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UnderGround Forums >> AMATEUR MMA: Why It Matters. Pro/Cons. Debate.


5/9/12 4:34 PM
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theringmaster
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In this first MMA:ITC Unscripted... Cyrus, Casey, and ISKA Regional Supervisor Todd Murray discuss the 53-year old man that fought at a recent event. Also, a full discussion on amateur MMA as a whole. Why it is more prominent than the pro bouts, and why it has a place. What's YOUR take?
5/9/12 4:59 PM
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theringmaster
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 For iPhone Users...

COME ON PEOPLE! Talk about this. I want to know the UG's view on AMMY MMA.
5/9/12 5:02 PM
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crowbar
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 Good for promoters & so-so for fighters.
5/9/12 5:06 PM
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I<3BigfishBass!
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It is very important for the sport to have ammy fights.

That being said the rules need to be more alike from state to state. I don't like the rules that do not allow strikes to the head on the ground. I think that is bad for the sport and brings more of the untrained guys out wanting to fight.

Bloodwork should also be required every time. Phone Post
5/9/12 5:12 PM
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theringmaster
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 I mean every major pro sport has an amateur circuit. Football and baseball make mega money off of college athletes. Could you imagine if they eliminated college football or basketball? They've even implemented rules to keep them in college 1 or 2 years.

I think the same should apply to MMA. Just training and setting them loose as pro fighters is irresponsible.
5/9/12 5:30 PM
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SC MMA MD
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I<3BigfishBass! - It is very important for the sport to have ammy fights.

That being said the rules need to be more alike from state to state. I don't like the rules that do not allow strikes to the head on the ground. I think that is bad for the sport and brings more of the untrained guys out wanting to fight.

Bloodwork should also be required every time. Phone Post
Agree. Blood work is required here in SC, and should be everywhere. Strikes on the ground are allowed as in the unifed rules, except no elbows to the head for ammys. I would like to see unified ammy rules adapted so that all states have the same rules. That could help make ammy MMA a better stepping stone to pro Phone Post
5/9/12 5:39 PM
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patlank
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most is just low budget crap..
5/9/12 6:00 PM
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theringmaster
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patlank - most is just low budget crap..

 Yeah. Thanks for that. I've seen some really elaborate amateur shows. Great production, too. I don't think that's the issue.
5/9/12 6:23 PM
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oxvaletudo
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I<3BigfishBass! - It is very important for the sport to have ammy fights.

That being said the rules need to be more alike from state to state. I don't like the rules that do not allow strikes to the head on the ground. I think that is bad for the sport and brings more of the untrained guys out wanting to fight.

Bloodwork should also be required every time. Phone Post

Agreed!.. Especially in regards to bloodwork. We have fighters that are tested in TN to fight one month, then travel to compete in another state where bloodwork isn't required the very next month.

So essentially the fighter could return home having contracted hep b & c or HIV from an untested fighter, yet still be cleared on paper.

Not a good situation.
5/9/12 6:38 PM
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TheRealJoker
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Sub Phone Post
5/9/12 7:40 PM
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theringmaster
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I think just the money situation is a big part of it. Before I got into the business as an announcer, I never knew the excess costs for a pro show. It's pretty high. Phone Post
5/10/12 1:36 AM
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oxvaletudo
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TTT Phone Post
5/10/12 10:05 AM
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I<3BigfishBass!
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It is expensive to promote local shows with Pros on the card. Also, in Florida I believe it's either all pro or all ammy. With different sanctioning bodies operating inside the state. I'm usually for less regulation, but in regards to ammy fighters there should me more. Phone Post
5/10/12 10:06 AM
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I<3BigfishBass!
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oxvaletudo -
I<3BigfishBass! - It is very important for the sport to have ammy fights.

That being said the rules need to be more alike from state to state. I don't like the rules that do not allow strikes to the head on the ground. I think that is bad for the sport and brings more of the untrained guys out wanting to fight.

Bloodwork should also be required every time. Phone Post

Agreed!.. Especially in regards to bloodwork. We have fighters that are tested in TN to fight one month, then travel to compete in another state where bloodwork isn't required the very next month.

So essentially the fighter could return home having contracted hep b & c or HIV from an untested fighter, yet still be cleared on paper.

Not a good situation.
Yeah that's scary right? It could be another 6 months before the fighter is tested again. Phone Post
5/10/12 10:25 AM
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Jimenez
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The way i see it is NJ/CT/PA ammy rules blow , coming from muay thai , i cant headkick , GnP to the face or knee the face. Restricts me from about 45% of my strikes . Also not allowing heelhooks and other leg submissions restrict alot of people aswel , The shinguards are a complete waste of time, the 2 step and drop is also dumb. BUT on the flip ammy is meant to test the waters to see if u wanna go pro . over protecting the fighters with silly rules that dont translate to pro wont help the fighters . I know a few guys who had a beautiful ammy career but now have 1-3 record as a pro . Until the tristate area changes their rules i refuse to fight in NJ/CT/PA . Phone Post
5/10/12 11:00 AM
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theringmaster
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There really needs to be unified rules in that aspect. ISKA has a pretty good set of rules.

At the same point, unless a fighter has a good coach... Many arent prepared for the elbows on the ground, etc when they go pro. Phone Post
5/10/12 11:06 AM
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Jimenez
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theringmaster - There really needs to be unified rules in that aspect. ISKA has a pretty good set of rules.

At the same point, unless a fighter has a good coach... Many arent prepared for the elbows on the ground, etc when they go pro. Phone Post
If you have a bad coach you arent prepared for anything , and i agree with the rules . No elbows or knee in ammy is fine i can understand that but no GnP to the face ?!? Standing 8 counts !? No headkicks .. Phone Post
5/10/12 11:12 AM
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I<3BigfishBass!
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Jimenez -
theringmaster - There really needs to be unified rules in that aspect. ISKA has a pretty good set of rules.

At the same point, unless a fighter has a good coach... Many arent prepared for the elbows on the ground, etc when they go pro. Phone Post
If you have a bad coach you arent prepared for anything , and i agree with the rules . No elbows or knee in ammy is fine i can understand that but no GnP to the face ?!? Standing 8 counts !? No headkicks .. Phone Post
Agreed Phone Post
5/10/12 11:27 AM
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Ray Elbe
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crowbar -  Good for promoters & so-so for fighters.
My opinion on "Ammy"--->if your not being paid...everyone in the crowd should be able to tell its ammy just by looking at the bout.

Seen lots of ammy's fight with the same rules as pro's--or simple modifications like "no elbows or knees to the head"--that's a simple case of fighters being taken advantage of.

I'm a fan of shinpads and shooto gloves for ammy...

But no punches to the head--would be another "example" of modified rules that would justify no pay-- Phone Post
5/10/12 12:24 PM
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Voodoo
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I agree there should be some kind of distinction between pros and ammys, but I also think the rules should be as close to the Unified rules as possible. I have no problem with bigger gloves, or even manditory rashguards like CAMO does for amatuer fighters, but I feel that the bottom line is that pro or amateur, they are competing in MMA and the Unified Rules define the sport.
5/10/12 12:34 PM
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mikerobmma
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Needed for ammys to get experience. Too bad promoters use them as a meal ticket and constantly fuck them over. I can't count how many times a promoter tried to convince me to not go pro. It was like all they wanted to do was make sure that they could keep one more skilled amateur fighting for free. So glad I finally got some pro fights in the bag. At least now I'm getting something back for all the money that goes into it. Add up the costs for medicals, registrations, and travel, that shit stacks up quick for an amateur. Phone Post
5/10/12 12:46 PM
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jarroyo
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I've had 3 ammy fights and am glad that I didn't choose to go pro right away. All three have been under iska I believe. The only real restriction is no elbows to the face. I decided to fight as a distracted 18 year old kid. It's been over a year since my last fight. Life gets in the way, but being an amateur gives me room to fight when I'm ready. When I do decide to go pro, I'll take a positive ammy experience with me. Phone Post
5/10/12 12:47 PM
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Jimenez
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Ray Elbe -
crowbar -  Good for promoters & so-so for fighters.
My opinion on "Ammy"--->if your not being paid...everyone in the crowd should be able to tell its ammy just by looking at the bout.

Seen lots of ammy's fight with the same rules as pro's--or simple modifications like "no elbows or knees to the head"--that's a simple case of fighters being taken advantage of.

I'm a fan of shinpads and shooto gloves for ammy...

But no punches to the head--would be another "example" of modified rules that would justify no pay-- Phone Post
Im gonna respectfully disagree with you mr.Elbe

There should be a difference yes but Ammy rules dont help an ammy fighter who wants to go pro , like the no punches and shinguards . Its babying the fighter and thats bad imo

The shooto gloves i can deal but even then it favors the striker , hard to do kimura, figure-4 lock or anytype of submission . And with shinguard it makes it hard to escape anytype of anklelock and with kicks yes it hurts but theres still that level of protection were its bearable .

Idk honestly all ammy rules should be the same , no shinguards, GnP allowed , headkicks . No elbows and knees is fine .
If im breaking my ass everyday to fight i should be allowed to do such . Just how i feel Phone Post
5/10/12 1:05 PM
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Voodoo
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I agree with Jimenez.
5/10/12 1:35 PM
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mikerobmma
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Not having a noticeable difference is a way for promoters to have amateur-only shows, not pay pros, and the casual fans that make up 80-90% of your ticket sales don't know the difference. Bottom line it makes it pointless to have pros if there will be no ticket sale difference. Trust me. Phone Post

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