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MMA Memorabilia UnderGround >> Fake Pride 4 poster


6/12/12 8:23 PM
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fightpimp
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 The words "Lloyd" and "MOD" in the same sentence are a fucking joke. If Lloyd becomes a mod you would never see a single post from me again here. 

 abre los ojos, puta.
6/12/12 8:36 PM
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armbarheelhook
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fightpimp -  The words "Lloyd" and "MOD" in the same sentence are a fucking joke. If Lloyd becomes a mod you would never see a single post from me again here. 

 abre los ojos, puta.
for those of you who don't know spanish...

FP stated "sheds a tear"... keke ;) jk Phone Post
6/12/12 9:02 PM
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fightpimp
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 aprite gli occhi puttane. again. done.
6/12/12 9:17 PM
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mmagirl104
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pretty sure Lloyd was just trolling ...
6/12/12 10:43 PM
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aces_taylor
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Big Shot -  I'm all for looking out for each other! I'm just not with I'm going to tell on you, so KIRIK will make me a MOD. If you had good intentions by it, I'm all for it. But to sell someone out to gain personal favoritism is B.S.. Your condensation on FightPimp and YUMA out the Gate is not what I call looking out for someone, by assuming with out proof that either was already guilty and judged in your opinion. Then calling someone, a fellow collector at that a name, then since you were next in line, let me go tell KIRIK so the transition is smooth! That's not looking out for someone, it's called looking out for yourself! You basically couldn't wait for someone to screw up, to run to KIRIK to gain favoritism to get yourself a MOD position. That's not being a helper/ that's being a cut throat sell out. Your words say it all!!!! I'm now eating shit like I said I would, cuzz I'm stand up like that. I just think your politics stink! I'm all for looking out for everyone as far as collecting goes.nobody wants fake merchandise, just like nobody want a sell out!
You just let Lloyd troll the shit outta you. You can't take him seriously. He pulled you in. Phone Post
6/12/12 10:46 PM
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aces_taylor
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And if this went to "court"; the best case scenario is a full refund. The point of court is to make you whole again, how you were before the transaction, not to better your position. So there's no way a court would EVER award you a Pride 1 or a real 4; you would "win" your money back, that's it. Phone Post
6/12/12 10:52 PM
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hunto21
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Maybe he wants pain and suffering damaged. Lol
6/12/12 11:28 PM
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Big Shot
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 I hear you on that ACES, Im just not a big fan of shit talkers! 
6/12/12 11:37 PM
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aces_taylor
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Totally understand what you're saying, shot. Lloyd's just the "known" troll of the memorabilia forum. Phone Post
6/13/12 12:01 AM
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Big Shot
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 Good looking out aces, appreciate the heads up. I know now to steer clear of his BS next time. 
6/13/12 7:38 AM
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mmagirl104
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^ awesome
6/13/12 8:42 AM
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Big Shot
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 *AVOID THE LLOYD*
6/13/12 3:29 PM
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the_homeboy
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yumaslim - Its funny how things blow up sooooo fast! LOL!

The funny part is that i was going to start a thread about this last week.

I sold Ruben the Pride 4 not knowing it was fake. That poster came from Murphy. Heres what really happened.

WE met in a place to make the deal. We talked for a while then walked out to the car. We pulled the poster out and before it was all the way out he noticed a line on the poster. We looked at each other with a puzzled look, then looked at it again. The line looked suspect for sure. I should have pulled the deal then but i didnt. Thats where this deal is messed up. He rolled it up and took it anyway. When I left that parking lot, i got ahold of murphy. I asked him if that poster is 100% real. He told me its real and that he got it directly from Japan. So I left it at that.(I was out money on my purchase if he would have told me it was fake, as well as the deal i made with Ruben) I have 4 differnt Pride 4s and i should have looked into it more, but i didnt. I am at fault for not investigating it more before the deal.

Fast foward 3 months or so. Out of ther blue i get a text out of the blue from Ruben telling me its fake. Im thinking "great this is what i need right now". So he tells me its fake and that line was a fold and the papers different. First i want to see proof. Then i told him if it is actually fake and prooved as such, a full refund is in order. I felt bad if this is true what he was saying. But before the proof pics were sent to me, he came back with my only option was to give him one of my pride 4s or one of my pride 1s(since i had them laying around). LOL!


1. Jeremy, first of all there is nothing funny about this! You said here "what's funny". If it was you who was sold a fake and lied to you wouldn't be laughing. Nobody on here would.

2. You said: "I sold Ruben the Pride 4 not knowing it was fake." Flat out lie! You are a printer, have been a printer for how many years? 10+? You work in a print shop. I've been there. You run a large printing press, print professional, high quality posters, marketing and promotional posters etc. You can spot a copy / fake in an INSTANT, you know inks, paper types, (or stock types as printers call them) you have a real Pride 4, you "supposedly" bought a fake Pride 4 poster emailed other collectors to ask their opinion, you then bought another fake Pride 4 poster(the one you sold me) we meet look at the poster, you had already seen a "REAL" and "FAKE" Pride 4 poster and you're saying you couldn't tell it was a fake. LOL!!!!!

You said here you were sold another fake before the one you sold me. You as the collector you are, having an online museum, your prestigious items on the Octagon Nation Tour trailer, would have not bought another one without making sure it was real. None of us are looking to buy fakes, are you the only one?

In fact why don't you put up the fake Pride 4 along side a real one on the Octagon Nation Tour to let all the fans know what a fake looks like. You can write a story saying how popular collecting has become that people are now making fakes of these highly valued posters and to be careful of LIARS!.(just being sarcastic in this paragraph)

No Pride 4 fakes have popped up before these "supposed 2". All of a sudden there are 2 and you got both within a period of a few months?


6/13/12 4:50 PM
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fightpimp
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  I would like to see both fakes, as I am sure everybody else would??? Side by side may be tough seeing that Ruben has one and Jeremy has the other but I would definitely like to see the "first" fake 4... that way we can start figuring out where these came from, which imo is the main problem we will all be dealing with in the future...    
6/13/12 4:54 PM
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armbarheelhook
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homeboy: you posted the Real poster side by side with your fake in this thread..

which we know someone copied from to create your fake, hence the white stripe from the fold on the Real..

Do we know the timeline of ownership of the Real Pride 4 you posted earlier?

meaning, did yuma or murphy at one time owned this poster and or when they owned it or sold it to someone else..

If very few ppl have owned that particular poster with fold, then we could weed down who could have possibly made the fake one..

See if you can find this ownership timeline info from the person who currently owns the Real poster from which your copy/fake was made.. Phone Post
6/13/12 5:19 PM
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Sofa King Cool
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^This, where did the original white line one come from?

Also, if Yuma works in a print shop with large printing equipment..... The plot thickens. Phone Post
6/13/12 6:48 PM
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the_homeboy
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armbarheelhook - homeboy: you posted the Real poster side by side with your fake in this thread..<br><br>which we know someone copied from to create your fake, hence the white stripe from the fold on the Real..<br><br>Do we know the timeline of ownership of the Real Pride 4 you posted earlier?<br><br>meaning, did yuma or murphy at one time owned this poster and or when they owned it or sold it to someone else..<br><br>If very few ppl have owned that particular poster with fold, then we could weed down who could have possibly made the fake one..<br><br>See if you can find this ownership timeline info from the person who currently owns the Real poster from which your copy/fake was made.. <img src="/images/phone/droid.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


The owner of the real poster and I are in the process of tracking down where his real one came from. He's going through emails from years past. We've been making a timeline since the day we found out it was a fake. He will be posting that info as soon as he has it. Boiled it down to a few people already just not the exact person. Whoever sold it to him or whoever sold it to that person is the one who made the copy.
6/13/12 6:51 PM
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the_homeboy
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Sofa King Cool - ^This, where did the original white line one come from?<br><br>Also, if Yuma works in a print shop with large printing equipment..... The plot thickens. <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


No way Yuma printed the Pride 4, it would've been perfect, no mistakes. I gotta defend him on that one.
6/13/12 8:12 PM
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armbarheelhook
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homeboy: if what you stated above is true about what yuma does for a living and his experience or lackthereof pertaining to the business of printing, I could understand why you are vehemently pissed...

also, yuma stating he currently has (4) Pride #4s, yet he doesnt fully compare them all to each other before selling is inexcusable.. granted not all would have the white fold on them, but ALL REAL Pride 4's would be on same paper stock and ALL would be that dark black kinda glossy instead of subdued black..

so these two indicators yuma could easily compare to the (4) he currently has on hand..

Maybe yuma isnt as experienced at spotting fakes/copies? Maybe he had a brain fart and forgot to compare them? Yuma stated he should have compared the two in his post, so I guess it was a brain fart.. Phone Post
6/14/12 1:30 PM
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bjjdna
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aces_taylor - And if this went to "court"; the best case scenario is a full refund. The point of court is to make you whole again, how you were before the transaction, not to better your position. So there's no way a court would EVER award you a Pride 1 or a real 4; you would "win" your money back, that's it. <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>



A full refund via rescission/restitution is NOT the best case scenario for Ruben; it's just the most likely scenario under these facts. If this went to court, the judge would likely scold both parties for wasting the court's time and then order rescision/restitution (cancel the K with full refund) based on defenses to K formation (mutual mistake and/or misrepresentation) which make the K voidable.

Don't confuse tort and K law - as they each have different elements/remedies. The purpose of tort law is to remedy a civil worng not arising out of K and compensate for actual losses that would put Ruben in substantially the same position as he was before the wrong (full refund).

The fake P4 Ruben/Yuma situation however arises out of K - not tort. The objective for K remedies is to place Ruben in substantially as good a position as he would have been in if the K had been performed, ie, Ruben's loss of expectancy interest from the K (ie the P4).

btw courts can most definately "better" one's position, eg, if after Yuma/Ruben agreed and formed a valid K, Yuma then received another offer and sold the P4 for $1,000, Ruben would then have a right to Yuma's gains via the equitable restitution rememdy of constructive trust.

Ruben has other "better" options to pursue than just a full refund 1) damages to "cover" or 2) he can pursue the the P4 under "specific performance", or 3) he can pursue the P1 under an "accord and satisfaction," or 4) he can sue in tort for damages, including punitives.

1) K compensatory damages are Ruben's cost to "cover" and buy a real P4. It's the full refund plus the market price differential at time of breach, ie, the commercially reasonable price of the P4 on the day he discovered it was fake. This is ALSO a VERY POSSIBLE remedy for Ruben.

2) Courts always prefer to award money damages for K/tort cases, but since Ruben's expectancy under the K was the P4, Ruben has the option to sue in equity under a theory of specific performance (forces performance of the K).

The UCC is K law that governs the sale of goods. UCC Section 2-716 states: "specific performance may be decreed where the goods are unique or in other proper circumstances

Inability to cover makes goods both "unique" and also satisfies "other proper circumstances." Inability to cover exists if there is a market shortage of P4s or if Yuma has a monopoly on the P4s. So if at judgement time, there are no available P4's for purcahse, the court can order Yuma to hand over a P4. Specific performanc is NOT LIKELY under these facts imo.

3) Accord and Satisfaction is an agreeement (between Yuma and Ruben) to accept something different from the P4 in order to extinguish the original obligation - not likely Yuma will agree to give up a P1 imo.

4) Tort damages for fraud would equal a full refund and possibly punitives. However, this issue arose out of K and courts don't award punitives often. To sue for fraud and punitives is a loser for Ruben imo but it's very possible and he can certainly try.


***Disclaimer***

...as I already mentioned, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice...it's always better to work it out and NOT go to court....ok i'm done with my legal rant...
6/14/12 1:39 PM
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aces_taylor
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Cool post. Phone Post
6/14/12 10:03 PM
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the_homeboy
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Zombie Flanders - SO who is the source of all these fake posters??

We don't know yet. It's under investigation, as soon as we know, you will all know ;)
6/15/12 12:50 PM
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D1N0
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I'm sorry, I didn't read through the whole thread, so I might be missing something.

But Homeboy, why the hell would you even buy the poster when you saw it and handled it in person!!

Mistake #1:
It clearly has a "creased" line at the bottom but isn't creased. You can feel to the touch if a poster is creased or not.

Mistake #2:
You asked him about it and he "changes the subject" and starts saying how good the colors look. why would someone ever say how good the colors look if a poster is real.

Shit just doesn't match up. I don't care how knowledgable or experienced someone is, that doesn't always mean he or she is legit. If The_homeboy really is the victim here, than IMO, it's his own fault.

You're not that stupid, and you should've known. Just a quick google search on your phone or whatever would've shown you there shouldn't be a white line there.

After reading your OP, I would only blame yourself.. Yea it sucks Yuma sold you a fake poster and who knows how many more are out there or even if he can be trusted again. But IMO, it's your own fault. Especially after seeing and handling it in person.
6/15/12 12:58 PM
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grkblood
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 D1N0 obviously has never done business with someone he trusts and calls a friend.
6/15/12 1:05 PM
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D1N0
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grkblood -  D1N0 obviously has never done business with someone he trusts and calls a friend.

Haha, It's so clear!

If I'm gonna spend that type of money on a poster. I'm gonna know what the poster looks like and I'd be familiar with it. Like I said before, it doesn't matter who it came from, a fake is a fake. If there was no creased line than that'd be a different story. Obviously because then, it'd be way harder to tell.

But that's a clear fake if there's no actual crease, but a crease mark on the poster. C'mon now.


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