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Health & Medical UnderGround >> To supplement Protein or to not supplement Protein


6/6/12 6:24 PM
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The National
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Quick question for someone who knows more than me on gaining muscle.

1. Is a Protein supplement actually effective/needed for muscle gains?

2. Which would be better Whey or Hemp protein?

Help a noob!
6/7/12 5:15 PM
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The National
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Bump
6/8/12 12:01 AM
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BALLSDEEP
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Yes. And whey all/any day (especially over hemp). Nothing's gonna beat getting your protein from natural sources (chicken, fish, eggs, etc.) but it's hard to do (and costly) especially if your trying to gain. Shoot for 2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight (no less than 1.5g). I usually only take a shake immediately after my workout, then let food make up the rest of my intake if I can (food should make up for at LEAST half of your daily protein intake).
6/8/12 8:40 AM
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The National
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Thanks Mr. BALLSDEEP.
6/10/12 6:38 AM
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The National
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Do all protein supplements contain Arginine? Or can you purchase some that would not Arginine in them?
6/11/12 5:08 AM
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BALLSDEEP
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I don't know, but I'd say they vary. Why do you not want arginine?
6/11/12 6:22 AM
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The National
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BALLSDEEP - I don't know, but I'd say they vary. Why do you not want arginine?


More Arginine in your system increases the likeleyhood of cold sores. I can't roll if I get a cold sore - my BJJ coach is really strict about that - and rightly so.
6/11/12 11:32 AM
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turducken
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arginine is just an amino acid. it is naturally occurring in basically every protein source imaginable including whey. if you eat chicken you are getting arginine. its not possible to buy whey without arginine.

but the amount you get from whey is not like taking an arginine supplement and intentionally megadosing it...
6/12/12 4:24 AM
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BALLSDEEP
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^^. Plus if you're getting cold sores, you might want to point the blame in another direction. Not only have I never heard anything like that before, I take enough arginine to kill a baby elephant...and not a single cold sore. Ever.
6/13/12 4:57 PM
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The National
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Well, what could it be then???

1. I eat healthy daily
2. I work out hard daily.
3. I kiss hookers on the pussy daily.

I am stumped??
6/15/12 1:22 PM
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Grandmaster Wang
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Cold sore virus (herpes simplex) is ...well ..a virus. If you get it then you never get rid of it but cold sores only become active if your immune system is low through stress etc.

Google Angular cheilitis...similar to cold sores but caused by too much vitamin A/ fish oils.
6/22/12 6:42 AM
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WidespreadPanic
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Edited: 06/22/12 6:42 AM
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OK, the recommendation to get 2gm/lb of protein is probably overkill unless you're training at a very high level and maybe taking 'roids.

You should aim to get between 0.8 and 1.5gm/lb of body weigh of protein on MOST days. Track your gains. 

Also, protein needs to have pretty good bioavailability, and you can't eat it all at once. What you really want is to have protein in the bloodstream when the insulin is up and your muscles are in anabolic state.

Muscles build up and tear down. You probably do better with spreading the protein into smaller portions, and again, not need to get 2gm/lb, 7 days a week.

For MOST people, the key is having ANY idea what amount of micronutrients they're getting over the period of a day to a week to two weeks. AND, it's better to cycle your training and your diet. Remember when you train you're breaking down muscles and if you're dieting hard your catabolizing muscle and other body materials. Likewise, when you rest and sleep (hGH goes up) you are tending toward building (it's a constant cycling).

So try and figure out how much fat, how many carbs (and when - best within 1 hr pre or post hard training), and track protein. If you're not getting enough, then supplement with some mixed protein powders. Egg/milk and whey are good enough. Look at the labels. Don't worry too much about being lower on protein some days. It's hard to get that much on an 1800-2000 calorie diet.

It also depends on your age, amt of training, type of training, number of training hours/days per week. If you track your gains vs the protein intake you can figure it out yourself over the course of a few months.

HTH

 
6/22/12 3:47 PM
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The National
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Holy Shit - that there's a post - Thanks Man.

When you say "Track your gains", do you mean in size or in how much weight that you can lift?
6/22/12 4:34 PM
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WidespreadPanic
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I use fitday.com and track a number of things. I also use a spreadsheet (Excel) and track my progress

Fitday, professional online version allows custom tracking.

So by 'tracking your gains', I use a color coded box, or a line graph or even a comments part "Felt good today did route 30 seconds faster, negative split'.

The idea is that you want to learn:
1. That anything you do in prep and other aspects typically shows up three weeks later in your workout if you are consistent (i.e. 3-5 days a week working out, no missed workouts).
2. When your peaks come. I have mini-peaks, and maximum peaks and they often come unexpectedly. I learned that I have about 4 maxi peaks per year where I seem to do my workout almost twice as strong and fast as typically.
3. How to taper. If you're doing jogging, and you want to just run a 10K race, you will do your normal workout, then about a week before the event you cut your intensity or duration about 10-20% and maybe have a complete rest day on thursday then a light workout on friday, then the Fun run is on Saturday and you go out and discover you feel super good and get a good time. Now for other events, swimming, triathlons, cycling, the taper time and cutback is different. I might do super hard workouts to deplete in week 1 and 2, then taper week 3, just going for active recovery and light spinning and work on bike handling, then week 4 I might rest up for one or even two days, doing something else (like swimming to relax) then on the event day I might not feel that great but the next Monday I might have a super-peak, then I realize from my tracking I missed my peak by two days, so next time I adjust and have a very hard workout two days prior, then rest and my body sensing I'm upping the load, supercompensates and I have a great event.

By trial and error you learn how to taper, how to time your peaks, and you can look back at your graphs and color-coded stuff or your fitday entries and see from a glance. Soon you have an innate feeling of how to time your training, when to go hard, when to do active recovery. And if you discover you added a new supplement or got extra good protein intake in week 2, then you can surmise that it helped you in week 4, and try to do that more purposely next time.

The other key thing is that you need to have periodic events, fun runs, group rides, something to use as a goal that will help you direct your efforts. You can't just lift or ride or swim 12 months of the year with no events to test you, you get stale. So you try to use the concepts of seasons. In the late winter to early spring I know I'm building for an event in early July, and it keeps me focused, then I use the tapering and peaking regime I've figured out to ride my best race or ride. It keeps you directed and gives you things to work toward. HOW you track is up to you. I found that using a computer or online tracking and diet site is best because after years of using paper notebooks you end up losing them or not being able to see the BIG picture. But an Excel graph of your timed rides or runs gives you an excellent picture that is meaningful at a glance.

HTH

9/24/12 5:46 PM
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renatolaranjabjj
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so much bro science in here. you dont need more than 1 g of protein a day. Whey has a far superior biological value (BV) to hemp. hemp is also expensive. You arent building muscle with any protein, you just help repair your muscles. problem is unless you eat like a horse or know what you are doing, chances are you arent getting enough protein for the day without a shake. so for example if you are 200 pounds, use something like my fitness pal and track your food for the day, theres a good chance you will get less than 200g of protein per day, for an entire week. if your looking supp that have proven to help long-term muscle gains id recommend creatine or beta alanine and they are cheaper.
9/24/12 11:29 PM
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BALLSDEEP
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^^Most of that was mentioned in the 2nd post...3 months ago. Thanks. Welcome aboard.
9/25/12 1:05 AM
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renatolaranjabjj
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Edited: 09/25/12 1:05 AM
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<blockquote>BALLSDEEP - ^^Most of that was mentioned in the 2nd post...3 months ago. Thanks. Welcome aboard.</blockquote><br /> except you wrote " Nothing's gonna beat getting your protein from natural sources (chicken, fish, eggs, etc.) but it's hard to do (and costly) especially if your trying to gain."<br /><br />makes zero difference where you get it from, and chicken eggs, fish are all inferior to whey for BV. where you got HALF from food also??? bro science. and i doubt all post much, i thought this site had alot more traffic, according to my friend, it seems like you are the only one posting.
9/25/12 1:57 AM
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BALLSDEEP
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You're gonna tell me protein is better in powder form and not in fish, chicken, etc.? I watched that special you're reffering to on msnbc as well. When I want the advice from a guy who can't even perform a deadlift & gets back pains from just laying while someone's in their guard, I'll just start doing pilates and eating just lettuce. Tell your friend think again. If he was a friend at all, he'd send you to MESO,OUTLAW MUSCLE or any BB site for real advice, not an MMA site.
10/21/12 12:14 PM
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turducken
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The National - 
BALLSDEEP - I don't know, but I'd say they vary. Why do you not want arginine?


More Arginine in your system increases the likeleyhood of cold sores. I can't roll if I get a cold sore - my BJJ coach is really strict about that - and rightly so.

the reason arginine makes you more likely to break out with cold sores is that arginine competes with lysine....too much arginine = lysine deficient = cold sores. try taking supplemental l-lysine if you have the herp.
10/24/12 1:13 PM
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billygamble
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ive heard of L-Arginine used for muscle/oxygen when your out of shape and dont want to get so gassed when rolling.
10/24/12 4:35 PM
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ArthurKnoqOut
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.8-1.2 grams per KILOgram is sufficient for maintenance and health therefore you don't need a supplement, especially a waste byproduct like whey.

10/24/12 4:35 PM
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ArthurKnoqOut
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.8-1.2 grams per KILOgram is sufficient for maintenance and health therefore you don't need a supplement, especially a waste byproduct like whey.


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