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MMA Memorabilia UnderGround >> Fake Pride 4 poster


6/12/12 8:59 AM
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ricksongjj
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So did he at least refund your money? I dont get why he wouldnt have at least done that.
6/12/12 9:02 AM
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ricksongjj
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the chip guy - Blush don't forget you ignored my pm's and attempts to resolve our issues. Phone Post


Chip-He's probably talking about me.When I was told not to post items for sale on ebay.I just started deleting messages without even reading them.But there were no "touchy subjects" brought up so maybe he doesnt mean me.
6/12/12 9:10 AM
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ricksongjj
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I hope my Pride 4 is real.
6/12/12 12:59 PM
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bjjdna
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Ruben has legal options in both contract (K) and tort

1) Ruben can sue under K law via rescission and restitution - essentially a court order to undo the deal and re-exchange the fake P4 for the money as if the K never happened. (most likely remedy)

2) Ruben can sue in K to compensate for damages (cover costs + incidentals gas etc). Compensatory damages place the party in substantially as good a position as if the K had been performed, ie, the cost to cover - whatever the costs for Ruben to buy a real P4.

3) Ruben can sue under K in equity under a theory of specific performance which forces completion of the K. Unique items like a P4 make damages at law inadequate so if Ruben really wants the P4, he may be able to get it under specific performance.

4) Ruben can affirm the k and sue under tort law for fraud if the elements are met. Under tort, damages compensate for actual losses that would put Ruben in substantially the same position as he was before the wrong. Because fraud is an intentional bad act, punitive damages are also available.

5) Ruben can wave the tort and sue under legal restitution theory of assumpsit to get a money judgment for the unjust enrichment to revover money paid or value of goods - just another option for Ruben to get his money back

Note 1: Fraud requires misrepresentation of a material fact made knowingly with justifiable reasonable reliance causing damage. Under these facts, it could be argued that Ruben's reliance was not reasonable, i.e., Ruben should have known it was fake by looking or Ruben should have inquired further about the white line.

Note 2: Punitive damages (to punish for intentional bad acts) are generally not available as a K remedy; however, some states have provisions that allow you to sue for punitive damages arising from K dispute if you can prove up the tort of fraud; other states allow you to sue under both K and tort but collect only once. You need to check with state law for specifics regarding punitive damages.

Note 3: When you defame a person publically and damage his reputation, you risk a lawsuit for defamation. As long as your defamatory words are true and you can prove it up in court, this will be an absolute defense to any defamation lawsuit - but you still have to defend yourself in court and prove the truth of your defmatory words.


***Disclaimer***

I have a law degree and passed the CA bar, but I am NOT a lawyer, and I haven't studied this shit for 10 yrs...thus...

The above info is not legal advice and may be complete bullshit. The above legal info is black letter law tested on the CA bar (majority case law); thus, state statutory law and a qualified lawyer should be consulted if you plan to sue

My best advice - it's almost never worth it to sue - especially over silly shit like posters. It's always better to work it out.
6/12/12 1:21 PM
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Rew96
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The thing is Homeboy did not name the person, thus he did not deframe anyone. There were names thrown out and he made the decision to not defend one of the names mentioned. Thus people do not know with 100% cerainty that the person who is being blamed (in this case Yuma) based on what the OP said. Aslong as he does not confirm or name the person defamation will be hard to prove.

In order to nail the OP for defamation said person must admit that this transaction, which would prove that he sold a fake. Now with the persons knowledge of the items and his experience it would be tricky for him to try and claim he did not know the item was a fake, but he still could try.
6/12/12 1:32 PM
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the_homeboy
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Thanks Matt! If the person hadn't flat out lied to me I would take the refund. But since you knew it was fake in Nov 2011 and sold it to me a couple of mos ago without even mentioning you even thought it was a fake and I have proof of said lie (emails) these are your options:

Option #1 Replace the fake Pride 4 for a real Pride 4.

If you don't want to give up your only real Pride 4

Option #2 Replace it with your extra Pride 1

Let me know, i'm still willing to work with you. Unless of course you want to go the legal road, that would be
Option #3. Where you would have to do the above plus punitive damages for fraud.
Only reason i'm willing to work with you is we've dealt with each other for many years, hung out at events, been to your house, your job, met your kids etc. I DON'T want to sue anybody just want to get what we agreed to. A real Pride 4 or I'm willing to take the Pride 1.
6/12/12 2:00 PM
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bjjdna
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Rew96 - The thing is Homeboy did not name the person, thus he did not deframe anyone. There were names thrown out and he made the decision to not defend one of the names mentioned. Thus people do not know with 100% cerainty that the person who is being blamed (in this case Yuma) based on what the OP said. Aslong as he does not confirm or name the person defamation will be hard to prove.

In order to nail the OP for defamation said person must admit that this transaction, which would prove that he sold a fake. Now with the persons knowledge of the items and his experience it would be tricky for him to try and claim he did not know the item was a fake, but he still could try.



you don't need to name the person and 100% certainty is not required fro defamation

under theories of inducement, innuendo, and colloquium, a statement is actionable as defamation if a reasonable reader/lisnter/viewer would be able to figure out who is being defamed via additional extrinsic available facts

if "said person" admitted he knowingly sold a fake, then Ruben's statement calling "said person" out as a liar and seller of fakes would not be actionable as defamation...cuz the "said person" would be admitting that Rubin's statment was true

btw anyone that repeats a defamatory statement can be sued too - along with the original publisher
6/12/12 3:34 PM
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flyingtoehold
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This fake poster shit's getting out of hand! Someone sent me a message asking me if "by any chance" I sold the fake one.......IT WASN'T ME MOFO's.
6/12/12 4:29 PM
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Big Shot
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 I think that assuming YUMA did it and throwing him under the bus, without any names being given by homeboy, is out of bounds by all parties involved. Just because homeboy did not say that YUMA wasn't the one after stating that PIMP did not do it, isn't fair to automatically assume that he is the one. To automatically assume that one is guilty and throw him under the bus, for personal gratification without any proof or prior statement from homeboy as to who the guilty party is, is BULLSHIT in my book! If you you assume, you make an ASS/ U / ME. I would hope YUMA would not do such an action. But without any proof given by homeboy as to who the perpetrator is , any accusations a frivolous and bullshit in my book. Shut your mouths as to who it is and quit assuming. You are slandering ones name without any given proof! If it is him, then I will stand corrected and eat shit. If not, then stop throwing someone under the bus and STFU!!!!
6/12/12 4:32 PM
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the chip guy
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Lloyd gave me my bluename 9/11 Clown Top Team - Kirik got back to me and is ready to make me a mod and de-mod Yuma once he comes forward and acknowedgles his scumbaggery...and if Yuma doesn't address the situation in a couple days Kirk will go ahead and do so anyway 

 lol! I think mmarelics.com would get a lot of new members if this ever happened....
6/12/12 4:33 PM
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fightpimp
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 The Official "Pride 4 Poster Witch Hunt" t-shirts will be available for purchase on Monday... All original artwork, no copies!
6/12/12 4:33 PM
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yumaslim
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Its funny how things blow up sooooo fast! LOL!

The funny part is that i was going to start a thread about this last week.

I sold Ruben the Pride 4 not knowing it was fake. That poster came from Murphy. Heres what really happened.

WE met in a place to make the deal. We talked for a while then walked out to the car. We pulled the poster out and before it was all the way out he noticed a line on the poster. We looked at each other with a puzzled look, then looked at it again. The line looked suspect for sure. I should have pulled the deal then but i didnt. Thats where this deal is messed up. He rolled it up and took it anyway. When I left that parking lot, i got ahold of murphy. I asked him if that poster is 100% real. He told me its real and that he got it directly from Japan. So I left it at that.(I was out money on my purchase if he would have told me it was fake, as well as the deal i made with Ruben) I have 4 differnt Pride 4s and i should have looked into it more, but i didnt. I am at fault for not investigating it more before the deal.

Fast foward 3 months or so. Out of ther blue i get a text out of the blue from Ruben telling me its fake. Im thinking "great this is what i need right now". So he tells me its fake and that line was a fold and the papers different. First i want to see proof. Then i told him if it is actually fake and prooved as such, a full refund is in order. I felt bad if this is true what he was saying. But before the proof pics were sent to me, he came back with my only option was to give him one of my pride 4s or one of my pride 1s(since i had them laying around). LOL!
6/12/12 4:41 PM
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yumaslim
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Once he sent me the pics i then went into further. The line on the poster is the fold printed from the original. Ruben just happened to find the poster with the fold where the copies were made from. This prooves without a doubt it is a fake.

I tried over 5 or 6 times to right this by telling him i will give a full refund for this. I would even send it right away. He was firm on his stand that he didnt want money from me, but another poster. Im not giving him a replacement poster! By the end of the conversation i went from feeling bad for doing this and trying to fix it, to pissed off that he doesnt want a refund. He came at me like i was out to get him or something and that isnt the way to fix it. Whos gonna sit there and listen to that for a while before you just say "FUCK YOU THEN, I TRIED"?
6/12/12 4:47 PM
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yumaslim
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And then wait for a Thread to start on the Mem. ground to explain it all.
6/12/12 4:47 PM
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yumaslim
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White belt with 2 stripes, hit me up!!!
6/12/12 4:48 PM
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grkblood
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Joe Show Radio, Owner
Yuma, if what Ruben said is true about the emails then you did knowlingly sell him a fake and that's a bigger issue than whether or not you give him another real poster. I don't see why Ruben would lie about these emails so now it's on him to provide the proof that he was talking about. I suppose that will come shortly.
6/12/12 5:03 PM
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Big Shot
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Lloyd gave me my bluename 9/11 Clown Top Team - Kirik got back to me and is ready to make me a mod and de-mod Yuma once he comes forward and acknowedgles his scumbaggery...and if Yuma doesn't address the situation in a couple days Kirk will go ahead and do so anyway 

 Sad to see that your so quick to sell someone out for self gratification to become a MOD. Where I'm from people get lit up for being a sell out! Omertà look it up! Most my people live by it! 
6/12/12 5:13 PM
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yumaslim
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Joe, Im sure they will. When i got my first pride 4 i questioned it and asked around about it(emails). I had got one to sell as well before the deal with Ruben.
6/12/12 5:32 PM
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grkblood
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Joe Show Radio, Owner
Yuma, please tell me if I'm understanding what you're saying correctly. Last November you obtained a Pride 4 poster that you thought might be fake and you explained why you thought it was a fake in the email that you typed out. A few months later you come into possession of another Pride 4 poster and for whatever reason you never even looked at it before selling it even though just a few months prior to that you obtained the same type of poster with similar suspect flaws. If that's correct and its just coincidental then this should be easily solvable.

Take a picture of the fake that you were talking about in the emails next to a real Pride 4 (you said you had multiple ones) and put a piece of paper with todays date in the shot. If you do that it seems like it would prove that these posters were seperate.

To add my personal opinion to this, it seems very awkward that a collector such as yourself wouldn't inspect a poster of this price before selling it especially considering you just got burned with a fake just a few months before that.
6/12/12 5:33 PM
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Big Shot
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Lloyd gave me my bluename 9/11 Clown Top Team - it's clearly pimp or yuma, and whoever it is should lose mod privileges...since I was next in line, I'll go ahead and PM Kirik now so the transitioning of mods flows as smooth as possible



 I rather eat shit, then be a piece of shit like you! At least I don't sell people out like you, to try to make myself look good! Stugatz!
6/12/12 7:14 PM
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armbarheelhook
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well Yuma acknowledged it is him who has the isssue with homeboy.
And Yuma has admitted in his posts that they determined it is a fake poster..
If homeboy decided to take yuma to court I believe homeboy would win.. i'm not in law so maybe bjjdna can advise.
simply based on what yuma stated above and him saying " I am at fault for not investigating ....further."

however, yuma did state that he would offer a full refund, which would probably be the same outcome in court..

Trying to prove that yuma sold the (now determined) fake poster in question knowing this knowledge beforehand seems a harder sell..

Unless homeboy has definitive proof that yuma knew this was the case, homeboy has no basis on this matter in the eyes of the court imo.. again, bjjdna for clarification? Phone Post
6/12/12 7:24 PM
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Big Shot
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 I'm all for looking out for each other! I'm just not with I'm going to tell on you, so KIRIK will make me a MOD. If you had good intentions by it, I'm all for it. But to sell someone out to gain personal favoritism is B.S.. Your condensation on FightPimp and YUMA out the Gate is not what I call looking out for someone, by assuming with out proof that either was already guilty and judged in your opinion. Then calling someone, a fellow collector at that a name, then since you were next in line, let me go tell KIRIK so the transition is smooth! That's not looking out for someone, it's called looking out for yourself! You basically couldn't wait for someone to screw up, to run to KIRIK to gain favoritism to get yourself a MOD position. That's not being a helper/ that's being a cut throat sell out. Your words say it all!!!! I'm now eating shit like I said I would, cuzz I'm stand up like that. I just think your politics stink! I'm all for looking out for everyone as far as collecting goes.nobody wants fake merchandise, just like nobody want a sell out!
6/12/12 7:38 PM
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hunto21
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Just waiting for someone to find a reason that this is all my fault! :)
6/12/12 7:46 PM
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Big Shot
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 It is HUNTO!!!! Don't try to play all innocent now!!!!! Lol!
6/12/12 7:52 PM
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blushgirl412
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Never had any issues with Homeboy or Yuma and have purchased from both over the years. Hopefully, this can be worked out between both of them

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