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Judo/Sambo UnderGround >> Judo and BJJ


5/18/12 5:09 PM
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Spartan79
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Saw tis on the BJJ forum and thought some of you may be interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dt-HYmMLOU Phone Post
5/21/12 5:36 PM
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nowaydo
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Love it!
5/22/12 6:46 AM
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judoblackbelt
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Really cool to hear Swain say to x-train in BJJ for judo. And he says the Brazilian National judo team is on par with the Japanese and should win 3-4 medals at this summer Olympics.
5/23/12 1:08 PM
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Truemanc3
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The BJJ school of the future will embrace both sports and visa versa.

It will be great when you have both to a high level at every BJJ and Judo school.

Its started...
5/23/12 4:38 PM
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judom
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thing is...under current rules, BJJ won't help you much to win in Judo (at a high level), and you are better off spending your time doing Judo.

There are plenty of ground specialists in Judo, they just don't win much in competitions. :)

Also, cross-training is just a fashionable term...in eastern europe people have been training side by side for 30 years...judo, wrestling, sambo, greco, folkstyle's, etc...nothing new...and still if you want top Judo, do Judo, forget the rest.
5/24/12 8:07 PM
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JoshuaResnick
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interestingly... yesterday at the 8pm practice at Tenri Dojo in LA a rather well known bjj guy named Ruberio came by to randori... I didnt know who he was until much later.. His judo looked okay, but i was watching and thought-- "no, im staying away from what looks like another adult green belt that i dont know.." lol.

maybe ill go with him next time. lol.
5/26/12 3:22 PM
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Spartan79
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So what you got against adult green belts josh? ! Lol Phone Post
5/26/12 3:25 PM
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Spartan79
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judom - thing is...under current rules, BJJ won't help you much to win in Judo (at a high level), and you are better off spending your time doing Judo.

There are plenty of ground specialists in Judo, they just don't win much in competitions. :)

Also, cross-training is just a fashionable term...in eastern europe people have been training side by side for 30 years...judo, wrestling, sambo, greco, folkstyle's, etc...nothing new...and still if you want top Judo, do Judo, forget the rest.
Point is the Top people aren't just doing Judo they are cross training in wrestling, Bjj Sombo any art that will help improve their game . Phone Post
5/26/12 3:26 PM
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Spartan79
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Sambo I meant before I get shot down lol! Phone Post
5/26/12 4:49 PM
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judom
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Edited: 05/26/12 4:52 PM
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Spartan79,

Its not true. Top people are not cross training. Top Judo guys train Judo and only Judo.

Even in the case of Sambo, when there is a Sambo comp, they just do a 2-week training camp for Sambo to get used to the rules and then do the competition. They don't do it to help their Judo, they do it to get paid by the government. That is what happens in reality.

Look, come to some of the top Judo places in Europe and I guarantee you, you will not need to train anything else. Pick any area of Judo you want (pick-ups, ground work, grips, etc) and there will be someone better than you, period. Even Olympic Gold medalists, there are people who are better than them in many areas, technically.

Really, you don't need anything else, and for top Judo, it won't help you at all, may even damage you.

My advice to most people is: just save your money and train Judo seriously. Judo itself is so rich, that most people I know have not mastered even 5% of it: why in the world would you need other stuff  ?
5/26/12 10:40 PM
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judoblackbelt
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Ready all the posts I think Judom is more closer to the truth for world class judokas. I only know of one exception and that is Flavio Canto whose ground game is so superior to the rest of the field combined with this stand up attacks that are not as effective as his ground game. I see him doing yuko tomenage and then arm bar attempt. In the US Michael Eldred is #1 in pure ground skill ippon wins.nThe top judokas are very good at transition to the ground attack immediately after a throw. No guard play involved. And at one of our local tournaments in Michigan about 4-5 years ago Xande Riberio came and fought all of our local blackbelts and beat them all from standing. He was wearing a brown belt. I took his weight and knew who he was. He was preparing for the BJJ World Championships in Europe he said. Trying to get some stand-up in. He definetly had very good stand-up skills against our local talent. He didn't use any ground skills.
5/27/12 9:27 AM
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Truemanc3
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I am a bjj BB and I love Judo, that is where I started.I just did my first Sambo competition so I can improve in other areas.
I am more interested in trying different grappling styles these days.
Imo if you want to be the best Judo guy, then just train Judo.
If you want to be an all around better grappler try as many grappling arts as you can.
All grappling arts have stronger and weaker areas. Neither is better or worse than another. the art is defined by the rules, and you train within those rules.
I am loving Sambo training right now, I am doing alot of different grip stratergies, leglocks and transitions that I would not ordanarily do.
5/27/12 1:33 PM
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judom
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I mostly agree with Truemanc3.

btw, IMO the most effective gi' throwing style is Georgia's Chidaoba. Almost all successful moves in Sambo are borrowed from there.

In fact, in former USSR it was widely considered overall the best grappling style (sans ground work) and ideal for making freestyle wrestling champions.

Unfortunately, its not popular outside of Georgia.
5/28/12 11:17 AM
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nowaydo
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0-juAAcTqw&feature=related

Short clip of Georgian Folk Wrestling "Chidaoba" On CNN. they talk about its effectiveness for Judo.
5/30/12 6:03 AM
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Spartan79
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judom - Spartan79,

Its not true. Top people are not cross training. Top Judo guys train Judo and only Judo.

Even in the case of Sambo, when there is a Sambo comp, they just do a 2-week training camp for Sambo to get used to the rules and then do the competition. They don't do it to help their Judo, they do it to get paid by the government. That is what happens in reality.

Look, come to some of the top Judo places in Europe and I guarantee you, you will not need to train anything else. Pick any area of Judo you want (pick-ups, ground work, grips, etc) and there will be someone better than you, period. Even Olympic Gold medalists, there are people who are better than them in many areas, technically.

Really, you don't need anything else, and for top Judo, it won't help you at all, may even damage you.

My advice to most people is: just save your money and train Judo seriously. Judo itself is so rich, that most people I know have not mastered even 5% of it: why in the world would you need other stuff  ?
camarillo brothers, rhadi fergerson, hector Lombard, Ray Stevens London , all have and speak of the bonus of cross training. That's just of the top of my head but many of our top judoka here in the uk are also starting to cross train BJJ. The budokwai judo club in London also has many Judoka cross training in BJJ . So don't think I'm wrong. Phone Post
5/30/12 6:05 AM
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Spartan79
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Don't get me wrong I think judo is the more complete grappling art but adding to it only improves you as a fighter. Phone Post
5/30/12 5:50 PM
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judom
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Spartan79,

I agree that knowing more techniques is better, if you had infinite time. But time is finite and it is better spent in the sport of your choice.

For competitive Judo you sure as hell don't need BJJ. Now as a hobby, once retired, sure, it is a low impact way of learning something, not unlike wrestling or sambo or other wrestling styles.

As far as UK team members doing BJJ, I am curious to see the results. Let me put it that way, I don't see UZB team doing BJJ in the near future and they crush the hell out of people :)
5/31/12 2:39 PM
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Spartan79
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http://www.grapplearts.com/judo/ Phone Post
5/31/12 7:31 PM
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JoshuaResnick
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the question is two fold... one, can you combine the two? sure. question two, do you need to? absolutely not.

can doing bjj help your JUDO? that depends on how you learn it and use it. if you are trying to be the best judo player in the world and you want to improve you abilities in newaza and can find a bjj club with world level instruction that understand the mentality of your training habits... well, okay...

6/4/12 10:34 PM
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Mit
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Spartan79 -
judom - Spartan79,

Its not true. Top people are not cross training. Top Judo guys train Judo and only Judo.

Even in the case of Sambo, when there is a Sambo comp, they just do a 2-week training camp for Sambo to get used to the rules and then do the competition. They don't do it to help their Judo, they do it to get paid by the government. That is what happens in reality.

Look, come to some of the top Judo places in Europe and I guarantee you, you will not need to train anything else. Pick any area of Judo you want (pick-ups, ground work, grips, etc) and there will be someone better than you, period. Even Olympic Gold medalists, there are people who are better than them in many areas, technically.

Really, you don't need anything else, and for top Judo, it won't help you at all, may even damage you.

My advice to most people is: just save your money and train Judo seriously. Judo itself is so rich, that most people I know have not mastered even 5% of it: why in the world would you need other stuff  ?
camarillo brothers, rhadi fergerson, hector Lombard, Ray Stevens London , all have and speak of the bonus of cross training. That's just of the top of my head but many of our top judoka here in the uk are also starting to cross train BJJ. The budokwai judo club in London also has many Judoka cross training in BJJ . So don't think I'm wrong. Phone Post
I agree. Don't the top judo in the former soviet union train everything? Phone Post
6/4/12 10:35 PM
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Mit
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Really I think it may just boil down to mat time. Phone Post
6/6/12 3:51 PM
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judom
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Edited: 06/06/12 3:53 PM
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look...the problem is...most people have really not experience proper Judo...they are pretty clueless about it...and i mean proper training in Judo under top coaches with very good sparring partners.

You don't need BJJ for Judo at all.

I have no idea how anyone who seriously competes in Judo can do BJJ seriously too. The competition calendar at least in Europe is totally LOADED, the trainings are intense and long...forget training anything else.

To give you comparison, my hardest BJJ training in the U.S. in a top BJJ academy is more like a warm-up in a competitive Judo club in Europe. The overall training is far less intense, far easier and the training partners are not of the same quality. I can't imagine training this instead of high quality Judo.

Now if you retire and can't take the pounding of Judo anymore...or need a mental break...or just want some variety to relax...then you can try hobbies such as BJJ...or wrestling or gymnastics or what not.

At any rate, I would love to see those BJJ cross-trained Judo guys that are having true international success on the Olympic A-level Judo scene. :)  

Also, those guys who give the advice to cross-train, none of them cross-trained during their competitive careers.

And even Flavio Canto...who people bring up...he did not win that many matches in ground work at all, I'd say not more than 10%, probably less.
6/6/12 6:30 PM
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m.g
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judom,

Why confine either Judo or Bjj to competition?

It seems to me your defining participation in Judo strictly in terms of competition.

First off, how many people who practice Judo do so with the intent of competing internationally? Heck, even among Judoka who play Judo purely for competition I seriously doubt most of them even compete at international Olympic A- level anyway so for them to cross train in Bjj for that reason would be totally pointless.

Secondly, who says you have to cross-train in any sport, let alone Bjj, in order to further your competitve career in your main sport. That may not even be the point of cross training.

Nobuyuki Sato, the coach of Judo great Yaushiro Yamashita, would sometimes have his athletes freestyle wrestle or play sumo in their practice for no other reaqson than to do something different.
6/6/12 6:30 PM
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m.g
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Edited: 06/06/12 6:30 PM
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double post
6/8/12 8:39 PM
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judom
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Edited: 06/08/12 8:39 PM
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m.g.,

I just want to make sure people are not confused by the cross-training thing.

Look, there are 3 cases:

1. If you are a competitive Judo player, forget BJJ or anything else (except once in a blue moon for variety).

2. If you are not a competitive player but are serious about Judo, then chances are you are an amateur and you only have few hours a week anyway. So go and study Judo properly. Judo is so incredibly rich, that if you need anything else to "supplement" your Judo it means your club sucks.

3. And if you are not serious about Judo...then it doesn't matter what you do anyway: you may as well cross-train in badminton :)

Cross-training is a good idea, but cross-training is useless if you do not have a very serious base. And to build a base, you need ~10-12 years in a sport. 

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