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4/2/12 5:03 PM
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ValeTudo020
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GeekGround,

I come on here daily and I always enjoy the awesome discussions everybody can have. There are always a "Who would win a fight?" or "Who's better?" thread that always sparks great conversation so here's what propose: We'll have one on one debates. We'll keep it simple. I (or anyone else) will give a comic related topic with two options.

Here are the rules:
1. Keep the posts to fewer than 150 words (nobody's counting so keep it short)
2. The first person to post on a topic can rebut in 50 words or less and gets to choose the next topic (in the rebuttal post)
Example: poster 1's Argument, poster 2's argument, poster 1's rebuttal & topic

We can cover a bunch of topics without a million threads. Be as broad or specific as you want when picking a topic.

First topic:

Marvel or DC
4/2/12 6:19 PM
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ValeTudo020
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Dead Again -  Batman.


Batman is a walking Deus Ex Machina. Marvel is better.
4/2/12 6:29 PM
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Mumbly Joe
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Marvel vs DC

Comics - Marvel
Movies - Marvel (love Batman, but never cared for any of the movies)
Animation - DC

Marvel wins.
4/2/12 7:55 PM
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ValeTudo020
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Ok. Let's move on. New topic.

Rob Liefeld: Yay or nay (I honestly want to see someone defend him)
4/2/12 9:27 PM
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MarkRobinson
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Rob came into comic fame when he was just a teenager. He never took it upon himself to learn the fundamentals of anatomy and continues to sell comics without giving a fuck. despite a sea of haters.

The man just doesn't give a fuck. He should be in the guiness book of world records for drawing more pouches than anyone ever. Rob liefelds life is a story about the American dream...and how pouches make you a badass.
4/3/12 1:15 AM
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MarkRobinson
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Roberto Liefeld is an acclaimed surrealist artist who specializes in mind boggling new renditions of human anatomy. Pushing bone structure to never before seen limits.
4/3/12 7:20 AM
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JudOWNED
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 I'll bite and play devil's advocate.  When Rob first came on the scene his stuff was new and fresh.  No, it wasn't drawn to realistic proportions, but it was stylized.  And it had a look that contrasted pretty starkly with the cleanly drawn work we were used to seeing in comics.  Instead, with Leifeld, we got art and characters that looked dirty with lots of lines and action.  His art got out of control for a while, but lately it is a lot better. 
4/3/12 12:58 PM
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ValeTudo020
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Edited: 04/03/12 1:05 PM
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JudOWNED -  I'll bite and play devil's advocate.  When Rob first came on the scene his stuff was new and fresh.  No, it wasn't drawn to realistic proportions, but it was stylized.  And it had a look that contrasted pretty starkly with the cleanly drawn work we were used to seeing in comics.  Instead, with Leifeld, we got art and characters that looked dirty with lots of lines and action.  His art got out of control for a while, but lately it is a lot better. 

THIS! I hate Leifeld now but as 6 year old seeing the X-Force #1 in 1991, I'd have to agree. I loved that art as a child. It makes perfect sense.

You sir get to pick the next category. Let's hit as many things as possible!
4/3/12 1:44 PM
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JudOWNED
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 I wanna talk about the Hulk!  Came up in another thread, but the Hulk get's jobbed out far too often.  When initially concieved he was supposed to be the absolute strongest.  He should've been the marvel counterpoint to Superman, but a raging beast whereas supes is the perfect man.  The Hulk should be one of the most powerful characters in the MU, but he really isn't.

Discuss.
4/9/12 1:44 PM
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Last Don
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I love this thread, but I'm fairly certain I'll find myself disagreeing with the OP on every post.

As far as Hulk is concerned, I don't think it's just him. Can anyone think of an ultra-powerful character that DOESN'T consistently job to less powerful characters? It's how comic book writers "keep it interesting."

For instance: Juggernaught, Apocalypse, Silver Surfer, Spiderman, etc.

Conversely, you have underpowered Deus Ex Machina characters like Batman, Capt. America, Reed Richards, Tony Stark, Wolverine, Spiderman (to an extent, he goes both ways).

So yes, I agree Hulk jobs, but I don't think he does it more than anyone else. Also, WWH DEFINITELY negates any and all jobbing. He took on the entire Marvel Universe, and won.
4/9/12 3:21 PM
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ValeTudo020
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Zenoplata - How are Captain America, Wolverine and Spider-Man deus ex machinas?

Deus ex machina translates to god of the machine. It's used when a character in fiction basically serves as a plot-device by being able to warp the world with a cheap fix for whatever problems may surface in the plot. Something like when Dr. Strange casts a spell that fixes all of the damage done from an alien invasion, or when Batman is able to time travel by summoning a giant squid, I don't see how anything Wolverine or Captain America have done warrants them being called deus ex's.


And with that, you can pick the next topic
4/10/12 8:00 AM
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Last Don
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Zenoplata - How are Captain America, Wolverine and Spider-Man deus ex machinas?

Deus ex machina translates to god of the machine. It's used when a character in fiction basically serves as a plot-device by being able to warp the world with a cheap fix for whatever problems may surface in the plot. Something like when Dr. Strange casts a spell that fixes all of the damage done from an alien invasion, or when Batman is able to time travel by summoning a giant squid, I don't see how anything Wolverine or Captain America have done warrants them being called deus ex's.


I agree that their power sets don't create a deus ex machina in the way that Reed Richards, Dr. Strange or Batman do, but all three of the characters I mentioned have been written to be nearly invincible, often with cheap fixes. For instance, Wolverine fighting and defeating the devil to return to life every time he dies.
4/10/12 9:16 AM
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JudOWNED
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 Walking Dead is good, for sure, but it suffers from the same problem as Lost or Gilligan's Island, imo.  Which is that it can't really progress without changing the nature of the story.  I mean, if they really start building a society, restoring order, etc. then it kind of ceases to be a Zombie/horror story.  But if it stays a Zombie/horror story, than it eventually becomes repetitive and stale.  Invincible is good too, but has changed from a "let's do supeheroes where their powers work more like they're supposed to" type of concept to a Dragonball-esque "Mark has now become a level 12 Viltrumite, but will that be enough to defeat Thragg???" type of thing. 

My vote is for The Boys.  Nice twist on Superheroes, solid writing, and just when it was about to lose me by getting a bit stale they bring me back with a vengeance!

4/10/12 9:45 AM
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Last Don
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No, because of the GG'ers works on the book. Out of respect, we don't post it here.
4/10/12 10:45 AM
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MarkRobinson
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I started reading The Boys last week. its fucking fantastic.



4/10/12 10:59 PM
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MarkRobinson
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I've thought that Invincible was very similar to a lot of themes from DBZ since I first started reading it. Not a bad thing. DBZ was an excellent concept that got stale due to poor writing.

The boys is just beautiful. Such a wonderful concept. Phone Post
4/10/12 11:08 PM
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MarkRobinson
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Zeno ive been spending a ton of money DLing issues of the boys from the comixology app on my iPad.

1.99 an issue Phone Post
4/11/12 8:35 AM
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ValeTudo020
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NEW TOPIC! Next person picks!
4/11/12 9:08 AM
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MarkRobinson
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Thor should beat Hulk in 9 out of 10 fights.

4/11/12 9:46 AM
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Granpa
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Marvel. DC characters, with the exception of Batman, lack soul.
4/11/12 10:32 AM
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Last Don
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I'll bite on the Thor/Hulk thing.

I agree that Thor has a much greater potential offensively, but the way Hulk has been written lately, especially in WWH, he should be effectively invincible. Unless Thor can somehow launch Hulk into space, there's not much he can do to stop Hulk.

Wasn't it Spiderman that took Hulk's eye out, and it nearly instantly regenerated?
4/11/12 12:01 PM
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JudOWNED
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 Well, Thor, as a character, was created to be more powerful than the Hulk.  I actually read a quote where Stan Lee said that.  Who could be more powerful than the Hulk?  Only a god could be.  And Thor is a god.  I truly believe that previous to WWH, Hulk got jobbed a lot.  But Thor is one of the few mainstream MU characters that should legitimately be able to beat him.
4/11/12 6:07 PM
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CharlesLewis
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 Thor should win 8/10. Without the hammer, Hulk wins.
4/12/12 2:46 AM
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MarkRobinson
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Im a firm believer that at a certain point strength just doesnt even matter. who cares if Thor can lift 900 million tons and hulk can lift 10000 million. Both of them have shown such ridiculous strength feats. 

Thor is still much faster, has mjolnir, is a much better fighter, has better mobility and has a ton of under used magic. regardless of how angry hulk gets he can be KOd. 

WWH was a fanboys dream story told in canon instead of What-If. everyone was an absolute idiot except for hulk. Including Sentry who had a ridiculous moment of character induced stupidity in order to wrap that story line up. 

Thors strength and speed swinging mjolnir with fat lightning equals an absolute beat down. The Fear Itself story was dumb to have Thor exhausted after fighting worthy thing and hulk, when Thor can fight for months on end without being tired. 
4/12/12 3:24 PM
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paw
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Zenoplata - Why is it assumed Hulk is ridiculously slow and everyone else is so fast? I've always assumed Hulk's resistance to damage, and healing factor were increased as his anger grew.

I wouldn't say Hulk is ridiculously slow, only that he isn't superhumanly fast.

If Hulk's resistance to damage and healing factor increase as his anger increases...he would be a DC character, imo.

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