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Canada UnderGround >> Membership fee's?


6/22/12 12:34 PM
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wiley
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Long, Long ago, I was one of the first to get my OJA membership. I had questions about who and how people got appointed/elected, where my monies went to. If "insurance" covered me or the vendor for liability. Does the "insurance" pay me if I get injured during the event?, does it cover my medical costs for treatment if injured?, or does it cover the promoters in case of legal action by a competitor due to being injured?.

All good questions that never seem to get answered.

While I understand the need for insurance for tourneys, I find it odd that competitors are potenitally paying a promoters insurance fees for an injury/loss of life etc..., that protects them against that competitors claim.

Not really sure how that all works. It would be good to know for competitors prior to competing.
6/22/12 4:00 PM
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Dougie
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 TTTeh
6/23/12 9:36 AM
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Cory Dee
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Also why is this only an issue in Ontario? I've competed in places like NY, QC, and CA without having a mandatory association fee.
6/23/12 3:33 PM
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engineer
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When I brought up the issue on facebook, I was basically told that they are just an association with the goal of improving the quality of BJJ in the province. They didn't really confirm or deny having anything to do with insurance.

Someone else mentioned that a tournament organizer is not required to work with any of the associations (OJA and OGA are two that come to mind).

All of this leads me to think that their yearly membership is just a racket.
6/25/12 11:24 AM
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wiley
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Just like always, no response from anyone in the know. I've always had questions. I wish OJA's webpage was updated and it provided info about everything. How can someone be elected or appointed, can promoters/club owners sit on the board, are there viewable minutes from OJA meetings, who controls funds associated with BJJ/grappling. Who audits or does the book keeping? Are they still supported by governing bodies (province/federal/whoever.

So many questions yet nothing ever cleared up. I've been asking via this forum for a long time.
6/25/12 11:45 AM
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GringoBR
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Wiley

Long, Long ago, when you first asked those question most of them, or at least those that could be open in a forum (except where the money goes) were answered here.

The OJA is a non-profit organization with a board that take all the decisions. Last we have provided you a date for the annual meeting where we vote new people in and we take decisions, I dont know you personally but I can say for sure I did not see you there.


Engineer , any tournament can do whatever they want, they can come and run tournaments at anytime , without going with the OJA , OGA , or any kids of association.

The OJA run tournaments in Ontario and try to organize them in the province.

If anyone whats to know where the money goes, please feel free to go to the AGM meeting that is held annually.

6/25/12 5:05 PM
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Koc
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^^^^ Is there a reason "where the money goes" can't be discussed on this public forum?

Also, as potential customers (and that's what most people on this board are too you) wouldn't it be in your best interests to answer their questions about your product. (The tournament).

What is the date of 2012's general meeting? Is there an agenda available anywhere? And this may have been asked before, but what is the voting procedure? (Who can vote? How many votes a person needs? etc..)
6/25/12 8:18 PM
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GringoBR
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Hi Koc,

You see how this can be interpreted wrong, the question is about the OJA not about my tournament, all questions related to the tournament I would answer without a problem. It is just very curious that the only guys coming to this forum and explaining things are myself and other members from the OJA and no one else from other organizations.

I don't have the date for the 2012 AGM yet, and I don't know how the vote process is done. You can go on the website , there is a contact us page , send the OJA this questions. I will also ask them and try to bring the answers.

6/25/12 8:41 PM
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3dsmax
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IBJJF has membership fees and so does Abu Dhabi Pro organization to my knowledge. So the whole comment about only Ontario being "racketed" is simply not true.

Why is everybody so concerned about 25 dollars per year? I am not saying that it doesn't matter out of principle but there is way more talk about those 25 dollars than anything else in the sport.

By the way, there are different kinds of insurance and promoters do have the choice of protecting themselves from being sued or the competitors in case of an injury. As far as which one is used for any given event would be anybody's guess. However, it is my understanding that OJA's insurance is supposed to pay directly to the competitor if he/she gets hurt. If anybody can confirm this it would be great.
6/25/12 9:13 PM
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aguzzi
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I want to weigh in on this.

The OGA and OJA are two fantastic associations. I never thought so until I got involved with them and understood what they were doing with the money.

They are taking on complete liability by putting these tournaments on. They literally spend money which is not cheap in insuring a complete year's worth of tournaments for it's members.

Check out this site: http://www.gamedayinsurance.ca/

This is basically where most of the money is going.

"Sports associations (provincial and/or national)

As a governing body you have many different insurance considerations for covering your training and competitions. Some coverages to consider are liability, accident, Directors and Officers, Errors and Omissions, Property and excess travel medical. You may require coverage for activities around the world. GameDay understands the nature of sport associations. We can help with your insurance needs. "

Not only are these people awesome enough to spend so much money in getting those tournament director's insurance on their events but they do it for them for free, they just want the membership fees to pay the insurance mostly.

Their is probably left over money in the OJA and OGA however I do not know and I do not care. Even though this might might not be known they are actually both non-profit associations and both act accordingly. Even in non-profits people pay themselves salaries but this should be granted being how much work goes into all the insurance underwriting on the venues and tournaments. Regardless the insurance does not come cheap I just want to point out again, it does not come cheap whatsoever, especially when you include the juveniles into the picture.

Both associations also spend parts of the money on helping each tournament director dress his show up. Notice how the OJA for example always use the same mats? Or how both associations use the same scoreboards and scales at all their events.

...

This would be a decent occasion to tell you that Quebec is supposedly in the midst of setting up its first association to run the province, Association de Grappling du Quebec, the AGQ.
6/25/12 10:51 PM
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JM
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I like to part with my money about as much as anyone else, but, I guess when I really think about it...it doesn't really matter where the money is going.

They say pay this much to compete, and we agree. That's all there really is to it. It doesn't matter how the membership fees get spent. If they are paying for insurance, reinvesting it to pay for new/more mats, making a profit, it doesn't matter.

If we don't like paying a certain amount to compete in tournaments, we definitely have the ability to petition for more inexpensive rates. But I don't think we really need a breakdown of how money is spent.

That's just my opinion...it doesn't mean I'm right.
6/26/12 2:09 PM
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club kozak
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For the NAGA to be held in Montreal, one has to pay to OJA fee for the comp. Montreal is in Quebec..why is that??
6/26/12 3:16 PM
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wiley
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You must be pay because the Great Oz, said so!

I would ask what health benefits and coverage you have while competing in Quebec? Do you have coverage for loss of pay while participating in a sporting activity, If injured and you go on work benefits will they top you up to 100%, Whats the typical wait time from a claim by a competitor put in until they recieve some monies/medical costs etc...

Will they cover emergency dental costs in QC if its needed? or any portions of emergency dental care not covered by a benefits plan. Do they have the necessary forms on hand or available if such a thing occurs?

These are things people should think about prior to competing and paying fees.

Who pays your mortgage, buys food, looks after your kids, buys kids clothing etc.. while off and only getting a portion of your income.

All hypothetical I know but even if theres a 1 in 1,000,000 chance of it happening, IT CAN HAPPEN!

THATS right your $25 pays for their insurance/legal team against yourself if a claim is made.......
6/26/12 5:25 PM
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GringoBR
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club kozak , this event in Quebec has nothing to do with the OJA, I am sorry but this is not true. The Ontario Jiu Jitsu Association only runs events in Ontario and we only do Jiu Jitsu events.
6/26/12 5:54 PM
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Caddock
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Someone should call and ask them to edit their event page then as there appears to be a typo:

http://nagafighter.com/index.php?module=eventinformationpage/256

"OGA SANCTIONED EVENT
This tournament will be sanctioned by the Ontario Grappling Alliance. The tournament will use NAGA scoring and will adhere to OGA rules concerning illegal techniques (i.e. heel hook being illegal). The illegal techniques can be downloaded from the NAGA website. You will need to be an OGA member in order to compete. OGA memberships will be available at the door for $10 (one day membership) or $35 (year membership)."
6/26/12 5:54 PM
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Caddock
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Edited: 06/26/12 5:54 PM
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double double, toil and trouble
6/26/12 6:42 PM
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watching from the sidelines
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Caddock and Club Kozak, the OGA is the Ontario Grapplina Alliance. The OJA is the Ontario Jiu Jitsu Association which are 2 completely different organizatons. Perhaps someone from the OGA can answer your question about why you have to be an OGA member when the tournament is in Quebec?
6/26/12 6:43 PM
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watching from the sidelines
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Caddock and Club Kozak, the OGA is the Ontario Grapplina Alliance. The OJA is the Ontario Jiu Jitsu Association which are 2 completely different organizatons. Perhaps someone from the OGA can answer your question about why you have to be an OGA member when the tournament is in Quebec?
6/26/12 6:44 PM
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watching from the sidelines
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Caddock and Club Kozak, the OGA is the Ontario Grapplina Alliance. The OJA is the Ontario Jiu Jitsu Association which are 2 completely different organizatons. Perhaps someone from the OGA can answer your question about why you have to be an OGA member when the tournament is in Quebec?
6/26/12 6:45 PM
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watching from the sidelines
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Caddock and Club Kozak, the OGA is the Ontario Grapplina Alliance. The OJA is the Ontario Jiu Jitsu Association which are 2 completely different organizatons. Perhaps someone from the OGA can answer your question about why you have to be an OGA member when the tournament is in Quebec?
6/26/12 7:39 PM
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aguzzi
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The NAGA event is currently being ran by the OGA.

There is a 95% chance the event ends up sanctioned by the AGQ in Quebec in replacement of the OGA in Quebec. This move is suppose to occur soon.

NAGA needs sanctioning to hold their event at McGill University and to perform in Quebec I believe.
6/26/12 10:52 PM
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Cory Dee
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3dsmax - IBJJF has membership fees and so does Abu Dhabi Pro organization to my knowledge. So the whole comment about only Ontario being "racketed" is simply not true.


I have competed in the world's in California and the Montreal open and have not been required to join any association. I do not have first hand experience with the world pro.

I believe both require black belts to join, as an attempt at proving legitimacy and lineage (which is retarded, results will speak for themselves, regardless of who your instructor is).
6/26/12 11:32 PM
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GringoBR
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Cory Dee

The IBJJF implemented last year that all Brown and black belts must be affiliated and their respective academies, for this year they added Juniors and the idea is to add more divisions as time passes, so probably in 1 or 2 years everyone will need to be affiliated with the IBJJF including the academies.

For all purple , blue and white belts competing at the Toronto Open this year they will not asked to be members.

Abu Dhabi did the same this year.
6/27/12 3:06 PM
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engineer
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You know what, I talked my fair share of crap about OJA and the membership fee, and while I still don't understand exactly where my money goes, at least you guys put out great tournaments and you are present on facebook and forums like these.

The same cannot be said about OGA. I had to pull out of GQ due to an injury and I'm waiting for exactly one week for someone to inform me how and when I can expect a refund. No words from them at all! So now when I get my money back I will definitely avoid OGA events in the future.
6/27/12 6:20 PM
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BALEIA
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engineer, the organizers are still in post wrap up mode from Grapplers Quest. Despite having the disclaimer "NO REFUNDS" as listed on the registration site, they will gladly refund you. If you emailed them previously, you will get your refund shortly, you have my word.

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