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Judo/Sambo UnderGround >> Integrate Wrestling and Judo


5/17/12 10:36 PM
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inoshishi07
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My son has been doing Judo on and off for about 4 years. He took a break, but has started training a couple of day a week again. His first love is wrestling. They've changed the rules to make it harder for wrestlers. Not exactly sure, but you can't just go for a double leg anymore, but you can attack the legs as a second move. Any suggestions for set-up to attack legs? Has anyone made a good instructional video about combining judo and wrestling? Thanks.
5/17/12 11:13 PM
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JoshuaResnick
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From a technical level, American folkstyle is hard to integrate into Judo... it is vastly different as a push-push sport opposed to Judo being a push-pull... the other difficulty comes from having to throw an opponent to his back first and foremost... but..

in no way does that mean there are not a ton of commonalitles. almost every single good male judoka in the USA was a pretty damn good wrestler too. thus, thee must be a lot that is impactful in both.

first and foremost the tanacity of US folkstyle wrestling, IMHO, is huge.

when it comes to technique, with the modern rules, you simply need to attack the legs with your legs first. that's all.. not too hard to make a VALID attempt at a "real" throw and then train yourself to follow up with a double-leg or knee/ankle pick (the single leg is not a good choice as it has a +90% rate of uke falling to his face).... it is very similar to a high-croth into a finsihing technique... if the initial shot is no good, then the rest is craptastic too.

the rules today in Judo are about as silly as the no slamming rule in folkstyle.
5/18/12 12:55 AM
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inoshishi07
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Great response - thanks! The stance is quite different in the two sports isn't it. Strong base vs being light on the feet. And I totally agree about the tenacity of folkstyle wrestling. That being said, I have seen the power of judo used in wrestling and have tremendous respect for it.

So if I get what you're saying, if you go for O-soto Gari, but miss the sweep, you could drop down to the legs. This is probably a bad example, but my judo knowledge is very limited. I think you can also do an inside trip if you're going forward.

We hope to go to some judo tournaments this summer and would like to leverage (no pun intended) his wrestling. He will be going up against kids with lots more judo experience.
5/18/12 7:17 AM
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judoblackbelt
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They changed the rules to differentiate it more from wrestling as an Olympic sport. You can attack the legs as a second attack attempt to your original attack. You can counter an attack by the opponent with a leg grab. You can grab the legs if the opponent does same side gripping for lapel/sleeve. DO not block the hip with your hand when the opponent attacks or this will get you DQ'd for the match. What I see at local judo tournaments by those with wrestling backgrounds is they are doing more counter throws backwards by blocking the opponents attack with their hips, grabbing them around the waist and taking them down backwards. I would first figure out what inital attacks he is good at and then add a leg grab follow up. But why restict him to leg grab second attacks only? Let his judo develope.
5/18/12 11:35 AM
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inoshishi07
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judoblackbelt - They changed the rules to differentiate it more from wrestling as an Olympic sport. You can attack the legs as a second attack attempt to your original attack. You can counter an attack by the opponent with a leg grab. You can grab the legs if the opponent does same side gripping for lapel/sleeve. DO not block the hip with your hand when the opponent attacks or this will get you DQ'd for the match. What I see at local judo tournaments by those with wrestling backgrounds is they are doing more counter throws backwards by blocking the opponents attack with their hips, grabbing them around the waist and taking them down backwards. I would first figure out what inital attacks he is good at and then add a leg grab follow up. But why restict him to leg grab second attacks only? Let his judo develope.


Great info! Didn't know about the same side gripping or the DQ if you block the hip. Will have him discuss with his sensei today. For sure I want his judo to develop. Just looking for some short term competitive advantages. Thanks for your help.
5/21/12 1:36 AM
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JoshuaResnick
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Why in the world would you enter a child, or even an adult, into a tournament in one grappling style and want to "leverage" anything as a beginner?

is winning as a beginner that important to you? why not worry less about your son winning and losing and worry more on if he is having a good time and on his skill development.

you do not win anything that is actually worthwhile when you are new. that is why in Judo we don't have novice national championships like in BJJ and TKD, etc...

you compete for fun and work on development until you are ready to go for real.. and, from the sound of it, your son is nowhere near ready.
5/21/12 5:35 PM
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nowaydo
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Good perspective.
5/23/12 4:49 PM
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judom
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at this age...I'd say the best thing is to just attack...attack as much as you can...attack every few seconds...get grips and attack...even if you get thrown...winning is completely secondary, learning to attack is critical
5/26/12 9:53 PM
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inoshishi07
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JoshuaResnick - Why in the world would you enter a child, or even an adult, into a tournament in one grappling style and want to "leverage" anything as a beginner?

is winning as a beginner that important to you? why not worry less about your son winning and losing and worry more on if he is having a good time and on his skill development.

you do not win anything that is actually worthwhile when you are new. that is why in Judo we don't have novice national championships like in BJJ and TKD, etc...

you compete for fun and work on development until you are ready to go for real.. and, from the sound of it, your son is nowhere near ready.


You've made some incorrect assumptions. He's extremely competitive and hates to lose. It's important to him and as his father I'm there to support him.

Next, he's not a beginner. He's been training in martial art since age five. He's been wrestling for five years and has done judo on and off since 2007. At 14 he's not a child.

If he's competing against kids who have been working judo as hard as he's been focused on wrestling, why not use his existing skill set?

Finally, wanting to win, having fun and developing skills are not mutually exclusive.
5/26/12 10:23 PM
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judoblackbelt
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Please let us know how he does in judo tournaments. It is always good to hear feedback after our recommendations.

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