
UFC 46 - 77,000
UFC 47 - 105,000
UFC 48 - 110,000
UFC 49 - 80,000
UFC 50 - 40,000
UFC 51 - 105,000
UFC 52 - 280,000

-2006-
UFC 57 - 400,000
UFC 58 - 290,000
UFC 59 - 425,000
UFC 60 - 620,000
UFC 61 - 775,000
UFC 62 - 500,000
UFC 63 - 400,000
UFC 64 - 300,000
UFC 65 - 500,000
UFC 66 - 1,040,000

-2007-
UFC 67 - 325,000
UFC 68 - 520,000
UFC 69 - 400,000
UFC 70 - SPIKE TV
UFC 71 - 675,000 (Dana had lied & claimed 1 million)
UFC 72 - 200,000 - IRELAND TAPE DELAY
UFC 73 - 425,000
UFC 74 - 485,000
UFC 75 - SPIKE TV
UFC 76 - 475,000
UFC 77 - 325,000
UFC 78 - 400,000
UFC 79 - 650,000

-2008-
UFC 80 - 225,000 - UK TAPE DELAY
UFC 81 - 600,000
UFC 82 - 325,000
UFC 83 - 525,000
UFC 84 - 450,000
UFC 85 - 225,000 - UK TAPE DELAY
UFC 86 - 550,000
UFC 87 - 500,000
UFC 88 - 510,000
UFC 89 - SPIKE TV
UFC 90 - 300,000
UFC 91 - 750,000
UFC 92 - 1,000,000

-2009-
UFC 93 - 350,000 - IRELAND TAPE DELAY
UFC 94 - 800,000
UFC 95 - SPIKE TV
UFC 96 - 375,000
UFC 97 - 650,000
UFC 98 - 635,000
UFC 99 - 360,000
UFC 100 - 1,720,000 (MMA Record)
UFC 101 - 1,050,000
UFC 102 - 535,000
UFC 103 - 400,000
UFC 104 - 475,000
UFC 105 - SPIKE TV
UFC 106 - 375,000
UFC 107 - 620,000

-2010-
UFC 108 - 300,000
UFC 109 - 275,000
UFC 110 - 240,000 - AUSTRALIA - NO TAPE DELAY
UFC 111 - 770,000
UFC 112 - 500,000
UFC 113 - 520,000
UFC 114 - 1,050,000
UFC 115 - 620,000
UFC 116 - 1,200,000
UFC 117 - 600,000
UFC 118 - 570,000
UFC 119 - 295,000
UFC 120 - SPIKE TV
UFC 121 - 1,050,000
UFC 122 - SPIKE TV
UFC 123 - 500,000
UFC 124 - 785,000

-2011-
UFC 125 - 270,000
UFC 126 - 725,000
UFC 127 - 260,000 - AUSTRALIA - NO TAPE DELAY
UFC 128 - 445,000 (Bones vs. Shogun)
UFC 129 - 800,000 (GSP vs. Shields)
UFC 130 - 300,000
UFC 131 - 325,000
UFC 132 - 350,000
UFC 133 - 310,000
UFC 134 - 335,000
UFC 135 - 450,000 (Rampage vs. Bones)
UFC 136 - 250,000
UFC 137 - 280,000
UFC 138 - SPIKE TV
UFC 139 - 290,000
UFC 140 - 485,000 (Bones, Mino, Mir, Ortiz, Rogerio)
UFC 141 - 800,000 (Lesnar)

-2012-
UFC 142 - 235,000
UFC 143 - 400,000 (Nick Diaz)
UFC 144 - 375,000


Now a couple things after viewing those numbers, if the UFC did a good buyrate, I listed the names of those on the card that brought in the numbers. Diaz had the highest PPV, no surprise - he's the last of the UFC superstars that will soon probably be gone.... Bones is another superstar due to his exciting fights, not the promotion of him from UFC...Not one ppv in 2011 reached 1 million. Not even Brock Lesnar could pull in a million, probably lost of interest due to his Cain loss plus it was New Years, so the 'casual buyers' were kinda busy. Last 1 million buyrate was UFC 121 with Brock vs. Cain. The best ppvs of 2011 were GSP (129) and Brock Lesnar (141). Both will not be fighting for 2012. So UFC has to rely on its name brand (lol) to sell their garbage stale product. They do have Bones Jones and he will probably have the best buyrate of the year for 2012 which won't even touch Mayweather / Cotto nor Pacquiao / bradley which both should exceed over a million easy. You sell ppvs with the superstars. UFC has one superstar they've created - Dana White. And no one is throwing down 60 to hear him babble on the ppvs. UFC is full of 'faceless' fighters that no one cares about while the UFC tries to sell them as 'credible'.
3/26/12 10:39 PM
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EatonBeever
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Zuffa points Fingers at the Fans for decline of PPV purchases


Of course, Zuffa and more importantly Dana White do not feel like their product is bad. They and their new fans feel that its flawless. And so when they have recieved the decline in PPV numbers, the first thing they do is point fingers at the fans. Web streaming is something that is for the fans who can't afford the UFC. They download the fights or watch a free live webstream of the event. UFC's big profit relies on PPV purchases. With decrease in sales, Zuffa felt the people watching the web streams were the ones that are responsible for the decline. Zuffa began working with the government on moderating the internet. A controversial subject matter on every forum. A popular web stream website channel surfing was shut down by the government which was the number one site for streaming sporting events. Dana White told the public that people watch webstreams who don't purchase the Zuffa UFC ppvs are 'not true fans'. In a very bold move to alienate alot of the fans, Zuffa ciezed a webstream's registered users for reasons to sue those members of the website that have watched the PPV stream. It seems not only do they not want MMA fans to watch other organizations, but now they don't even want you to view the ppv program unless you pay them for it, regardless of your financial status or money problems. Legally, yes, they have a point. Morally and to punish a bunch of poor people for trying to view their product ? Thats debatable. Naturally, I agree with Vince McMahon who's philosophy is to put on a show for the fans and only be about the fans. Vince has even hired back Warrior who was difficult to deal with and even Rena Mero (Brock Lesnar's wife) who sued Vince McMahon for harassment & unsafe work environment. Vince set aside his personal beliefs for his fans who still wanted to see Warrior in 1992 or Sable in 2004. Dana White feels the need to attack his own fans if he thinks he is losing money because of webstreams. Dana White, who once seemed to be a man of the mma fans, has no solifitied himself as an over greedy business captialist that will stop at nothing to gain profit even if it means attacking his own fans. Legally, he is right. But our sport is based on honor, respect, tradition and Dana's practices, although legally correct, has nothing to do with honor.
3/26/12 10:40 PM
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EatonBeever
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UFC vs. Boxing Debate in Media- Propaganda from the newer UFC Fans & Joe Rogan


Now since Zuffa has convinced everyone that UFC namebrand is not an organization, but an entire sport, it seems the UFC now verbally assaulting the entire sport of Boxing. I believe Dana accomplished the goal of getting all the MMA fans to his program, but now wants all combat sport fans (kickboxing, boxing, etc) and even wants to beat NFL in the future. In 2007, a lot of programs were discussing which sport is better (sport as in UFC since the media bought that UFC is a sport and not just a company). Joe Rogan went on ESPN and claimed "MMA is swallowing Boxing". That couldn't be further from the truth. Apples & oranges. Both delicious fruit. But Boxing is its own thing. MMA is its own thing. Boxing has a system (which Zuffa copied) which set up contenders, champions, records - all that matters in Boxing. It doesnt matter in MMA though, which is what people don't understand. Boxing is meant to be a Sweet Science while MMA is meant to be a Marital Arts Event. Boxing is meant to have one main event fights. Its 12 rounds. It might go distance. Or a cool knock out. Either way you get your money's worth. In MMA, there are so many ways to finish fights, I'm surprised point fighters don't catch their opponent from time to time. The biggest HW fights of 2011 were Cain vs. Santos in MMA and Klitschko vs. Haye in Boxing. Wlad / Haye went 12 rounds, fans got 12 rounds of the two biggest names in the sport (even if u think it was boring, the fight still took place and made history). While Santos vs. Cain went 64 seconds. The same amount of build up and historical value for both fights, but its to explain the difference. There are too many ways to lose a fight therefore quicker fights in MMA - hence why its important to stack the card. UFC ppvs copying Boxing with only one mega main event is just going to hurt them in the long run. Titles & records are absolutely worthless in MMA. In MMA, styles make the fights. A guy who loses to Bones but not to Machida doesn't mean shit. It means his style beat Machida but can't beat Bones. We watch MMA to see the fighters display their style of fighting, their martial arts. In Boxing, we are in it for the Sweet Science. Its a game of chess. Very complex with using head movement, arms, defense, footwork, etc. The skill set between the fighters is always going to be noticable in each fight. They are both combat sports, but different. I am one who feels they compliment one another. I feel that MMA's prime golden years will be superior to Boxing's prime golden years, but a great boxing fight will always be better than a great MMA fight. People feel that they will see the uprise of UFC in America and claim its going to kill Boxing, but that can't be further from the truth. Boxing won't be dead. They said that after Ali. Then Sugar Ray Leonard came along. Then they said that after Leonard. Then Tyson came along. Then they said that after Tyson & RJJ / DLH came along. Then people claiming Boxing dead, then Pacquaio & Mayweather. Now the same stupid shit is being brought up by noobs - "After Mayweather and Pacquiao - Boxing will be Dead, whos going to carry the torch". Do I have a crystal ball ?? I have no idea, but history DOES repeat itself in the case of Boxing and there will always be someone else to carry the PPV torch. Haye vs. Wladimir was the most watched fight in Europe ever. Overseas, Boxing is the number one combat sport. Is boxing dead ?? Well, I have the numbers.

These are the biggest PPVs of the year....

2006:
Boxing - DLH vs. Mayorga - 920K
UFC - UFC 66 - 1.05 million

2007:
Boxing - DLH vs. Mayweather - 2.4 million
UFC - UFC 79 - 700k

2008:
Boxing - Pacquaio vs. DLH - 1.2 million
UFC - UFC 91 "Lesnar vs. Couture" - 1 million

2009:
Boxing - Mayweather vs. Marquez - 1.05 million
UFC - UFC 100 - 1.6 million

2010:
Boxing - Maywaether vs. Mosley - 1.40 Million
UFC - UFC 116 "Lesnar vs. Carwin" - 1.16 million

2011:
Boxing: Pac vs. Marquez IV - 1.45 million
UFC: UFC 129 "GSP vs. Shields" - 800k

Boxing = 4 of the biggest PPVs of the year
UFC = 2 of the biggest PPV of the year


Although more UFC ppvs make the top ten than Boxing, but the fact that 4 out of 6 years , a Boxing PPV ruled number one of the year shows that there is a GREAT interest in Boxing and is making money. And if its making money, it won't die. And this is American numbers. I think even the biggest UFC fanboy will agree Boxing is supreme overseas. Germany, UK, Ukraine - all tune in for Khan, Haye, Klitschko Brothers. Although those names are not mainstream here, it doesn't mean they aren't mainstream overseas. Brazil carries big UFC numbers, but UFC does not touch Boxing in terms of numbers in Europe. Bottom line, Boxing carries the two biggest superstar names in combat sports. Mayweather & Pacquaio. Two superstars promoted correctly by HBO to increase the interest in their fights. UFC had GSP & Brock as their biggest superstars, but Brock retired and GSP is hurt. If anything, it seems as if Boxing is on the uprise while UFC is on the decline. But the future can not be forseen , but you can probably count on Mayweather vs. Cotto the number one PPV of 2012. UFC failed at creating superstars out of its champions and contenders, so no casual fan knows Alistair or even Santos that matter (still new to the casual fan). That should have be the biggest fight since Brock vs. Mir 2 at UFC 100, but as exciting as it is for us (the hardcore fans), no one really knows about the significance of the fight that could be epic for fans. UFC has the talent to make fights as big as Mayweather / Cotto or Wlad / Haye , but due to the lack of superstars they refuse to make, it won't happen anytime soon.

3/26/12 10:40 PM
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EatonBeever
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Bye bye Spike TV, Hello FOX


Dana White was comparing UFC to MLB, NFL, NHL & NBA. He positioned himself to dominate the sport completely. He just needed to gain that one last goal of Primetime Television & thats what he did. On August 18th, 2011 - UFC & Fox announced a seven year broadcast deal. It would end the UFC relationship with Spike TV & Versus Channel. Versus Channel held its Zuffa WEC and then UFC on Versus events that lasted only 6 shows. Fox was bigger because of Fox channels were network Fox, FX, & Fuel. So three channels UFC could use to put their events on the air. On November 12th, UFC finally made its way to primetime television. It featured #1 Cain Velasquez vs. #2 Junior dos Santos, a HW fighter as I mentioned earlier that hasn't happened in Zuffa UFC history! The fight was very anticipated as both were undefeated in the UFC (cain was undefeated in all organizations). Fox aired a UFC Primetime show, which is a HBO Boxing 24-7 rip off featuring Cain & Santos. The primetime show hyped the fight. On November 12th, 2011 - Santos KO'ed Cain in just 64 seconds. The show was a lot of talk and build up for one quick fight. It drew 5.7 million views, making it the highest watched combat sports event since Lennox Lewis vs. Vitali Klitschko on HBO in 2003. Critically however, fans did not like what they saw. For the hardcore fan who's used to an event with multiple fights, it seemed that Dana White was copying Boxing format with the one fight and it didn't pay off. For the casual fan, it felt like a lot of hype and talk all for 64 seconds. Both sides agreeing that the show was just not good. They used Fox to advertise their next PPV, 139 featuring Shogun vs. Henderson. However, the advertisement seemed to not work. UFC 139 did a smaller buyrate than the UFC PPV right before UFC on Fox showing that no one was buying the product despite all the exposure on free primetime tv on a Saturday Night. That wasn't a good sign for Zuffa UFC.

January 28th, 2012 featured UFC on Fox 2 which this time featured three fights. The show was another diaster, some would argue worse than the last one. All three fights went to decision as it seemed the fights were just wrestle-fests. Putting alot of wrestlers on the card proved to be boring. The ratings went down a million viewers from the last one (4.7 million viewers). The Ultimate Fighter now switched from Spike TV to FX on Friday Nights. A bad decision since most of the UFC audience is out and about on Friday nights.
3/26/12 10:40 PM
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UGCTT_SidRival
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Fooooor later. Phone Post
3/26/12 10:43 PM
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Vasechkin
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I like EatonBeever articles, but this one is very, very biased against Zuffa.

Dana White is MMA Savior, and without him, we should still think that pride fighters are the best.
3/26/12 10:44 PM
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EatonBeever
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The Bandwagon of the New UFC Fans Effect


As more and more people sign up for mixedmartialarts.com UG forum, more old school fans are exiting. A new generation of fans that jump from bandwagon to bandwagon. We've seen people bash Alistair relentlessly for being overrated as he won the K-1 WGP & defend his Strikeforce HW championship in the same year, but as he enters Zuffa UFC and wins his first match, the UG flooded with Alistair support that came from nowhere. And with this pattern of bandwagoners , you must feel that if they bandwagon with whoever is "in", then they are perfectly capable of leaving the sport altogether as soon as something else appeals to their interest that is appealing to everyone around them. The true hardcore fans never tune into a UFC because its a UFC. They tune in because of the fighters. They don't jump on bandwagons. They follow the careers of certain fighters and become a fan of them. A true fan sticks by them win or loss. The common trend on the UG of "____ needs to retire" after one loss or "_____ has always sucked" just redefines this generation of new fans as not true fans, but those who pose as true fans because they purchase PPVs, increase UFC business, watch every event , but only to witness action, not finding a deeper meaning in the sport. The deeper meaning is a sport of honor, tradition, skills, and martial arts. Today's UFC tends to only honor action & winners in a business deal to extend their contracts. It's become a business. It used to be an event or a celebration of the martial arts, imo. Pride executed a perfect system of a goal to find the best fighter on the planet. It created events that were memorable from top to bottom. I don't know what the fighters records were, nor did I care. I don't remember any talk of a fighter being cut. I don't believe I even knew the President or Promoter's name off of the top of my head, nor did I care. But the thing I did care about were the superstars on each card and their performance. I wasn't worried about a loss, because if they fought their heart out, they would be brought back if their skills did not decline. The system of Zuffa UFC is boring. Some new fans are attracted to the action of the events & the actual skill of certain talent. We are in a new era. Now people will use the internet as a means of 'catching up' with MMA history by viewing youtube highlights of fighters or viewing someones record on wikipedia. Then they will claim they know what they're talking about. But the truth is reading a novel is a bigger and better adventure than just reading the summary on the back of the novel & what the critics say about the novel.Take a look at my favorite example, fellow UG popular member DamnSevern. This guy got into the sport around 2008-2009, thats when he found UG. He began running his mouth and disrespecting legends such as Royce Gracie who weren't signed with Zuffa. You could tell from his opinions, everything was Pro-Zuffa and nothing was subjective thinking. So then of course Alistair was the big thing in 2010 when he was with Strikeforce & K-1 WGP Champ. The hardcore fans knew we were watching a NEW Alistair that we put way up there in the ranks and predicted he could beat a lot of the top talent, despite him being in a different organization. He had the experience, the training, and now the size to put him at the top. Its not easy to be a triple crown winner, ADCC Europe champ in grappling, K-1 WGP 2010 winner (only been 7 others in 17 years), and Strikeforce HW champion (Defending against Brett Rogers throwing the large man like a rag doll). It was obvious Alistair would be the next big thing. But the noobs feel because he's not signed with UFC, he must obviously be 'overrated' or 'not as good as UFC fighters'. Its a manipulation that the Spike TV hype machine created that only the best fight in UFC and everyone else sucks...until they sign with UFC (lol...i know , i know...it doesnt make sense...people cant do their homework & read between the lines). So here is a nice little screen shot from just a year ago after Alistair won the K-1 WGP 2010 where DamnSevern put out there that Alistair was overrated:

-----------------------


----------------------------------------------



And here is his response when called out for being completely wrong about Overeem right after he TKO'ed Brock Lesnar.

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h326/EatonBeever/DamnSevern2.jpg


DamnSevern claims Alistair only won that Brock fight because he just started working on wrestling takedown defense even though the fight ended when Alistair finished Brock with strikes & Alistair has fought many wrestlers before....But in typical new-fan fashion, now that Alistair entered UFC & won, you can't stop DamnSevern from making Alistair Overeem. Here is a screen shot of his recent Alistair threads. It seems odd that someone would bash a fighter who isn't with Zuffa UFC, but then praise him as soon as he signs. This is a typical (and bad) trend of the new fans and the system that Dana White & Zuffa has created to the fans, that they buy without question. The idea of "only the best fight in UFC" that Dana spewed for years finally manipulated the fans to follow his words relgiously to the point where the fans have no ground they stand, only follow 'patterns'. The pattern that if you win, you're credible. If you lose, then you might be fired. And of course the big one, if you're not in the UFC, then you are not relevant to anything in MMA....


3/26/12 10:44 PM
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D241
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Eaton Beever-
Promoting Action over Fighters


UFC prided themselves on creating 'action'. Dana White always said "you need to witness the event live because there is nothing like it". It was obvious Dana's turn from promoting big superstars like Ortiz vs. Liddell at UFC 47 was now interested in promoting the action instead of the fighters. Zuffa countdowns & 24-7 rip off were now geared to tell the audience "Watch this guy because he is exciting" rather than adding context or a historical value to the individual fight. I believe the source of this belief by Zuffa was Forrest Griffin vs. Stephan Bonnar. Here are two names built by a reality tv show which they didnt hold any top ten ranking, but still had a wild exciting fight that gave UFC success. If you look at the numbers, Griffin / Bonnar fought for peanuts to get the contract and it generated huge numbers. It was obvious that the UFC could display and promote action over their superstars to promote its brand name as well as to save a buck from signing huge big names from other organizations. If the Zuffa company could persuade the media outlets & its fans to associate the UFC name brand with big action, then they don't need big names to spend money on. Because regardless, they'll get the same buy rates. It's about the money in the end.


 Anyone who became a fan after 2006 needs to read this paragraph. EB hit it right on the head and fans can make a difference as to seeing fighters we like watching again and again over new comer matches that appear to be an equal exciting match up.
3/26/12 10:46 PM
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EatonBeever
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MAIL: VHS Events & FCFighter Newsletter versus INTERNET: Youtube & Wikipedia


Before, we used the internet as a way to find upcoming MMa events, discuss MMA with fellow fans, keep the sport alive. The big quote back then was "support the sport", which meant give the money to UFC or other American organizations so it wouldn't die off. Now the new fans use the internet as the means to give themself cliff notes of MMA history. Back in the day, fans collected VHS tapes to view all the events we could get our hands onto. The other big thing was to subscribe to FCFighter - a MMA newspaper sent to our houses to keep up on events & news plus interviews. Everything was done by mail. Downloading fights wasn't possible. So we collected as much as we could through the mail. With the vhs events, there was no skipping around (it took too long). Everything was seen from start to finish. There weren't that many events back then, so it wasn't hard to keep up with the sport. A lot of the hardcore fans, including myself, could name every single fight from the Pride, UFC, IVC, WVC, Rings, KOTC, Superbrawl, Pancrase organizations, from top to bottom. We remembered each fight from the card because we viewed them all in their entirety. These days, the fans have declined in knowledge due to the birth of the internet. Now, fans will neglect to go back & view all the events, connecting the dots to each organization to identify who the best was at that certain era. Instead, they view single fights on youtube, fighter highlights on youtube, and view wikipedia fight stats just to see who won & how. I can't stress enough how damaging this is to the fan base. They might be able to name the fighters record and who they fought, but neglect to view the context of each fight. MMA is still new and the rules changed, different context per fight that might alter a fan's perspective of a fighter. You look at Belfort and see a win over Joe Charles. They fail to see the deeper context of that particular fight. Joe Charles & Belfort agreed not to throw strikes because they've trained together. Or Fedor's loss over TK. TK won by an illegal elbow that should the officials made a wrong call, but since they didn't do anything, it was ruled a win for TK. Or take the Couture vs. Mikhail Illhoukine fight. Says Mikhail won by armlock. It was in a lower level Rings show that most people have not seen. The fight was complete BS, but the end result was never changed thus keeping it a loss for Randy on sherdog, wikipedia, etc. These are just small examples of context. But there is something even bigger than just a few messed up results. People just think Fedor was always has been at the top, but no one even realizes at Pride 25, Fedor came in as an underdog against Minotauro Nogueira was expected to lose like the other Russian Rings vets who were crossing over at that time (Avetjev, Kopylov, etc). Beating Minotauro was such a huge accomplishment, newer fans completely are unaware of that history. Instead, they just knew he was number one and now he lost three in a row , so they rush to judgment. But if they look back , it only says Fedor won on his stats, so they feel there is nothing more to research, but sadly they are mistaken and its causing a divide in the fans - old school vs. newer fans that cause a lot of verbal conflicts on this forum.... You'll see myself debate with noobs such as Chris27, Slammin, WatchinMMA, Suess, DRevan, MMALOGIC, DOCTORMMA, unfilter, McBottery, GriffinQ, caposa who are brand new to the sport (but of course will lie and say they've been here since the beginning but continue to have the same opinions as all the other noobs) and they will carry on like they have some knowledge and meaningful opinions, but they don't.

3/26/12 10:47 PM
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EatonBeever
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Fedor vs. Anderson - p4p GOAT Argument


The 'typical' trend is newer fans will say Anderson Silva is the greatest fighter who has ever lived, while more old school fans will argue its Fedor. When you don't experience both eras, its hard to compare. I know its just fights, but its all about the context of each fight. If you dont have the context of each Fedor fight, who he fought and who that guy fought and who that guy fought - its hard to collect a context for each "win" or "loss" on his record. Skipping an era and not watching all the events around that time is very time consuming for the casual fan, so they lack the education and proper knowledge of the history of the sport. Those who've been around since the beginning are lucky enough to witness everything and can compare and give great opinions of today's fighters or today's MMA news. It really sucks because Dana White couldn't sign Fedor as I mentioned earlier, so the whole Anderson vs. Fedor debate was started by Dana White himself as he overhyped Anderson superior to Fedor which of course caused fans to debate it endlessly.

Because the new fans lack the context of Fedor's fights & era, they are missing some vital mma history & information to conclude their opinion. Here's the thing about the "Greatest" thing. In order for a fighter to be "GREAT", he must not just have great skills, but something FARRRR more important, Great Challenges. If you look at the history of Boxing, even if you're not a fan of Boxing, Muhammad Ali is and probably will always be known as the Greatest. Just watch the Michael Mann 2001 film and see why he is the greatest. He took on the GREAT challenges of his era and won them. If there was no Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier, or George Foreman - Ali would NOT be known as the Greatest. Tyson KO'ed many bums way quicker and more impressive than Ali did in his day - but what was Tyson's Challenges ? Lennox Lewis & Holyfield were his great challenges and he lost to them... He wasn't able to make that leap and become the greatest without beating the big names. If Tyson beat Lennox, Holyfield & Riddick Bowe - then Tyson would probably be tied with Ali as the greatest of all time. But since that didn't happen, Tyson will always fall below Ali no matter what. That brings me to the point of Fedor & Anderson, the controversal topic on the UG for the past year or so. Fedor had the GREAT challenges. Minotauro Nogueira was unbeatable at the time, Minotauro even rematched the only guy that beat him on points and avenged that loss by submission. It seemed he was unstoppable. Fedor beat the odds... Fedor took on Fujita, not a GREAT, but Fedor was staggered in the fight and nearly beaten, but somehow managed to back an impressive comeback and win right after that happened. A great challenge is to overcome adversity. Then Fedor took entered a 16-Man HW tournament in 2004 featuring the bigger stronger & former UFC HW champions Mark Coleman & Kevin Randleman. Those were GREATS, legendary fighters and Fedor beat them even having been slammed on his head by the stronger Randleman, but managed to fight through adversity and win directly after the slam that would KO a normal human being. And even clearing the air by a rematch against Nogueira which he won to secure two victories over Big Nog & winning the GP in 2004. Fedor then took on Mirko Cro Cop, the best HW in the world in 2005 and a long anticipated match that was the MMA version of "Ali vs. Frazier" and like the greatest of all time, Fedor succeeded securing his position as the best ever. Then to really put icing on the cake, Fedor left Pride when it folded and dismantled two more former Zuffa UFC champions, Sylvia (who Dana said would beat Fedor) and Arlovski who was ranked number two at the time. He won by sub and KO over both in the first round. Anderson Silva has an impressive win streak in the UFC. What was the GREAT challenges ? I've said this many times, Belfort & Henderson were Anderson's biggest and best victories. Those were great fighters. But not to take anything away from Henderson nor Belfort, but the truth is they were not equal to Minotauro or Cro Cop. They were a step below. Henderson fought Anderson after a loss to Rampage. Belfort has fought for a long , long time and has collected a large share of losses and has a reputation of being inconsistant. Belfort & Henderson are my favorite, but I have to face the facts that they were not as "GREAT" as Nogueira or Cro Cop was in their prime. Belfort just entered MW and had only two big wins before losing to Anderson, Lindland & Franklin - both fighters that were past prime. MW division is weak. Anderson is a very VERY large fish in a very small pond. Chris Leben, a TUF 1 vetern who turned into a decent fighter but not great. Marquardt was good, but not on the same level as Randleman or Coleman in terms of legendary status. Same goes with Griffin, Franklin, Sonnen with 8 or so losses, Lutter & Cote were complete jokes to even be in the same ring as Anderson - but yet Fedor gets crap for his Zulu victory. Lietes or Maia who were a flash in the pan, better at BJJ than MMA. Anderson has not had that ULTIMATE TEST to solitify himself as the greatest of all time. I'm not biased, but I did live & witness both eras and I was shocked to learn that it was even a discussion. The sad fact is Anderson Silva MIGHT contain more skills than Fedor , but that is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. You have to test yourself against the greatest , but the Anderson Silva MW division did not contain the greatest fighters the way Fedor's HW era had. Fedor was able to be in the same ring as legends in their primes such as Nogueira, Cro Cop, Coleman, Randleman, Fujita, Schilt, Arona, Babalu, Lindland, Arlovski & Sylvia. Anderson does the best he can to take on the best, but the division is weak and there is no "Ali vs. Frazier" type of fight in the MW. Anderson , of course, could fill the Ali slot. But who in the MW could fill the Frazier slot ? Sonnen is a lot of talk, might have the tools to beat Anderson MAYBE - but he is no Frazier. He hasn't done enough to get that comparison. Anderson can for ALI comparison - but there is no Frazier at this time.... If the new fans want to argue that Anderson has better skills, the truth is we'll never know. But if the fans want to argue who the greatest of all time in MMA was - the answer is Fedor.
3/26/12 10:47 PM
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JoeTheWildRover
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 hahaha was this entire frat to rip on damnsevern? if so that's hilarious
3/26/12 10:47 PM
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EatonBeever
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The Future of Zuffa UFC


With PPV ratings still on the decline, its hard to forsee the future. The superstars that gain the most attention and most ppy buyrate (GSP & Lesnar) will not be fighting in 2012, which means less ppv buyrates. Lesnar retired and won't fight again while GSP is injured for 2012. Bones Jones is the next guy that brings in decent buyrates (although much less than Lesnar or GSP). I don't think MMA is 'dying' as the product might be boring people. While this could lead to the UFC 'dying', its too early to tell. MMA will never die, in my opinion. If you look at K-1, it was the meca of Kickboxing. The only organization that dominated all the others. The biggest names fight in K-1. But the company failed in 2011 and is gone. But now kickboxing is at It's Showtime, a Netherlands kickboxing organization. They still managed to get all the K-1's biggest names including Badr Hari & Ghokan Saki. If UFC does fail and closes shop, MMA will just go somewhere else. Right now, there is a small MMA organization, Bellator that seems to put on solid cards & shows with the budget they have. They maintained a Spike TV deal to fill the empty UFC spot that went to Fox. It could just end up Bellator or maybe even back to Japan with the former Dream, Pride or K-1 promoters. Its too early to tell, but UFC has made enough profit to keep going for a long time even with a decline in interest for 2012. Its possible they might focus on their problem, which is their oversaturation of cards, lack of promoting superstars, rules & judging changes. But if you've been in the beginning watching this sport from Day 1, it's a different time. Our times of enjoying our passion seem to dwindle as more and more UFC cards are being thrown out there. The days of "mixed" martial arts are long gone as nothing is 'mixed' anymore, just all one of the same. Guy A versus Guy B, most likely a decision for Guy A. Guy B might get another fight and if he loses, Guy B gets cut. Guy A versus Guy C, Guy A suffering the same fate as Guy B, whom he just defeated. Eventually, these are just names on paper and the numbers beside his name mean nothing. The context of great epic fights seem to be gone as only one superstar rules them all, Dana White - The President or The Boss. With only one superstar that no one is willing to pay 60 dollars to watch, it makes things difficult to forsee a great future for the sport. In the end, the UFC / MMA might just be a flash in the pan. We've all saw it in the late 90's as Pro wrestling bloomed and felt like nothing could top it, but in the end of the day, the casual fan went somewhere else. The wrestling companies had no competition and it became boring. I don't know if the UFC will suffer the same fate as 90's Pro Wrestling, but it seems to be on the exact same track as it. Lack of superstars, no competition, monopoly of the sport (or in that case sports-entertainment). As I labelled myself as a hardcore fan since I got into MMA in the 1990's, I find myself losing interest of the sport & just tuning in to follow my favorite fighters (win or lose). I now tend to consider myself more of a Mixed Martial Arts Historian rather than a 'fan' or even a 'trained martial artist' for that matter. Of all the years of spending time watching MMA, training in MMA & dedicating myself to the sport, I feel that the golden days (2000-2005) are gone. Yes, even Zuffa at early stages was part of the glory years that made it better. People will feel I hate the UFC, but if you read up until this point , you will know that I have praised Dana White & Zuffa UFC in the past and acknowledge their great decisions in the past, but that does not mean I will look the other way when they make poor decisions. I do wish the death of Zuffa UFC and hope they fold due to their trading the heart & soul of MMA for profit these days. The overall product offers nothing to the old school fan and no future for the new fan. Just a cycle of point fighting that has grown tiresome. I tend to tune into Boxing for my combat fix as Boxing has a system of superstars that I find interesting. Both sports offer high level of skilled combatants, but Boxing seems to offer bigger superstars that peak everyone's attention. Kimbo & Lesnar were MMA's biggest names in mainstream America that both turned out to be duds in the end, no significant legendary skills to cement themselves along with Fedor, Nogueira, Royce, Shamrock, Sakuraba - while Boxing offers Mayweather & Pacquiao that will end up in the pages next to Ali, Tyson, Lewis, Leonard, Klitschkos, Holyfield, etc. Boxing seems to hype and promote the CORRECT fighters thanks to the brilliance of HBO production (24-7). While prime vs. prime, its almost impossible to choose, apples vs. oranges, with the entire majority of the sport in the hands of a company, companies are known to go bankrupt and the sport will migrate into another organization. Its a matter of 'if' or 'when' - but it won't be tomorrow. The sport will never die, but companies fold all the time & if the UFC continues its system & pattern of boring production value and failing to promote its stars - we could be looking at the sport heading somewhere else. As a hardcore fan, I can only dream the sport heads back to Japan to bring back the honor & tradition the sport's roots came from. I've discussed in great detail about UFC displays 'credible fighters', but I want something more - I want INCREDIBLE FIGHTERS like the good ole days !!!!!
3/26/12 10:49 PM
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BaraoKix
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You forgot to write about:




"the Obsession"
3/26/12 10:49 PM
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EatonBeever
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Edited: 03/27/12 1:56 AM
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The Solution of the Problems


A lot of fans will counter the Zuffa UFC problem of being boring by claiming "everyone is complaining, but offer no solutions". That is not true. If you've read this thread from start to bottom, the changes of UFC to become a better product is completely obvious, at least in my eyes. Less cards, higher production value, stop cutting fighters who are known, higher pay for fighters, & most importantly - concentrate on building new superstars and have those superstars fight other superstars at the top spot. Alistiar vs. Santos is the biggest fight UFC has to offer, partly because K-1, Pride & strikeforce built Alistair as a superstar & rightfully so. But because of the system, the fight is not known to anyone outside those who follow UFC product. Instead of building 'credible' fighters, build INCREDIBLE fighters. Pro Wrestling in Japan built superstars. Pride used those superstars for their show even if they were overhyped (like Kimbo). But Pride didn't just build their fighters as superstars, in Pride they labelled them as GODS. This resulted in memorable and amazing shows that will live in the history of MMA forever. If I were Dana, I would keep the sport a mixed martial art event.

What does everyone get excited for ? Anderson Silva moving up to LHW ? GSP moving up to MW to face Anderson ? 1-0 Giant Monster Brock Lesnar entering UFC for the first time against a UFC vet in the co-main event ? Mixing things up and keeping it a martial art event makes the sport entertaining, fun, great to watch just like the example I posted. Fuck belts, titles, contenderships that go nowhere, Ultimate Takedown Championship, fighting not to lose, etc.. I want to see the best vs. the best and don't give a fuck who the 'champion' is bc all that garbage is worthless in the long run. Steve Jennum was a UFC champion. Dave Menne was MW champion. Frankie Edgar is our current LW champion. It's not like we idolize who have held a UFC title. Who cares about that nonsense. Our sport is not Boxing. Boxing , a sport I love, is a seperate thing and has its own set of tradition and rules. Those traditions and rules do not translate well into MMA, IMO...We could have had all kinds of dream matches in the past, but thanks to Dana's boring ass Boxing blueprint, we got Cro Cop vs. Eddie Sanchez instead of Cro Cop off of a Pride OWGP win against HW Champion Randy Couture. God forbid, the fans have to educate themselves and learn who will be fighting the current UFC's best.

Remember when Pride brought Rulon Gardner in ? Threw him against Pride popular fighter right away. Gilbert Yvel debut I believe was one of the main events against World known Vitor Belfort. No one knew who Yvel was in Japan, but they wanted to put the best matches possible (although who knew Belfort would transform into Mark Kerr in that fight). Remember when they brought in Ken ? Superfight right away. Did they have to fight no-namers to educate the fans who they are ? Did Liddell have to face Eddie Sanchez in his Pride debut ? Hell no... They mixed shit up. They made it entertaining as well as satisfied the combat sport aspect of the it as well.

What were the most memorable UFC fights ?

BJ Penn @ WW against GSP II
Minotauro vs. Couture , a non-title fight; both coming off of losses, biggest / best fight of the year
Brock Lesnar 3-1 against Frank Mir @ UFC 100.
Anderson Silva tooling former LHW champ, Forrest Griffin @ UFC 101 (HUGE UFC PPV BUYRATE TOO)
Brock Lesnar 2-1 against Randy Couture @ UFC 91 , biggest fight


The HW tourney with Mir / Mino vs. Couture / Brock with the winner being unified HW champion. Closest thing UFC gave us to a legit tournament.... That was awesome. There was CONTEXT behind those fights. Mixing shit up is what our sport is about without making absolute freakshows or mismatches. You dont need Giant SIlva or Akebono to create interest / memorable fight. Japan took their concept about mixing things up a little too far and it hurt its credibility as an organization in the long run. Fighters using their martial arts in a fight, trying to staying the best in the sport. Best vs. the Best to see who is the best fighter in the world. When Fedor was p4p King / God, the UG was in peace, debating about Judo vs. BJJ , which is better for the street. The boxing blueprint for the UFC will hurt the UFC in the long run. Sure, lets get the Spike TV deal, Fox deal and enjoy the nice cash coming in, because people are going to get bored of Point Fighting and tune into something else. Ignoring production value, rewriting the own company's history as soon as Dana is fueding with a fighter, cutting fighters that have a loss even though you spent time building that fighter - It will be looked back upon as a Boxing Wannabe. Mix things up! Let's see a tournament again like in 2009 with Brock,Couture, Mir, Mino. That was fun. Anderson vs. GSP. Anderson vs. Bones. Its should be a Martial Arts Event! Who cares about records or titles. I want memorable fights with INCREDIBLE fighters!

I am sorry if I come across as anti-UFC, but I am not anti-UFC as I am pro-MMA. Just because one does not agree with the business practices of UFC, does NOT and I repeat NOT mean they are anti-UFC. They are a bigger fan because they care so much, imo. I am not complaining, but merely offering an idea to what is going on in the sport today. An education for the new fans. I'll always watch it for my favorite fighters that I care about seeing. And I'm Finished.....

Thanks to spuraki, ABE FOREMAN, nhbguy, onepunchJD, Hate420, Client9, SOO72, Pro ice, OUTCOLD, ryanVondoom, RJJH, lookoutawhale, whistleblower, MrColdCock, SumBJJ, Sal Penis, donkeypunch55, RamboJohnJ, madxyientist, ClintK9, FerrozzoFan, disbeliever, EvilYoshida,Neil McCauley , D241, Funaki #1, Helwig, rockwell, Haulport, jonsforsberg, SKARHEAD for sticking around through all the Zuffa UFC shit years and still post on this forum after all these years to give me a reason around.

 
3/26/12 10:49 PM
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EatonBeever
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Edited: 03/26/12 10:50 PM
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 And I'm done...... peace out folks.
3/26/12 10:50 PM
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DamnSevern
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 LOL, jeesus you're obsessed with me

 I make more threads about non zuffa mma than you and 99% of the rest of the forum.
3/26/12 10:51 PM
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wiggum
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JoeTheWildRover -  hahaha was this entire frat to rip on damnsevern? if so that's hilarious


Yeah. WTF?
3/26/12 10:51 PM
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caposa
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I'm sure there's a couple good points in there somewhere, but god damn.

I think you may have finally lost it. Phone Post
3/26/12 10:52 PM
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EatonBeever
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DamnSevern -  LOL, jeesus you're obsessed with me

 I make more threads about non zuffa mma than you and 99% of the rest of the forum.
Let me ask you a question noob - now that Alistair is with UFC, are you going to root for him or stick by your guns and claim he's overrated ???   Do you have a position or just ride the nuts of anyone who's winning and signed with Zuffa ?  Where's your loyality ?
 

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