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UnderGround Forums >> The Rise & Problems of Zuffa UFC by EatonBeever


2/4/14 8:30 PM
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Cann
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Thread needs a TL;DR. Short summary of the "problems of Zuffa UFC"
2/4/14 8:39 PM
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brich07
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The rise and problems? Ahah Phone Post 3.0
2/4/14 8:41 PM
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crazydave
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GOAT thread is back bitches!

2/4/14 8:46 PM
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macblack
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Good read Phone Post 3.0
2/5/14 12:48 AM
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EatonBeever
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ShoeMoney - 
EatonBeever -

UFC 169 proves my point.

Bro we really need to get a colabrotive google doc going w this and I can get it published. Do it fr charity or something. Phone Post 3.0

whatever you need, ill do it

2/5/14 12:50 AM
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RyannVonDoom
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Cann - Thread needs a TL;DR. Short summary of the "problems of Zuffa UFC"
Fuck off with that. Phone Post 3.0
2/5/14 4:19 AM
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strikeforce187
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Great read, this will shake up peoples opinions of dana white, the ufc, and what the sport should be about.
2/5/14 5:42 AM
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Musashi
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Jesus. That reads like it was written by someone in the ninth grade. The whole published format makes it seem like a bad joke. wtf
2/5/14 5:42 AM
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Musashi
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(no offense)
2/5/14 6:32 AM
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Lex_o
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Wow good read Phone Post 3.0
2/8/14 11:52 AM
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OUTCOLD
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love it !
2/8/14 6:04 PM
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EatonBeever
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^^ Thanks guys

2/8/14 7:09 PM
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D241
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EatonBeever - 

UFC 169 proves my point.

 

Just look at how it stacks against previous Superbowl cards...

Lets take a look at the last 10 UFC Superbowl ppv's:

UFC 51

Paul Buentello vs Justin Eilers

Pete Sell vs Phil Baroni

Karo Parisyan vs Chris Lytle

Nick Diaz vs Drew Fickett

Evan Tanner vs David Terrell

Andrei Arvloski vs Tim Sylvia

Vitor Belfort vs Tito Ortiz

 

UFC 57

Keith Jardine vs Mike Whitehead

Alessio Sakara vs Elvis Sinosic

Brandon Vera vs Justin Eilers

Marcio Cruz vs Frank Mir

Renato Sobral vs Mike Van Arsdale

Joe Riggs vs Nick Diaz

Chuck Liddell vs Randy Couture

(also had Jeff Monson and Paul Buentello fight opponents on this card as well)

 

UFC 67

Roger Huerta vs John Halverson

Lyoto Machida vs Sam Hoger

Tyson Griffin vs Frankie Edgar

Mirko Filipovic vs Eddie Sanchez

Marvin Eastman vs Rampage Jackson

Travis Lutter vs Anderson Silva

 

UFC 81

Tyson Griffin vs Gleison Tibau

Ricardo Almeida vs Rob Yundt

Nate Marquardt vs Jeremy Horn

Frank Mir vs Brock Lesnar

Antonio Nogueira vs Tim Sylvia

(Also Chris Lytle, Marvin Eastamn, Tim Boetsch fought on the card as well.)

 

2/8/14 7:10 PM
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D241
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UFC 94

Akihiro Gono vs Jon Fitch

Thiago Tavares vs Manny Gamburyan

Clay Guida vs Nate Diaz

Karo Parisyan vs Dong Hyun Kim

Jon Jones vs Stephan Bonnar

Lyoto Machida vs Thiago Silva

BJ Penn vs GSP 2 

 

UFC 109

Phil Davis vs Brian Stann

Melvin Guillard vs Ronys Torres

Matt Serra vs Frank Trigg

Demian Maia vs Dan Miller

Paulo Thiago vs Mike Swick

Chael Sonnen vs Nate Marquardt

Randy Couture vs Mark Coleman

 

UFC 126

Kid Yamamoto vs Demetrious Mighty Mouse Johnson

Chad Mendez vs Michihiro Omigawa

Donald Cerrone vs Paul Kelly

Miguel Torres vs Antonio Banuelos

Jon Jones vs Ryan Bader

Forrest Griffin vs Rich Franklin

Vitor Belfort vs Anderson Silva

 

UFC 143

Matt Brown vs Chris Kope

Edwin Figuera vs Alex Caceres

Dustin Poireir vs Max Holloway

Renan Barao vs Scott Jorgensen

Josh Koscheck vs Mike Pierce

Fabricio Werdum vs Roy Nelson

Carlos Condit vs Nick Diaz

(Stephen Wonderboy Thompson made his anticipated debut, Matt Riddle and Rafael Natal had fights on this card as well.)

 

UFC 156

Tyron Woodley vs Jay Hieron

Evan Dunham vs Gleison Tibau

Joseph Benavidez vs Ian Mccall

Demian Maia vs Jon Fitch

Antonio Silva vs Alistair Overeem

Antonio Rogerio Nogueira vs Rashad Evans

Jose Aldo vs Frankie Edgar

(also had Yves Edwards and Bobby Green fights on the card as well.)

 

UFC 169

Frank Mir vs Alistair Overeem

Ricardo Lamas vs Jose Aldo

Renan Barao vs Urijah Faber

 
2/8/14 7:14 PM
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D241
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Overeem vs Mir would've had more interest if both fighters weren't riding losing streaks and in jeopordy of getting cut.

Lamas/Aldo, not very exciting going in and ended up being a rather boring fight.

Faber vs Barao was an interesting fight, but this was the best they could do for a superbowl head liner? Cherry on top was the controversial finish, but hard to fault UFC for the finish. 

 

Comparing main card/co&main event fights, UFC 169 is arguably the worst superbowl card.....and this is at a time when UFC has the most spending money, the most possible views, a network deal, etc.....

 

Water down the cards, make that money, profit profit profit. Stale stale stale product.

2/9/14 6:42 PM
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Wasa-B
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EatonBeever - 

UFC 169 proves my point.


That being?

It was a pretty good card with 2 title fights with 2 of the best champs we have right now and 2 of the top P4P guys and also being from the same camp added some hype as well. Faber a had FOTY candidate year last year as well. Lamas was an underdog but legit earned the shot.

That they all ended up in dec except for the Barao fight is besides the point to me. An org's job is to put top matchups together with the top guys. If they are exciting and have finishes, thats a bonus but i wanna see the best guys in the sport compete against each other like fans in other sports do.

That we got to see Bendo/Josh on TV a few weeks ago and get to see fckin Machica/Moussasi on TV along with Jacare, Erick Silva in another week is pretty dam good imo.
2/9/14 6:45 PM
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Wasa-B
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I think the expectations of the fans is just as big a problem as anything Zuffa related. Yes, im all for more stacked cards and all but i think 169 was a pretty good card. Could it have been better for SB weekend? Sure...
2/9/14 6:47 PM
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Wasa-B
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I think the expectations of the fans is just as big a problem as anything Zuffa related. Yes, im all for more stacked cards and all but i think 169 was a pretty good card. Could it have been better for SB weekend? Sure...
2/9/14 7:00 PM
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sparkuri
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@ WasaB-^^^That card was so good I still haven't seen it.

One point is that they're promoting the brand instead of the fighters, SO...

Overeem/Mir - The HW match of name recogntion, fighting to NOT get cut, and it showed.

A pile of little dudes, most with no recognition by the casual fan, all fighting to not get cut.
2/9/14 7:24 PM
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Wasa-B
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you werent interested in those 2 title fights? aldo? barao? faber? not saying it was the cards to end all cards but im into aldo and barao so...

are they promoting the brand over the fighters? i guess so and not that im down with that either. Mir/Overeem, fighting not to get cut? Well, would that be any diff for any 2 teams facing elimination to just win? Thats what i mean by expectations - they often overlook the realities of sports in general. Yeah, i knew Reem was holding back but couldnt really blame him with 2 straight losses. He nearly had the finish once but i didnt think he looked good enough to fight JDS but he got the W and thats what really matters.

But now we're looking out for name recognition for the casual fan? I thought its all about the real fights with the real fighters? Like Lamas...sure, again, he was a solid underdog vs Aldo but thats because everyone fighting Aldo is. And Lamas beat the snot out of Koch, the shit that counts, tapped out Swanson, beat Hioki when he was a title contender and doesnt talk smack. Do we want him to start acting like Chael and Ronda?

Like im all for some guys talking smack and making it fun but thats obviously not what its all about, right?
2/9/14 7:28 PM
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Wasa-B
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Btw, if you ask me if the cards are overpriced for the talent, i would absolutely agree. But it seems like a given for the UG to whine about ...everything.

I thought this thread was more about the "real sport," stuff the hardcore ("real") fans are into so bit confused by looking out for not enough name recognition for the casual fan.
2/9/14 7:31 PM
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EatonBeever
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sparkuri - @ WasaB-^^^That card was so good I still haven't seen it.

One point is that they're promoting the brand instead of the fighters, SO...

Overeem/Mir - The HW match of name recogntion, fighting to NOT get cut, and it showed.

A pile of little dudes, most with no recognition by the casual fan, all fighting to not get cut.

exactly

2/9/14 8:05 PM
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D241
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Wasa-B - I think the expectations of the fans is just as big a problem as anything Zuffa related. Yes, im all for more stacked cards and all but i think 169 was a pretty good card. Could it have been better for SB weekend? Sure...
 
 

That's what I was comparing it to.

Compared to other ppv cards, no complaints.

But UFC before the superbowl is what New Years Eve shows were to Pride.

As I pointed out above, UFC ALWAYS puts on the best fights they can the day before the superbowl. 

UFC 2014 is making more money than ever more than likely, correct?

169 had the 2nd biggest payroll of all superbowl UFC shows, and this was the best they could come up with?

I don't think so. 

 

If you rank the 10 UFC superbowl cards, 169 is arguably #10 or #9 at best.

2/9/14 9:16 PM
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sparkuri
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Wasa-B - you werent interested in those 2 title fights? aldo? barao? faber? not saying it was the cards to end all cards but im into aldo and barao so...

are they promoting the brand over the fighters? i guess so and not that im down with that either. Mir/Overeem, fighting not to get cut? Well, would that be any diff for any 2 teams facing elimination to just win? Thats what i mean by expectations - they often overlook the realities of sports in general. Yeah, i knew Reem was holding back but couldnt really blame him with 2 straight losses. He nearly had the finish once but i didnt think he looked good enough to fight JDS but he got the W and thats what really matters.

But now we're looking out for name recognition for the casual fan? I thought its all about the real fights with the real fighters? Like Lamas...sure, again, he was a solid underdog vs Aldo but thats because everyone fighting Aldo is. And Lamas beat the snot out of Koch, the shit that counts, tapped out Swanson, beat Hioki when he was a title contender and doesnt talk smack. Do we want him to start acting like Chael and Ronda?

Like im all for some guys talking smack and making it fun but thats obviously not what its all about, right?

As far as the title fights, sure, I like those guys. But I liked them on WEC for free. No way in hell this monopoly is gonna make me move from my living room, or pay to see it.
I'd much rather see Wand vs. Cung pt.2,3,4,and 5.

It's not that we're overlooking the realities of the sport, so much as pointing out that's not the way fans envisioned "support the sport" when we were doing so.
We did it with the idea we were supporting an organization that was going to set itself apart from boxing and WWE.
Instead, we get boxing regs. and a WWE figurehead.

I obviously do not accept the elimination mentality. The UFC seems to, and it's added to the degradation of the UFC organization. But it's made sure to keep a figure here and there to keep interest up for hardcores. The Wandy's and Lytles of the world, ect., those now being Hunt, Wandy, Chael, ect.

I actually do not care about the belts one bit, not at all.

Regarding name recognition for casuals, that would be me at the moment, because I have no fucking clue who half these midgets are.
They all look the same, talk the same and fight the same. The same shit over and over and over.
It's hard to care if I can't differentiate these guys. 50 baby Brazilians, 10 Japanese, 50 Caucasians, 10 Russians, ect., but there is no "show", there is no grandiose, there is no tournament, there is no vested interest.
Just rinse and repeat.
There's more care given to corporate sponsorship than the fighters right after a 3 round battle.
Shit, remember when Cro Cop had to take the mic Pride style?
That was dope.

Fighters now are coming off the assembly line, and all Zuffa cares about is putting together a card that "will fly" for the rest of eternity, and manufacture interest at the last moment and sponsor Corn nuts and beer to get the post teen crowd drunk enough to think they're getting something cool.

Meanwhile, the fighters are all broke, have their images signed away, along with most of their futures.
And propaganda has worked so well that now fans care about what's best for business. It's friggin nuts to me.

I don't care who won Frye/Tank, because everybody won.

Dana says "leave it in the ring" , then Zuffa cuts guys who did; guys we wanna see again.

Anyway, the card sucked, glad I didn't waste 3 hours and $ on it.
Thankfully Moose/Machida is free.
2/9/14 9:49 PM
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EatonBeever
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sparkuri - 
Wasa-B - you werent interested in those 2 title fights? aldo? barao? faber? not saying it was the cards to end all cards but im into aldo and barao so...

are they promoting the brand over the fighters? i guess so and not that im down with that either. Mir/Overeem, fighting not to get cut? Well, would that be any diff for any 2 teams facing elimination to just win? Thats what i mean by expectations - they often overlook the realities of sports in general. Yeah, i knew Reem was holding back but couldnt really blame him with 2 straight losses. He nearly had the finish once but i didnt think he looked good enough to fight JDS but he got the W and thats what really matters.

But now we're looking out for name recognition for the casual fan? I thought its all about the real fights with the real fighters? Like Lamas...sure, again, he was a solid underdog vs Aldo but thats because everyone fighting Aldo is. And Lamas beat the snot out of Koch, the shit that counts, tapped out Swanson, beat Hioki when he was a title contender and doesnt talk smack. Do we want him to start acting like Chael and Ronda?

Like im all for some guys talking smack and making it fun but thats obviously not what its all about, right?

As far as the title fights, sure, I like those guys. But I liked them on WEC for free. No way in hell this monopoly is gonna make me move from my living room, or pay to see it.
I'd much rather see Wand vs. Cung pt.2,3,4,and 5.

It's not that we're overlooking the realities of the sport, so much as pointing out that's not the way fans envisioned "support the sport" when we were doing so.
We did it with the idea we were supporting an organization that was going to set itself apart from boxing and WWE.
Instead, we get boxing regs. and a WWE figurehead.

I obviously do not accept the elimination mentality. The UFC seems to, and it's added to the degradation of the UFC organization. But it's made sure to keep a figure here and there to keep interest up for hardcores. The Wandy's and Lytles of the world, ect., those now being Hunt, Wandy, Chael, ect.

I actually do not care about the belts one bit, not at all.

Regarding name recognition for casuals, that would be me at the moment, because I have no fucking clue who half these midgets are.
They all look the same, talk the same and fight the same. The same shit over and over and over.
It's hard to care if I can't differentiate these guys. 50 baby Brazilians, 10 Japanese, 50 Caucasians, 10 Russians, ect., but there is no "show", there is no grandiose, there is no tournament, there is no vested interest.
Just rinse and repeat.
There's more care given to corporate sponsorship than the fighters right after a 3 round battle.
Shit, remember when Cro Cop had to take the mic Pride style?
That was dope.

Fighters now are coming off the assembly line, and all Zuffa cares about is putting together a card that "will fly" for the rest of eternity, and manufacture interest at the last moment and sponsor Corn nuts and beer to get the post teen crowd drunk enough to think they're getting something cool.

Meanwhile, the fighters are all broke, have their images signed away, along with most of their futures.
And propaganda has worked so well that now fans care about what's best for business. It's friggin nuts to me.

I don't care who won Frye/Tank, because everybody won.

Dana says "leave it in the ring" , then Zuffa cuts guys who did; guys we wanna see again.

Anyway, the card sucked, glad I didn't waste 3 hours and $ on it.
Thankfully Moose/Machida is free.

This is an unbelievable amazing post by sparkuri.  I couldn't have said it better... "Rinse & Repeat". 

Everyone fights the same, looks the same, acts the same, same ole crap each and every UFC event.  You can't tell any of them apart. 

 

Great Post, sparkuri


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