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6/14/12 6:35 PM
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colubrid1
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The Sufficiency of The Word


It is significant that one of the biblical names of Christ is Wonderful Counselor (Isa. 9:6). He is the highest and ultimate One to whom we may turn for counsel, and His Word is the well from which we may draw divine wisdom. What could be more wonderful than that? In fact, one of the most glorious aspects of Christ’s perfect sufficiency is the wonderful counsel and great wisdom He supplies in our times of despair, confusion, fear, anxiety, and sorrow. He is the quintessential Counselor.

This is not to denigrate the importance of Christians counseling each other. There certainly is a crucial need for biblically sound counseling ministries within the Church, and this need is met by those who are spiritually gifted to offer encouragement, discernment, comfort, advice, compassion, and help to others. In fact, one of the very problems that has led to the current plague of bad counsel is that churches have not done as well as they could in equipping people with those kinds of gifts to minister effectively. In addition, the complexities of this modern age have made it more difficult to take the time necessary to listen well, serve others through compassionate personal involvement, and otherwise provide the close fellowship necessary for the church body to enjoy health and vitality.

Churches have looked to psychology to fill the gap, but it isn’t going to work. Professional psychologists are no substitute for spiritually gifted people, and the counsel that psychology offers cannot replace biblical wisdom and divine power. Moreover, psychology tends to make people dependent on a therapist, whereas those exercising true spiritual gifts always turn people back to all-sufficient Savior and His all-sufficient Word.

A Psalm on Scripture’s Sufficiency Psalm 19:7–9 is the most monumental and concise statement on the sufficiency of Scripture ever made. Penned by David under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, these three verses offer unwavering testimony from God Himself about the sufficiency of His Word for every situation and thereby counter the teaching of those who believe that God’s Word must be augmented with truth gleaned from modern psychology. In this passage David makes six statements, each highlighting a characteristic of Scripture and describing its effect in the life of the one who embraces it. Taken together, these statements paint a beautiful picture of the sufficiency of God’s Word.

Scripture Is Perfect, Restoring the Soul In the first statement (v. 7), David says, “The law of the Lord is perfect, restoring the soul.” This word “perfect” is the translation of a common Hebrew word meaning “whole,” “complete,” or “sufficient.” It conveys the idea of something that is comprehensive, so as to cover all aspects of an issue. Scripture is comprehensive, embodying all that is necessary to one’s spiritual life. David’s implied contrast here is with the imperfect, insufficient, flawed reasoning of men.

God’s perfect law, David says, affects people by “restoring the soul” (v. 7). To paraphrase David’s words, Scripture is so powerful and comprehensive that it can convert or transform the entire person, changing someone into precisely the person God wants him to be. God’s Word is sufficient to restore through salvation even the most broken life—a fact to which David himself gave abundant testimony.

Scripture Is Trustworthy, Imparting Wisdom David further expands the sweep of scriptural sufficiency in Psalm 19:7, writing, “The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.” David’s use of the word “sure” means that the Lord’s testimony is unwavering, immovable, unmistakable, reliable, and worthy to be trusted. It provides a foundation on which to build one’s life and eternal destiny.

God’s sure Word makes the simple wise (v. 7). The Hebrew word translated “simple” comes from an expression meaning “an open door.” It evokes the image of a naive person who doesn’t know to shut his mind to false or impure teaching. He is undiscerning, ignorant, and gullible, but God’s Word makes him wise. Such a man is skilled in the art of godly living: He submits to Scripture and knows how to apply it to his circumstances. The Word of God thus takes a simple mind with no discernment and makes it skilled in the issues of life.

Scripture Is Right, Causing Joy In verse 8, David adds a third statement about Scripture’s sufficiency: “The precepts of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart.” Rather than simply indicating what is right as opposed to wrong, the word translated “right” has the sense of showing someone the true path. The truths of Scripture lay out the proper path through the difficult maze of life. That brings a wonderful confidence. So many people are distressed or despondent because they lack direction and purpose, and most of them seek answers from the wrong sources. God’s Word not only provides the light to our path (Ps. 119:105), but also sets the route before us.

Because it steers us through the right course of life, God’s Word brings great joy. If one is depressed, anxious, fearful, or doubting, the solution is found not in self-indulgent pursuits like self-esteem and self-fulfillment. The solution is found in learning to obey God’s counsel and sharing in the resulting delight. Divine truth is the fount of true and lasting joy. All other sources are shallow and fleeting.

Scripture Is Pure, Enlightening the Eyes Psalm 19:8 gives a fourth characteristic of Scripture’s utter sufficiency: “The commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.” This word “pure” could better be translated “clear” or “lucid,” and it indicates that Scripture is not mystifying, confusing, or puzzling. God’s Word reveals truth to make the dark things light, bringing eternity into bright focus. Granted, there are things in Scripture that are hard to understand (2 Pet. 3:16), but taken as a whole, the Bible is not a bewildering book. It is clear and lucid.

Because of its absolute clarity, Scripture brings understanding where there is ignorance, order where there is confusion, and light where there is spiritual and moral darkness. It stands in stark contrast to the muddled musings of unredeemed men, who themselves are blind and unable to discern truth or live righteously. God’s Word clearly reveals the blessed, hopeful truths they can never see.

Scripture Is Clean, Enduring Forever In Psalm 19:9 David uses the term “fear” as a synonym for God’s Word: “The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever.” This “fear” speaks of the reverential awe for God that compels believers to worship Him. Scripture, in this sense, is the divine manual on how to worship the Lord. The Hebrew word “clean” speaks of the absence of impurity, filthiness, defilement, or imperfection. Scripture is without sin, evil, corruption, or error. The truth it conveys is therefore absolutely undefiled and without blemish.

Because it is flawless, Scripture endures fo
6/14/12 7:08 PM
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Lahi
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Do you think there is a place for the Christian psychologist?
6/14/12 7:56 PM
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colubrid1
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Lahi - Do you think there is a place for the Christian psychologist?


No
6/15/12 12:42 AM
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Ali
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your last post is cut off, colubrid. I assume you credited the author of that piece of writing, but that was cut off at the end, too.
6/15/12 9:23 AM
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colubrid1
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Okay, thanks for point that out. I did not see that.

The author would prefer to stay anonymous.



Because it is flawless, Scripture endures forever.. (Ps. 19:9). Any change or modification could only introduce imperfection. Scripture is eternally and unalterably perfect. It needs no updating, editing, or refining, for it is God’s revelation for every generation. The Bible was written by the omniscient Spirit of God, who is infinitely more sophisticated than anyone who dares stand in judgment on Scripture’s relevancy for our society, and infinitely wiser than all the best philosophers, analysts, and psychologists who pass like a childhood parade into irrelevancy. Scripture has always been and will always be sufficient.

Scripture Is True, Altogether Righteous Verse 9 provides the final characteristic and effect of God’s all-sufficient Word: “The judgments of the Lord are true; they are righteous altogether.” The word “judgments” in this context refers to ordinances or divine verdicts from the bench of the Supreme Judge of the earth. The Bible is God’s standard for judging the life and eternal destiny of every person. Because Scripture is true, it is “righteous altogether” (Ps. 19:9). The implication of that phrase is that its truthfulness produces a comprehensive righteousness in those who accept it.

Contrary to what many are teaching today, there is no need for additional revelations, visions, words of prophecy, or insights from modern psychology. In contrast to the theories of men, God’s Word is true and absolutely comprehensive. Rather than seeking something more than God’s glorious revelation, Christians need only to study and obey what they already have. Scripture is sufficient.


6/15/12 11:13 AM
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Ali
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That's a whole lot of words for very few simple (and simplistic) assertions. It reads a lot like some of the Scientology "bulletins", actually. Is the author remaining anonymous because she or he is still working on it?
6/15/12 1:14 PM
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TheHawker
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bibliolatry
6/15/12 1:23 PM
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reverend john
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yup,

rev
6/15/12 1:24 PM
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reverend john
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you can make the bible support almost anything, as ten thousand denominations are proof of

rev
6/15/12 5:01 PM
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colubrid1
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It was written by a rabbi who coverted to christianity and had a hit out in his life in Jerusalam for becoming christian. He of course speaks fluent hebrew but he is also fluent in greek.

his father and his fathers father were rabbis. of course when a real Jew converts they lose everything they had.

You could say he knows scripture.

6/15/12 5:40 PM
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reverend john
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you could say he knows scripture, you could also say he has lost perspective. Christ told the Jewish scribes of his day, the Sabbath was created for man, not man for the Sabbath. I have no problem believing that today he would say, the scriptures were made for man, not man for the scriptures. Jesus never says, if you see the bible you see the father. He says the scriptures "tell of me" but he doesn't say they are the way the truth and the life. Only CHrist is the exact representation of God, only Christ is the way the truth and the life. St. Paul was very clear when he said that the law killeth, but the Spirit gives life. The spiritual gift of wisdom is extremely biblical, how can you say that people aren't given gifts of wisdom and knowledge that is not just quoting scripture? insight into our lives, and who we are? In fact was it the scriptures that Jesus turned to for how to deal with the woman at the well? or the woman caught in adultery? or even the scribes and pharisees?

Oh, well we aren't Jesus... this is true, so did Paul use the scriptures speaking to the Greeks at Mars Hill? A bit, but he started appealing to philosophy. Did Peter use the scriptures in responding to cornelious? No, he responded to the Spirit.

Jesus is the one that walks among the lampstands, still walks among the churches. The scripture is an authority, it is an guide, it is a narrative that shows us God, and God's purpose and most importantly Christ himself, but the scriptures are not The Way, The Truth or The Life, and to treat them as such is idolatry

rev
6/15/12 6:39 PM
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colubrid1
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Edited: 06/15/12 7:14 PM
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I hear what you are saying john and it is noted. Since I know him personally, I think he has those things you mentioned balanced pretty well.

He has given up more than most to follow Christ.

It is other like the ten thousand denominations you mentioned earlier. They and "us" (ingrafted) don't know the scripture as well. This is not idolatry but ignorance.

I think we go back to the depravity of man post I made before. An issue that even you bring up from time to time when you change your thoughts on something
6/15/12 6:47 PM
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colubrid1
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Ali - That's a whole lot of words for very few simple (and simplistic) assertions. It reads a lot like some of the Scientology "bulletins", actually. Is the author remaining anonymous because she or he is still working on it?



Actually i just copied it from the church bulletin he handed out that day. He is a pastor of a church I used to belong to. Since i moved far away I don't go there but found the bulletin and decided to copy it here. So i don't think it is so well thought out as he never meant for it to be published anywhere. In hindsight it was wrong for me to post it w/o his permission. Thats why i said he will remain annonymous..

Just didn't think i would get all these questions as to who wrote it.
6/15/12 6:55 PM
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colubrid1
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John,
have you ever heard of Chip Brodgen?
6/15/12 7:11 PM
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colubrid1
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Edited: 06/15/12 7:12 PM
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double post
6/15/12 7:17 PM
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reverend john
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have no idea what you are talking about.

nor do I have any idea who Chip is

I will say that we do not have a million denominations because of ignorance. If we just did what is plainly clear in scripture, to love even our enemies, and forgive seven times seventy we would not be where we are today.

rev
6/15/12 10:25 PM
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Lahi
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colubrid1 - 
Lahi - Do you think there is a place for the Christian psychologist?


No


I think there is a lot to be said for the healing power of following Jesus in community, I really do. Studying the Bible, and working to live out Jesus' call in Christian community, are powerful things that can bring a lot of healing. But I still don't see the Bible as being written with the intent to give us every answer to every problem, including psychological ones.

I think it was CS Lewis who said that when the Bible tells us to feed the hungery, it doesn't give us cooking lessons. It teaches us to care for the sick, but I don't think that means we shouldn't be training doctors and nurses in things modern medicine has learned since the Bible was put together.

I think the same is true of mental health. Of course there is a huge spiritual component to it. But there are also biological issues, and again psychological issues we know about today that scrpiture doesn't deal with.

Post-traumatic stress disorder would be one example. People who know their stuff will tell you about the healing power of community in helping those with PTSD, especially communities that teach things like accountabilty, moral inventory, prayer, and meditation. But there has also been research done showning other effective ways to help folks with PTSD to heal. I don't see why they should be denied this, just because it isn't in the bible. Scripture gives us a recipe for bread; but should churches not be allowed to serve hot dogs to the poor as well, because scripture doesn't talk about them too?

I don't see the issue with a Christian psychologist treating believers. That way he or she can be sensitive to the beliefs of the person being treated, can ground treatment in scripture whenever possible, but can also make use of things that an average pastor - however grounded in the Bible - just wouldn't know about.

I'm not saying psychologists can never get off track. I've heard of some using methods I wouldn't want anyone, believer or otherwise, to waste their time with. And again, I really, really believe in the power of Christian community, and in the study of Scripture. But I don't think that means we can't make good use of medical advances that have come about since Bible times as well.
6/15/12 10:39 PM
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Lahi
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Edited: 06/15/12 10:48 PM
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And of course there are more extreme examples of people with conditions that simply need modern medicine, and modern psychology, for treatment. I worked for awhile with high-risk autistic adults. Scripture helped me to be calmer in dealing with them, and they could be pretty volatile and unpredictable, so I'm glad for that. But I am also very grateful for the team of psychologists who worked with these men, and who dedicate their lives to figuring out ways to help them live less violently, and more fully overall. Maybe this is outside the area you were talking about, but I think its an example where the Bible isn't enough, and you really need the research modern science and psychology have given us.
6/15/12 11:11 PM
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colubrid1
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"I think there is a lot to be said for the healing power of following Jesus in community, I really do. Studying the Bible, and working to live out Jesus' call in Christian community, are powerful things that can bring a lot of healing. But I still don't see the Bible as being written with the intent to give us every answer to every problem, including psychological ones.

I think it was CS Lewis who said that when the Bible tells us to feed the hungery, it doesn't give us cooking lessons. It teaches us to care for the sick, but I don't think that means we shouldn't be training doctors and nurses in things modern medicine has learned since the Bible was put together."


Modern medicine yes. Pshchology no.

"I think the same is true of mental health. Of course there is a huge spiritual component to it. But there are also biological issues, and again psychological issues we know about today that scrpiture doesn't deal with.

Post-traumatic stress disorder would be one example. People who know their stuff will tell you about the healing power of community in helping those with PTSD, especially communities that teach things like accountabilty, moral inventory, prayer, and meditation. But there has also been research done showning other effective ways to help folks with PTSD to heal. I don't see why they should be denied this, just because it isn't in the bible. Scripture gives us a recipe for bread; but should churches not be allowed to serve hot dogs to the poor as well, because scripture doesn't talk about them too?"

Meditation? Com'n John, you know its roots and what is involved.

..and how did we go from psyhcology to recipe for hotdogs?





"I don't see the issue with a Christian psychologist treating believers. That way he or she can be sensitive to the beliefs of the person being treated, can ground treatment in scripture whenever possible, but can also make use of things that an average pastor - however grounded in the Bible - just wouldn't know about."


Well this has to do with the above post. But I would disgree and refer back to the original post for reply.

"I'm not saying psychologists can never get off track. I've heard of some using methods I wouldn't want anyone, believer or otherwise, to waste their time with. And again, I really, really believe in the power of Christian community, and in the study of Scripture. But I don't think that means we can't make good use of medical advances that have come about since Bible times as well'

Well I agree with medical advances , nutrition, excerise even TRT LOL!, ect. just not psychology.

How about what they say about alcoholics being a desease or a gene. The bible says it is a sin.

The church has almost accepted that certain sins are a gene. Those churches reject biblical authority.

What has psycology done. It "BLAMES"!

Psychology promotes blaming the parents. Psychiatrits tell people the reason the way they are is to blame the parents.

The bible says to honor and obey the parents. The parents are Gods ambassador to children. And parents meaning mom and dad. Not mommy and mommy and daddy and daddy.

A "Christian" psychiatrist would have to reject psychiatry. Otherwise they start re-defining sin. Then you start to redefine biblical authority. They want to deal with behavior and not the heart. The height of mans arrognace is to say we are a product of our environment. NO! It comes from within. Nothing outside of us defiles us. It comes from within!!.. We are depraved. Depravity is intended to show us how bad we are and that God still loves us. Depravity says you are spiritually dead and incapable of making a right decision. I would like to see a psychologist tell people this.LOL!

What I think is lacking with people is proper motivation.



6/16/12 12:27 AM
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Lahi
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Well you're painting psychology with some very broad strokes. Many insist on personal responsibility as being key to healing/recovery, I think any worth their salt do.

Any good 12 Step teacher would say the same as far as taking personal responsibility goes. What makes the most sense to me is addiction as a paradox. In part it is something inherited. Alcoholics' bodies have been shown to react differently to alcohol than a non-alcoholic's would. And many addicts and alcoholics come from terribly abusive and traumatic situations. The psychological craving, and the allergic reaction that takes place in their bodies after consuming alcohol, I think have been rightly defined as a disease.

On the flip side, to not take responsibilty for one's own disease is to make a choice to not get better. Of course there is a moral decision that has to be made. I would say this is pretty typical of sin in general, but we see it more severely, and terminally, in the addict of whatever kind.

I don't understand why you accept advances outside of the Bible in medicine, and not in the study of the mind. I saw nothing but good coming from the psychologists working with my autistic friends.

6/16/12 1:02 AM
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colubrid1
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I was married to an alcoholic which had that 'personality change" as soon as she had one drink. Her father, who read the bible all day and claimed to be a christian was an alcolhlic and died drinking himself to death.

Simply put. If we executed drunks they would just stop. The problem is proper motivation. Then they will be humbled quickly.

People reject Gods standard and convince themselves. Satan did that with Adam and Eve. To convince them that Gods standard is wrong.

If Mary the mother of Jesus was pregnaat today they would assign her counseling and psychotherapy- instead they were cast out by the families.

If you belong to God He will chastise you. Otherwise why do we go through sufferings? The things in this life? God has left us here suffering with us (work , bills) but He is her suffering with us. He left us here to endure this life to lead others to repentance. So God is with us through our sufferings so that we can lead others away from their eternal suffering. Satan wants to have us focus on other things in life so that we don't focus on ministry.

In the end we are here for #1 reason. To proclaim the gospel. Christ feels our pain and there is nothing on this earth for us except evangelism.

We are here to proclaim and preach the gospel.

6/16/12 1:55 AM
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Lahi
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Edited: 06/16/12 11:03 AM
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Remember, Jesus said 'it is the sick who need a doctor' when talking about the sinners he hung around with. Part of the Gospel is healing the broken, and setting captives free...not threatening them with death into an outward show of change. no doubt lots of people would stop doing lots of things under those conditions, but would the heart really be changed? That has to be the result of an encounter with love, not a response to threats of death.

Back to PTSD...is it an illness, or merely sin too? Schizophrenia? Autism? Or is it OK, as part of our Gospel proclamation, to use modern medicine and therapy to help these wounded people out?
6/16/12 2:00 AM
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Lahi
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I have seen some end-stage alcoholics I really think would take a bullet to get that last drink.
6/16/12 10:41 AM
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reverend john
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Keep clinging to your rigid moralism and you will continue to miss Christ and the life giving Spirit of grace

Oh Lord have mercy on my a sinner, I tell you now this man rose up justified

Rev Phone Post
6/16/12 2:03 PM
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Ali
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Edited: 07/03/12 11:55 PM
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colubrid1 - .... In hindsight it was wrong for me to post it w/o his permission. Thats why i said he will remain annonymous..

Just didn't think i would get all these questions as to who wrote it.


If I'm not mistaken, you got exactly one question as to who wrote it. I was wondering if it was yours, I was wondering if it was something you agreed with or wanted critique about, I was wondering how attached to it you (as OP) were.

Thanks for answering. There's so much wrong with it I hardly know where to begin; fortunately, both Lahi and rev john communicate better than I do in these areas, and got there first.

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