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UnderGround Forums >> Video: Ken Shamrock vs Frank Lobman (kickboxing)

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4/10/12 8:39 PM
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Pro Ice
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 You're welcome guys 

@tat2tilldie You're welcome man a good poster is a good poster, join date irrelevent
4/10/12 8:43 PM
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Pro Ice
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vandelay - TTT Ice do you have anymore of Lobman's thai/kickboxing fights? Ive seen the fight between him and Bas, thats good also, Dude was a beast!!

 There's not a lot out there, there's his fight with Osterman on youtube

I do have a pretty rare tournament from 1994 in Holland that has Aerts, Lobman ect, will share with the UG soon
4/10/12 9:12 PM
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D241
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 Wow. What a fucking warrior.

I never really liked or appreciated Ken Shamrock as much as most longtime fans, but my appreciation and admiration for him just skyrocketed after watching this.

Pro Ice, I know you get thanked for what you do, rightfully so, but Seriously man, THANK YOU, this was really awesome to watch. Made me think a lot more of a fighter I thought negative on.
4/10/12 9:20 PM
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Pro Ice
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fapout - 
William Colosimo - Ken said he took this fight- not expecting to win, but hoping to experience what a high level striker can do, so he could have a better understanding of the game

thanks for sharing..I didnt now that
Big Shamrock fan, but I believe that over the years the story might've changed  :)

I remember hearing a LONG time ago before Kens bio's that Ken thought he could KO Lobman and was saying this to the press. I remember Shamrock saying something about Lobman  having weak  "skinny legs" and Lobman saying "a horse has skinny legs but dont let it kick you" or something to that affect. Pretty sure that's why Lobman came out like he did..to prove a point
 
4/10/12 9:23 PM
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D241
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Pro Ice - 
Big Shamrock fan, but I believe that over the years the story might've changed  :)

I remember hearing a LONG time ago before Kens bio's that Ken thought he could KO Lobman and was saying this to the press. I remember Shamrock saying something about Lobman  having weak  "skinny legs" and Lobman saying "a horse has skinny legs but dont let it kick you" or something to that affect. Pretty sure that's why Lobman came out like he did..to prove a point
 

 Awesome recollection!!

I take NOTHING away from Ken for taking the fight and believing he'd get the KO. Whether that was the reason, or he wanted to gain experience, much props given.
4/10/12 9:23 PM
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Pro Ice
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 And you're welcome D2
4/10/12 10:03 PM
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vandelay
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Pro Ice -
vandelay - TTT Ice do you have anymore of Lobman's thai/kickboxing fights? Ive seen the fight between him and Bas, thats good also, Dude was a beast!!

 There's not a lot out there, there's his fight with Osterman on youtube

I do have a pretty rare tournament from 1994 in Holland that has Aerts, Lobman ect, will share with the UG soon
Awesome please do!!! You've been killin it lately with the kickboxing, its great. Thanks again Phone Post
4/10/12 10:56 PM
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onepunchJD
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Mayweedz - I've always liked the way that Ken looks like a frikken lion whenever he fights, he just has that look. Never really liked his brawler style of fighting and excessive use of movement and strength, but when it comes to his fighting spirit, it was just amazing. Not to mention when he is actually in the ring, his level of intensity and respect for his opponent is just amazing.



VTFU
4/10/12 11:07 PM
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onepunchJD
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tat2tillidie - 
Pro Ice -
var so = new SWFObject("http://www.youtube.com/v/6y394tJFxHo?version=3&hl=en_US&rel=0", "postVideo-38879326-Flash", "425", "355", "9.0.28", "##000"); so.addParam("allowScriptAccess", "samedomain"); so.addParam("allowNetworking", "internal"); so.addParam("wmode", "transparent"); so.write("postVideo-38879326");  iPhone:
Thanks bro , you sent me a PM the other day and I'm very grateful for it :) I'm no even a long standing member and you showed love , Pro Ice deserves a permanent blue the man is a asset to this forum ...



I'd vote you up if I was at the computer ... Phone Post


Pro Ice is the MVP of the UG IMO.

Seriously one of the best posters here by a mile. Even without all the cool videos.. his knowledge and understanding of MMA history, and combat sports in general, is unquestionable. The videos are a bonus.

I would love to take a week vacation just to catch up on all his threads.

I was also impressed with Ken in this fight. Dude was a monster back in the day. He could hang with people just on physicality alone. Ken was one of those guys who could have never trained, and would still be a nightmare for most average Joes. That said.. you could see how bad Ken wanted to take Lobman down. Interesting fight.

People tend to overlook the impact Ken had on the early development of MMA. Significant would be an understatement.
4/10/12 11:26 PM
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onepunchJD
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D241 - 
Pro Ice - 
Big Shamrock fan, but I believe that over the years the story might've changed  :)

I remember hearing a LONG time ago before Kens bio's that Ken thought he could KO Lobman and was saying this to the press. I remember Shamrock saying something about Lobman  having weak  "skinny legs" and Lobman saying "a horse has skinny legs but dont let it kick you" or something to that affect. Pretty sure that's why Lobman came out like he did..to prove a point
 

 Awesome recollection!!

I take NOTHING away from Ken for taking the fight and believing he'd get the KO. Whether that was the reason, or he wanted to gain experience, much props given.


Ken just had that mentality. He was confident he could take anybody. Realistically, he was mostly right.. Especially in the 90's. I think he is still like that even today, which explains why he kept fighting so long after he should have stopped.

Here is a quote from Ken's second book...

""Thats just the way my mind works when it comes to fighting. I'm confident, I've always been confident. On occasion I've been confident when I probably shouldn't have been, mainly due to injuries, but It's not something I can turn off. I could have two broken legs, and I would still think I could walk through anyone."" -Ken Shamrock

I have said here before.. Ken is a guy that would challenge King Kong to a cage fight, get his ass kicked, then spend a year hyping the rematch. He is that committed. For better or worse, that man has some balls!
4/10/12 11:28 PM
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D241
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 Worded nicely^^^
4/11/12 12:16 AM
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Jack Skellington
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 Ken kept getting up, respect

people forget how good Ken really was cause everytime he talks now he sounds like he's cutting a promo for Wrestlemania
4/11/12 5:33 AM
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whistleblower
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This fight actually used to be counted on Ken's old fightfinder record as a loss, because it took place in Pancrase and was on one of the regular Pancrase event tapes, alongside other regular Pancrase matches, but it was one of their kickboxing-rules matches (like part of the Mo Smith-Suzuki fight was).

This was the first time we had ever seen Ken really battered and dismantled.

That was eye-opening at the time.

We had seen him lose before (most U.S. NHB fans had already seen him lose the very first night we were introduced to him) - but we hadn't seen him really hurt or damaged before.

Ken definitely deserves credit for stepping up and out of his element, and he did give a creditable performance as well.

But at the time, seeing Lobman just technically pick apart and stop Ken like that really did detract from Ken's beastly mystique a bit. (Just like seeing other UFC "monsters" at the time like Kimo and Pat Smith get demolished in K-1 - like they never were in the UFC - made them seem distinctly less fearsome overall.)

We had also heard by the time of WCC that Bart Vale had also "KO'd" Ken, but most of us had not actually seen that "fight" yet to know just what that "KO" was really like, and were only going by word of mouth.

By stark contrast, the Lobman fight was very real, visual evidence that someone could actually incapacitate Ken like that, make Ken limp and unable to take any more.

Yes, Ken was prevented from using his main strengths and fighting how he would normally fight in an actual fight - but nonetheless, Ken was a physical powerhouse (as well as an effective striker in Pancrase), and it still gave pause to see someone like him made to look so vulnerable.

(He did tough it a lot out better than others, though - like especially Pat Smith against Stan the Man, for example.)

What Lobman did to Ken also further impressed upon us the reality of just how devastating and even completely fight-deciding leg kicks could be - along with continuing evidence from the emergence of K-1 at the same time (in addition to other seminal, pre-K-1 international-rules kickboxing fights like Stan the Man-Dennis Alexio).

But it took until UFC 7 with Marco Ruas to show us that same extent of effectiveness in NHB.
4/11/12 5:49 AM
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whistleblower
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Btw, after seeing how Lobman chopped down Ken, I really wanted to see Lobman in K-1 as well - but in hindsight, he was already past his prime even by the time of the Ken fight, and possibly too small for K-1 compared to their SHW beasts. Besides, Aerts pretty much ended Lobman's prime, or exposed that he had already passed it, and Aerts then went on to K-1 himself, where he would rule.

But still, too bad K-1 wasn't around during Lobman's prime.

It's ironic that his batterings of two MMA fighters, Ken and Bas - the two greatest Pancrase fighters ever - might be the ones that end up being Lobman's two most famous "name" wins, or the ones he might get the most credit or notoriety for from most fightsport fans, even though they were certainly not even arguably the best or most accomplished kickboxers he ever faced.

Lobman himself probably would not have considered them at the time, and in his world, to be even close to as significant and defining as NHB/shootfighting fans would.
4/11/12 5:55 AM
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whistleblower
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onepunchJD - Pro Ice is the MVP of the UG IMO.

Seriously one of the best posters here by a mile. Even without all the cool videos.. his knowledge and understanding of MMA history, and combat sports in general, is unquestionable. The videos are a bonus.

I would love to take a week vacation just to catch up on all his threads.

This all day.

Pro Ice consistently mines and brings us the gold.

Thanks PI. Not just for this thread, but all that you repeatedly contribute. (And well-put as usual, JD.)
4/11/12 1:56 PM
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Pro Ice
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 You're welcome guys and thanks for the kind words

I love all combat sports mma is my first love and the greatest sport on the planet and I love sharing it with people
4/11/12 2:13 PM
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Pro Ice
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 @ onepunch

You're totally right about Shamrock thinking he could beat anybody and like you said rightfully so

In all fairness to Shamrock he might''ve known he was in a little over his head in a kickboxing match against a very accomplished kickboxer but of course he wouldn't have said that before the fight, so Colosimo's quote could very well be true

My opionion on this is Shamrock thought he was gonna be facing an old out of shape Lobman (and would be able to KO him) instead he got a got a motivated in shape one

Either way Shamrock did show a lot of heart 
4/11/12 5:00 PM
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tat2tillidie
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Pro Ice -  You're welcome guys 

@tat2tilldie You're welcome man a good poster is a good poster, join date irrelevent
Thanks man, I always click on your threads cause I know there gonna be great ... Phone Post
4/11/12 9:41 PM
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D241
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 Good write up WB. Thank you.

It's very rare for someone to be more knowledgeable and have been a fan longer than I was. 
I can honestly say I never got much into pancrase. Pretty much UFC, then some Rings/Pride.

It was interesting to read WB's breakdown of how high Ken was back then. It justifies Ken's longtime fans that until this week, I could never understand why his longtime fans were so loyal to him.

Because of this thread, I have a much better understanding.

Threads should have ratings where 10's are very rare, and I would rate this one a 10.

No, wait a minute...


Ok, yeah, a 10
4/11/12 11:17 PM
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onepunchJD
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Pro Ice -  @ onepunch

You're totally right about Shamrock thinking he could beat anybody and like you said rightfully so

In all fairness to Shamrock he might''ve known he was in a little over his head in a kickboxing match against a very accomplished kickboxer but of course he wouldn't have said that before the fight, so Colosimo's quote could very well be true

My opionion on this is Shamrock thought he was gonna be facing an old out of shape Lobman (and would be able to KO him) instead he got a got a motivated in shape one

Either way Shamrock did show a lot of heart 


Yeah..

Ken knew damn well he was WAY out of shape going into the Fujita fight, (he has admitted this).. he just assumed he would knock him out. Some with Tito.. Ken said he really thought he could beat Tito with one leg. Well, he almost dropped Tito anyways, with pretty much the only punch he landed. :)

and to D241 -

Ken's stubborness at times has caused him to be his own worst enemy. It's easy to look at this, and criticize him. Granted.. he does deserve some of the criticism. But without the stubborn streak that would ultimately be his downfall as a fighter.. Ken may have never been motivated to become a fighter in the first place. Different people feed off of different types of energy.

Ken is one of the most interesting characters in MMA history, IMO. The dude really is kind of an enigma. There are just so many occasions where we can say, "well, Ken lost, BUT.." Ken either looked good and beat himself, or Ken was stubborn about last minuite rule changes, or Ken lost, BUT showed a ton of heart being past his prime. Etc, etc.

Some people have a low tolerance for such a complicated character. Over the years, I have seen people just get tired of TRYING so hard to be Ken Shamrock fans. LOL

Personally, I gravitate more toward a fighter like Ken, because I think I understand his struggle on some level. Life is a complicated thing. Ken really kind of stumbled into the whole "MMA thing by accident because of his career in pro wrestling. When you consider that Ken broke his neck in highschool, and was told to avoid contact sports.. you can see Ken as kind of this stubborn underdog. Well, this guy also happend to become one of the most influential pioneers of the sport that changed my life.

The thing is, Ken really was one of the most dangerous men on the planet at one time. Some of the dissapointments in his career, and especially his losses in the later years.. tend to overshadow his considerable acomplishments and abilities as MMA was just getting started.

This is why some of us old school fans are quick to come to his defense. It's not that he is the greatest fighter ever, or some kind of fanboy role model. It's because people really seem to focus on the negative aspects of his career. They forget to give credit where it is due, and Ken deserves a TON of credit.

With all that said.. I have seen a lot more love for Ken here lately. This thread is a good example.
6/2/12 6:33 AM
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Megatherium
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One more time
6/2/12 9:40 AM
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Kneeblock
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 I disagree that the Lobman fight showed us anything about Ken, because no one in the west saw it. It was never part of any of the US televised Pancrase shows and didn't get any coverage at the time. Suzuki vs. Smith was another fight that was a complete shock when highlights of it appeared later on because no one had seen or heard of it and most were completely befuddled by the fact that Minoru had laced up in the first place.

The only market that would've had any knowledge of the Ken/Lobman or Suzuki/Smith fights at the time they happened would've been people living in Asia, who by then would've also already seen Ken's losses to Royce, Minoru and Masa. 

The other market would've been the tape-trader scene, but trading of Pancrase tapes didn't really begin in earnest until around '95-'96 when they began to flood the market.  There may have been a small group of devotees to Puroresu who had gotten into Pancrase through the trading scene a bit earlier than that, but I don't think that represents any appreciable group whose alteration of perception about Ken is a bellewether for where he stood as a fighter.

That relegates this fight, like Suzuki vs. Smith or the BJJ matches between Yuki Nakai and Leo Vieira or Shaolin that took place during JVT to obscurity and pretty much irrelevance in what they meant at that time. Looking back in hindsight, however, it is an interesting statement about both Ken's toughness and his vulnerabilities.
6/2/12 12:08 PM
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AristidesBrito
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For later, a lot of quality posts on this thread, a reminder of how the UG used to be Phone Post
6/15/12 11:01 PM
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onepunchJD
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TTT

Good thread.
6/29/13 5:27 PM
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Pro Ice
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 TTT


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