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UnderGround Forums >> Alves fires 'takedown, takedown' corner man


4/6/12 6:00 PM
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Rafael135
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DeuceDroppin - Who is the corner man? Phone Post
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4/6/12 6:04 PM
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Motivated Penn
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The link in OP's post doesn't work.

<a href="http://Following a last-minute loss to Martin Kampmann this past month at UFC on FX 2, onetime welterweight challenger Thiago Alves has let go of a cornerman whom he said gave him bad directions during the fight. Alves takes some responsibility for a takedown attempt that led to him getting caught in a guillotine choke moments after stinging Kampmman with a big right hand. But he said it's not the first time he's had troubles with the member of his team, who also acts as a jiu-jitsu coach. "I didn't know how bad [Kampmann] was hurt," Alves told MMAjunkie.com Radio (www.mmajunkie.com/radio). "When you're fighting, you're in the zone. You just react to stuff, and my cornerman was like, 'Takedown, takedown, takedown.' I went for it and just made a mistake."" target="_blank">read entire article...</a>

wat
4/6/12 6:20 PM
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Tzu
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This article is more or less a summarized version of his interview on mmajunkieradio from last Tuesday.

There he emphasizes that he doesn't blame his cornerman for the loss, but that the bad advice was one of the reasons for them parting ways.
4/6/12 6:27 PM
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12SixElbow
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JJ1337 - there was nothing really wrong with telling him to go for the takedown, you have the opponent hurt, less than a minute left in the round, you take him down for some GnP and guarantee the win, the fact that he landed in a guillotine is his problem, when was the last time someone at that level got finished in a guillotine off a takedown attempt

 This was my other thought.

Why is it the cornerman's fault you got sloppy and got caught in a choke?
4/6/12 6:44 PM
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cyberc92
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Did any of you read the article? He fired him because the cornerman placed a bet on the fight and Alves thinks that part of the reason he was told to shoot for a takedown was that so he could win safely and his corner could win his bet.

Alves felt that it was a conflict of interest and he didn't want a cornerman betting on his fights because he felt that they wouldn't give him the best advice during a fight.
4/6/12 7:01 PM
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Keh932
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sim - the cornerman's defense, he didn't say "go for a double and leave yourself open to the guillotine". He just said "takedown" that could have meant a single leg or get a bodylock. Maybe they knew Kampann was rocked was going to have a hard time defending a takedown and they wanted Alves to stay on top and get the safe win? It's not like Alves' coach told him to go for a leglock on Pahlares. Kampmann does have good guillotines though

That's almost like blaming your coach for telling you to throw a left hook and the guy slips the punch, counters and knocks you out.

Ummmmmm not like that at all! Actually its exactly what it was . . . ALves CLEARLY geting the better of nearly all the Standup exchanges, and his corner screaming at him for a takedown on a guy that is better on the ground than him with 1 minute left!!!! It WAS shitty advise, and your analogy is total shit!!

This is pretty simple. Alves doesnt trust his advise(and rightfully so) So he would prefer someone else! What is wrong with that, and y would anyone have a prob with that Dec???
4/6/12 7:04 PM
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Sonnen Fanboy
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Rafael135 -
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4/6/12 7:06 PM
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Motivated Penn
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I have no problem with Alves changing his cornermen. Especially if they give poor advice, and revealed in a way that sat poorly with Alves, that he had bet on the fight.

But why does he do it publicly? Pretty weak.
4/6/12 7:11 PM
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Kneeblock
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4/6/12 7:18 PM
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CLINT NJHC
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He said to get a takedown, not get caught in a guillotine choke Thiago! Doh!
4/6/12 7:18 PM
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LokiTheJester
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Edited: 04/06/12 7:19 PM
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"I didn't know how bad I was hurt," Alves told MMAjunkie.com Radio.


Fixed.
4/6/12 7:28 PM
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KC007
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Telling your fighter to go for a takedown when the fighter has the opponent rocked against the cage is terrible advice. Phone Post
4/6/12 7:57 PM
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JOESONDO
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How is it any different than firing your financial advisor for giving you bad financial advice? You made the decision but their job is to give you good advice. Your ARE taking responsibility by firing him. You take the loss but it's up to you to make sure it doesn't happen again and part of that is firing the person who gave you the bad advice. He isn't saying he isn't going to take the loss and it's not his fault but it's his responsibility to make sure he gets the best advice and a takedown when the other guy is hurt was not the best advice.
4/6/12 10:24 PM
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swany
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Alves u got caught not ya cornermen
4/6/12 10:52 PM
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Neph
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JOESONDO - How is it any different than firing your financial advisor for giving you bad financial advice? You made the decision but their job is to give you good advice. Your ARE taking responsibility by firing him. You take the loss but it's up to you to make sure it doesn't happen again and part of that is firing the person who gave you the bad advice. He isn't saying he isn't going to take the loss and it's not his fault but it's his responsibility to make sure he gets the best advice and a takedown when the other guy is hurt was not the best advice.

It's rather dramatically different to this example. In one you hand over control to another and trust in them, and in the other you maintain control and handle it yourself.

A financial advisor will generally take the money and distribute it to multiple investment funds who will then manage it. So while you agree to it, you do not handle the outcome at all and are at their mercy.

In MMA, you once again take the advice, but it is you who actually handles the outcome. There are countless times that a takedown at the end secures a win or 'plays it safe'. Is it the fault of the cornerman or is it the fault of his JJ? Clearly with the benefit of hindsight it was a poor choice.
4/6/12 11:17 PM
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UGCTT_Fillthy
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no reason to hate on Alves for letting the guy go...but going public and blaming him for your shitty execution is pretty pathetic. It was good advice, considering how far ahead on the cards Alves was at the time, and the one-shot KO power of Kampmann.

Going for a TD didn't get you choked, doing it wrong got you choked.
4/7/12 4:35 PM
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InYourMomaCloset
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Edited: 04/07/12 4:35 PM
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Hessian - 
InYourMomaCloset -  Good.

Nothing worse than having a shitty cornerman yelling retarded instructions in the heat of a fight.

Fire that dumb cunt!!


Wow shocking , a disrespectful douche on a MMA forum.

I wasn't being disrespectful.
I was being honest.

There is few things worse, during a fight at least.

Corner men can get a bit ahead of themselves sometimes.
It's their job to advise a fighter objectively, not yell at him what he should and shouldn't be doing.

I nor anybody here at least really knows in particulars of the situation, but if Alves fired him, I'm sure he didn't do it as a means to apportion blame for the loss.
He obviously felt there was good reason to do it.
That seems logical to me at least. 
4/7/12 7:22 PM
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mikethecricket
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I think when your cornerman yells "takedown, takedown!"

he means

"execute a proper takedown"

not

"go for a takedown but leave your neck exposed"
4/8/12 9:38 AM
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smac 2.0
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What is a plenthora?
4/8/12 10:48 AM
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ryanJ
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 Of course the final accountaibility for the loss comes down to the fighter, but if the cornerman holds no accountability for their performance they should be fired simply because they are uneccessary. 

I hold all the accountability for my finances, but if I hire someone to give me financial advice and I take a big loss, I am probably going to get rid of them, even though the utlimate blame goes to me and my execution of their plan might have played in to the poor results. If for no other reason, I need to feel confident in the advice I am getting.
4/8/12 11:06 AM
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InYourMomaCloset
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ryanJ -  Of course the final accountaibility for the loss comes down to the fighter, but if the cornerman holds no accountability for their performance they should be fired simply because they are uneccessary. 

I hold all the accountability for my finances, but if I hire someone to give me financial advice and I take a big loss, I am probably going to get rid of them, even though the utlimate blame goes to me and my execution of their plan might have played in to the poor results. If for no other reason, I need to feel confident in the advice I am getting.

 I'd offer a retort to the above question, but this covers it pretty much exactly.

And I assume you mean plethora.
Yes, I know what it means, and I'm wondering the relavence of such an abstract question relative to this context??
4/8/12 2:06 PM
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ufcman187
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I am not taking up for Alves, but listening to your corner is what you are supposed to do. They shout out instructions they think is in your best interest. Sometimes good, in this case OFF THE CHARTS BAD.
4/8/12 5:49 PM
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sim
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Keh932 - 
sim - the cornerman's defense, he didn't say "go for a double and leave yourself open to the guillotine". He just said "takedown" that could have meant a single leg or get a bodylock. Maybe they knew Kampann was rocked was going to have a hard time defending a takedown and they wanted Alves to stay on top and get the safe win? It's not like Alves' coach told him to go for a leglock on Pahlares. Kampmann does have good guillotines though

That's almost like blaming your coach for telling you to throw a left hook and the guy slips the punch, counters and knocks you out.

Ummmmmm not like that at all! Actually its exactly what it was . . . ALves CLEARLY geting the better of nearly all the Standup exchanges, and his corner screaming at him for a takedown on a guy that is better on the ground than him with 1 minute left!!!! It WAS shitty advise, and your analogy is total shit!!

This is pretty simple. Alves doesnt trust his advise(and rightfully so) So he would prefer someone else! What is wrong with that, and y would anyone have a prob with that Dec???


Alves got caught, it happens. Obviously Kampmann caught him with a guillotine but the last time Alves got tapped was 7 years ago against Spencer Fisher. He's no slouch on the ground. He's fought Hughes, GSP and Karo on the ground and wasn't submitted. Yea, he didn't shoot on them but it just shows that Alves knows how to grapple. He was taking his opponent down in his last fight and no one was complaining then and if I'm not mistaken Alves got rocked early in the first round against kampmann so he wasn't winning every exchange.

I agree 100% that it would have made more sense for him to finish the fight standing instead of trying to take him down but if Alves successfully finished the takedown and landed some nice ground and pound to end the fight, I wouldn't have thought it was a bad idea either. On the other hand, if a bjj guy with decent striking had a gameplan to trade with a really good striker and ended up knocking him out, I would have said good job but it probably wasn't the smartest gameplan even though you came out with the win.

I don't think there's anything wrong with his decision. If he doesn't feel comfortable with his cornerman then by all means he should let him go. I'm just saying the cornerman isn't probably as bad as everyone is making him out to be. My point is that sometimes coaches get too much blame for a fighter's loss.
4/8/12 5:52 PM
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UGCTT_JaseHxC
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 I'd really like to see Alves switch up his camp. No disrespect to ATT as they are worldly in terms of training and what they offer to their fighters, but I always wonder what would happen if Alves ventured out of his comfort zone.

RoufusSport comes to mind...
4/8/12 6:01 PM
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KONY 2012
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Find the trigger! keep him at your range and fire at the trigger!

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