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UnderGround Forums >> Munoz: TRT is cheating


4/7/12 7:18 PM
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Underground Blog
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"It's cheating. I think it's cheating. I think anything that's synthetic that you put in your body is cheating. Get it from food, get it from training. That stuff jacks you up when you're done. For me, I'm a family man, I have kids, I have a wife and I want to be there for them at the end. I think when you take PEDs or anything like that, it cuts your life short. When it becomes like that, it's almost hedonistic. It's not a sport anymore. It becomes more than a sport and it shouldn't be like that.

There's more important things in your life than that. I frown upon that, I don't like to ever see it but the truth is it is present. You can't hide it because it comes out. But then again I can stand in front of you 100-percent saying that I've never taken a drug in my life. And I'm going to keep doing that, and I'm going to win like that. If people think I'm on drugs or PEDs or whatever, come train with me. I'll show you my drugs. There's no substitution for hard work."

read entire article...


4/7/12 7:27 PM
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RandyDarsh
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Many fighters feel this way, when I find out a fighters on trt, they're performance becomes less spectacular in my eyes. Phone Post
4/7/12 7:31 PM
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zedlepln
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We'll see how the man feels when he hits his 40s and starts getting all the symptoms of low T.
4/7/12 7:37 PM
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KONY 2012
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Do you actually need testosterone to compete? Or are fighters just looking for an excuse to cheat?
4/7/12 7:38 PM
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zedlepln
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KONY 2012 - Do you actually need testosterone to compete? Or are fighters just looking for an excuse to cheat?

You need T to be healthy, let alone compete, which is exactly why the SACs offer a TUE.
4/7/12 7:42 PM
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fna
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if a fighter is on TRT they need to be more strictly tested....like monthly and year round if not more

with the marquardt situation, the PSAC makes it seem as though its cool for users to spend the weeks leading up to the fight with T levels above the accepted ratio so long as they are back down to 'acceptable' levels during fight week.

that seems very much the same as cycling illegal performance enhancers only they get a prescription for it.

dr benjamin has had some great articles and interviews on it recently. his take on the overeem situation and acceptable T/e levels this week on Maruo's show was eye opening.

here's an article with some quotes from him regarding TRT.
http://blogs.thescore.com/mma/2012/03/08/dr-johnny-benjamin-trt-is-a-loophole-in-the-system-and-guys-are-exploiting-it/
4/7/12 7:50 PM
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fna
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fna - if a fighter is on TRT they need to be more strictly tested....like monthly and year round if not more

with the marquardt situation, the PSAC makes it seem as though its cool for users to spend the weeks leading up to the fight with T levels above the accepted ratio so long as they are back down to 'acceptable' levels during fight week.

that seems very much the same as cycling illegal performance enhancers only they get a prescription for it.

dr benjamin has had some great articles and interviews on it recently. his take on the overeem situation and acceptable T/e levels this week on Maruo's show was eye opening.

here's an article with some quotes from him regarding TRT.
http://blogs.thescore.com/mma/2012/03/08/dr-johnny-benjamin-trt-is-a-loophole-in-the-system-and-guys-are-exploiting-it/


http://podcasts.thescore.com/programs/the-mma-show-with-mauro-ranallo
there's the link to get the podcast with dr benjamin's take on t/e levels and drug testing in MMA, very interesting if you have a few mins to hear it....it was the show on 4-5. I believe he was the 2nd interview after kizer(i'd recommend fast forwarding through the kizer one as he just says alot without saying anything while mauro awkwardly keeps talking over and interrupting him like he's shocked kizer didn't give him all the inside info on the reem situation)
4/7/12 7:52 PM
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Caught_clean
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I am ok with him having his opinion, but saying TRT would cut down someones length of life is just... well wrong. If anything it would be the opposite. Difference is I wont go say TRT will make you live longer because I cant prove it, the same way you cant say it will cut your life shorter, because that's bullshit.
4/7/12 7:55 PM
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DRevan
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SoccerCRE'dMyAce - 
RandyDarsh - Many fighters feel this way, when I find out a fighters on trt, they're performance becomes less spectacular in my eyes. <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


Does the sport of MMA become less spectacular in your eyes when you watch the Outside the Lines video I just posted that clearly indicates there is a serious relationship between concussions/brain trauma and an inability to produce proper hormone levels?

What do you want a fighter to do who has no other career options, who lost his ability to produce testosterone due to the dues he paid for the sport of MMA?

You think he should just quit or take the medical treatment available that is PROPER, ADVISED AND SUPERVISED?



If you have BRAIN DAMAGE, which is what you're suggesting then you should be barred from competing.

Kinda stupid to give someone PEDs to allow them to continue to damage their brain.


TRT is too easy to abuse, and is being used by people who are known liars and admitted felons...doesn't bode well.

If your body isn't up to the level of a professional athlete tough shit...you can't cut it.

People can't keep up with Usain Bolt...too bad, if you don't have what it takes you don't have it.

Ban TRT from MMA.
4/7/12 8:05 PM
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DeuceDroppin
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"That stuff jacks you up when you're done"

^^^ That sentence right there proves that this idiot has no right to publicly comment on TRT. TRT for the most part, is for life. The lack of understanding about what TRT really is is absolutely fucking mind bottling!! I expect stupid comments from the typical morons on this forum, but he should really just STFU until he gets some type of clue as to what he is talking about. Phone Post
4/7/12 8:11 PM
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Caught_clean
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Edited: 04/07/12 8:13 PM
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<blockquote>DeuceDroppin - "That stuff jacks you up when you're done"<br><br>^^^ That sentence right there proves that this idiot has no right to publicly comment on TRT. TRT for the most part, is for life. The lack of understanding about what TRT really is is absolutely fucking mind bottling!! I expect stupid comments from the typical morons on this forum, but he should really just STFU until he gets some type of clue as to what he is talking about. <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/></blockquote><br /><br />This is a much more aggressive way of saying what I was saying haha. Anything can be abused and fuck you up, TRT if used properly has much more positive benefits then negative, and will not harm your life what so ever. The moral thing in sports is debatable.
4/7/12 8:15 PM
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Bipolar
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If a person's T levels are declining naturally due to aging, then I don't believe TRT should be allowed. This is where your particular body is supposed to be as determined by nature. Why should everyone have the right to have the same levels of T? Some people are naturally stronger than others, taller, quicker, or whatever. And although there is a normal range, everyone is different. Everyone should have to fight in their natural body, imo.
4/7/12 9:48 PM
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KONY 2012
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Why can't people fight all natural? You don't NEED TRT just because the doctor says you have low test levels. What do test levels have to do with fighting? You can still fight with no testosterone in your body, its just natural to have lower test as you age. You shouldn't be able to remake yourself into a better fighter than you ever were once you hit a certain age level, you should retire if you cant keep up.
4/7/12 10:27 PM
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zedlepln
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TopGrinder - Is TRT cheating. Yes. Any way of rationalizing its legitimate use is fucking bullshit. Think about it man.

OK. I'll think. Deductive logic involves a good thought process.

Let's see, cheating is breaking the rules.
The rules, in many States, include a TUE.
Therefore, complying with a TUE is not cheating.

Doesn't look like "think about it" is very good grounds for making a case for TRT as cheating. In fact, the phrase "think about it" usually gets substituted for critical thinking when the speaker does not want to form a logical argument.
4/7/12 10:35 PM
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brahmabull81
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I think we should just take this moral ground to new heights. Lets ban ALL over the counter supplements!

If you cant get it from your fruits and veggies, you should retire!!!
4/7/12 10:40 PM
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Bravo1
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"Anything synthetic"

So someone who had permanent contact lenses, screws or metal bars, anything put into them after a shoulder or knee rebuild = cheating?


Morans



If you are doing something to give you an unfair advantage , that is cheating.

If you are taking medicine or trying to repair your body so it works again properly = not cheating. Phone Post
4/7/12 10:50 PM
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SleepBomb
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Underground Blog - 

Munoz: TRT is cheating

[MMAinterviews.TV]
 

"It's cheating. I think it's cheating. I think anything that's synthetic that you put in your body is cheating."

 

 

 if i put a dildo in my GF, we are not cheating. we are having some kinky sex type sexing stuff.
4/7/12 11:00 PM
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Motivated Penn
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TRT explained:
Fighter: Hey doc, my T:E ratio is only 1:1 what can you do plz got a big fight coming up!
Doctor: Let me get you up to a healthy 5.999:1 ratio.
Fighter: LOL ty d00d I'mma leave this envelope full of non-consecutive bills and turn my back.
4/7/12 11:26 PM
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ChaosOverkill
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Shocking that the Dicktucking pube crab CRE would be supporting TRT
4/7/12 11:28 PM
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daba
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definitely cheating.
4/7/12 11:48 PM
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TzTinkle
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TRT is just a horrible idea all around in a sport that is centered on brain trauma. The natural aging progression means that a fighter retires much sooner saving their brain trauma that it shouldn't be taking. MMA fans really have no concept of aging in combat sports because they've grown up watching roided fighters try to hold onto their glory days.

If you watch older boxing fights from the 40-70s you can see the natural progression of aging. By 27-28 most fighters are already past their prime in regards to reflexes and speed. After 30 a fighter was usually considered old. Now some of this is due to training methods and nutrition, but looking at the old timers in various sports gives us an idea of how natural athletes age.

I think Fedor is a great example of someone who aged naturally and due to a style based on speed, reflexes, and explosiveness has been exposed. Then you have his opponent Hendo who comes in with a jaw and neck of a heavyweight throwing bombs that a Fedor with better speed and reflexes could probably handle.

TRT does not make sense in the arena of combat sports where athletes are using drugs to be better able to inflict permanent damage on their opponents. It's disgusting that so many people are openly roiding like this, why doesn't MLB have a TRT exemption? It really makes the UFC look bush league to have people being popped for roids right and left while others have a script from their doctors.
4/7/12 11:54 PM
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Malvert the Janitor
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zedlepln - We'll see how the man feels when he hits his 40s and starts getting all the symptoms of low T.
Probably shouldn't feel like fighting anymore...thus the NATURAL progression of aging over time.

Shit, if Randy wants to fight until he's 70 should he just pump enough test into his body to get him back to the levels of the twenty and thirty year olds he's fighting?

Actually, that's sounds amusing! Let's do it! Phone Post
4/8/12 12:18 AM
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TzTinkle
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There is no normal level of testosterone, everyone has different levels due to diet,stress, time of day. Also, people have differing capabilities of using circulating testosterone. Anyways, how can a doctor bring someone up to normal levels of testosterone unless they were monitoring their test levels before they fell? It's not an exact science and very easy to abuse.
4/8/12 12:20 AM
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rundymc
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Bipolar - If a person's T levels are declining naturally due to aging, then I don't believe TRT should be allowed. This is where your particular body is supposed to be as determined by nature. Why should everyone have the right to have the same levels of T? Some people are naturally stronger than others, taller, quicker, or whatever. And although there is a normal range, everyone is different. Everyone should have to fight in their natural body, imo.


Opinions like yours are usually held by people who lack perspective on athletics (not to sound condescending).

Look at it this way. Tearing your ACL, and replacing it with a tendon from a corpse is not natural. Lasik eye surgery is not natural. Cutting your face open and removing scar-tissue is not natural. Taking shots of espresso before you train and/or compete, is not natural.

All of the above are allowed by (most) regulatory bodies.

The reason people SHOULD be concerned with TRT use has nothing to do with the word "natural". Nothing is "natural" because that word lacks objectivity:

-TRT users, knowing how rare random tests are, can 'cheat' and increase their dosages.

-What constitutes a medical condition that requires TRT is not clear cut... at all.

The reason I have no issue with TRT? Point 1. EVERYONE is free to cheat especially in between fights. Getting therapeutic-use exemption is just a way to legitamize the process. I'd rather guys be on TRT dosages than attempt to do real cycles in the 500-1500mg/wk range.

If EVERYONE is free to cheat, you have to assume a good number of people ARE cheating.
4/8/12 12:24 AM
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rundymc
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brahmabull81 - I think we should just take this moral ground to new heights. Lets ban ALL over the counter supplements!

If you cant get it from your fruits and veggies, you should retire!!!


Oh no!!!

I can't live without my creatine!

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