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JKD UnderGround >> Wing Chun (current and former students)


6/22/12 1:25 PM
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Kimbos Lice
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Edited: 06/22/12 1:36 PM
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I've recently started practicing wing chun in Houston and wanted to know people's views on the art. (only current or former students) both positive and negative, but only from those that have taken it.
6/24/12 11:26 PM
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Majic Sam
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Check out Paul Vunak and All Orr videos.
6/26/12 11:54 AM
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Kimbos Lice
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When I was reading others posting on the forums, there were a lot of people posting negative comments regarding Wing Chun. Now I know that none of those people actually practice Wing Chun. Damn UG! Phone Post
6/26/12 1:36 PM
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Stickgrappler
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MMA is really popular for the past 2 decades.

WCK's critique and for many TMA also is it's not trained realistically.

If you are looking to WCK for health or to propagate the style/system, then that's cool. If you are looking for it for self-defense, then check how it's taught/trained. If you looking for it to compete in MMA, well, train MMA then.

Although various factors like cost, how close/far you have to travel to the kwoon, etc may be a deciding factor in your case.
6/26/12 1:37 PM
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Stickgrappler
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good luck in your training!
6/26/12 3:44 PM
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Kimbos Lice
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Well thank you. I've already been training for a while, just wanted other people's thoughts on their experience practicing Wing Chun. Has nothing to do with MMA. I love MMA, but not interested in taking it. Phone Post
6/26/12 4:33 PM
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BostonRedBaron
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I have trained in 2 different systems of WCK and was an instructor in one. I left both for political reasons as its not worth the b.s. and kool-aide.

As for its effectiveness I rarely if ever use many of the techniques I learned as most do not work in high adrenal states. Maybe cause they don't train them in high adrenal states or they only are meant to work in drills for fun. In either case, i was only interested in learning a functional system.

I find that a good MMA school that has an FMA or JKD instructor that train alive (Dogbrothers, Vunak, Matt Thorton etc) is much better suited for realistic self-defense, if that is your goal.

I agree with what Stickgrappler said as there is not a lot of "Alan Orrs" out there that train WCK realistically. Understanding how your body/mind works in a high adrenal state is more important.

Good luck in your search.
- "Fight how you train, train how you fight"

7/8/12 10:21 PM
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HEMAN
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I found wing chun training to be dead. I do this...you do that. When I tried it in full contact sparring I got owned. I saw my classmates get owned. My Sifu and his Sifus never competed.
7/17/12 9:25 AM
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Kimbos Lice
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HEMAN - I found wing chun training to be dead. I do this...you do that. When I tried it in full contact sparring I got owned. I saw my classmates get owned. My Sifu and his Sifus never competed.
You most likely didn't go to a very good school. I've learned so much more there in two months than what I learned in karate in two years. (not dissing karate) Phone Post
7/18/12 9:03 AM
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WidespreadPanic
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WC is worthwhile IF and ONLY IF it is layered on top of a good base system, such as BJJ, Judo, Boxing, MT, Sambo, etc. If you are proficient at one of those as your BASE art, you can learn things from WC you can apply and functionalize. But as a sole base system, WC rarely is effective.

Some people have forced it into an effective system but if you really look, they are high attribute guys.

In addition you have to consider the venue, and the type of opponent. A highly attribute based guy using WC in a Bar fight against a very untrained guy may or may not pull it off. Don't be fooled that it is a low-attribute based system suitable for females to use. It is not. (BJJ is, though since females can use leg strength and leverage if properly trained).

FWIW.


7/18/12 1:27 PM
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El_Clap
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Who in Houston do you train with?
7/19/12 8:54 AM
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HEMAN
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Kimbos Lice - 
HEMAN - I found wing chun training to be dead. I do this...you do that. When I tried it in full contact sparring I got owned. I saw my classmates get owned. My Sifu and his Sifus never competed.
You most likely didn't go to a very good school. I've learned so much more there in two months than what I learned in karate in two years. (not dissing karate) Phone Post


Learning is one thing...but putting it into SPARRING is another. If you can't spar with it then you are screwed. That's why I found boxing to be superior than any applications appied by wing chun. The only thing I got out of wing chun is the shadow kick or front snap kick to the groin which is devastating when someone steps to you.
7/19/12 9:48 PM
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Kimbos Lice
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El_Clap - Who in Houston do you train with?
Backyard Wing Tsun in Houston Phone Post
7/19/12 9:50 PM
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Kimbos Lice
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WidespreadPanic - WC is worthwhile IF and ONLY IF it is layered on top of a good base system, such as BJJ, Judo, Boxing, MT, Sambo, etc. If you are proficient at one of those as your BASE art, you can learn things from WC you can apply and functionalize. But as a sole base system, WC rarely is effective.

Some people have forced it into an effective system but if you really look, they are high attribute guys.

In addition you have to consider the venue, and the type of opponent. A highly attribute based guy using WC in a Bar fight against a very untrained guy may or may not pull it off. Don't be fooled that it is a low-attribute based system suitable for females to use. It is not. (BJJ is, though since females can use leg strength and leverage if properly trained).

FWIW.


And how long have you been training Wing Chun? Phone Post
7/20/12 4:06 AM
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HEMAN
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Kimbo...after 2 months have you sparred?
7/20/12 10:10 AM
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El_Clap
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I used to train with Alex years ago.

I thought Wing Chun was fun, and as long as you're having fun, then learn what you can.

If you want to be able to fight though, then you're going to have to fight, and not just against wing chun guys. I don't find that fights go the way most wing chun guys think they're going to go. The chain punch never ended fights like I thought it would. Not only that, nobody would ever engage my arms like they did in wing chun class. Boxers would cut angles pick me apart. Kick boxers would kick me apart. I could never make it work. Now that I train other stuff, I use it all the time, or rather pieces of it.
7/20/12 10:26 AM
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Kimbos Lice
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El_Clap - I used to train with Alex years ago.

I thought Wing Chun was fun, and as long as you're having fun, then learn what you can.

If you want to be able to fight though, then you're going to have to fight, and not just against wing chun guys. I don't find that fights go the way most wing chun guys think they're going to go. The chain punch never ended fights like I thought it would. Not only that, nobody would ever engage my arms like they did in wing chun class. Boxers would cut angles pick me apart. Kick boxers would kick me apart. I could never make it work. Now that I train other stuff, I use it all the time, or rather pieces of it.
Thanks a lot. That was the most helpful information I have come across. Do you still live in Houston and still practice today? Phone Post
7/20/12 12:36 PM
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El_Clap
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MMA now. Mostly jujitsu/wrestling.
7/21/12 2:32 AM
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Kimbos Lice
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El_Clap - MMA now. Mostly jujitsu/wrestling.
Nice. Always love me some JuJuitsu. Phone Post
8/3/12 5:45 AM
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shen
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I'm not an "expert" in Wing Chung but have done a little "pure" W.C. & some in JF/JKD.

Wing chun IS fun --UNLESS you spar with it-- then it becomes a clusterfu@k. The only way to really enjoy wing chun is to NOT spar.

If you want to spar, go to a boxing gym. What you learn will be INFINITELY more helpful & practical. Trying to make W.C. Practical & workable is foolish --like guys trying to make Aikido "street effective."

Enjoy W.C. for what it is, but if you can't and want to spar boxing is simply better in every regard no matter what they tell you.





8/3/12 11:45 AM
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Siciliano
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Coming from someone who did boxing and Muay Thai for quite a long time prior to dabbling in some Wing Chun, I find the reference points helped me (a bit) with setting up proper positions for the Thai clinch.

it's like bodybuilding (disclaimer: I don't do bodybuilding) for a lack of a better analogy. Muay Thai/Boxing is the hardwork and regular training. Wing chun is the protein supplement or creatine.

I also kinda notied that WC style trapping is more closely linked with swordplay/fencing like Destrezza/Ilustrisimo/English broadsword rather than empty hands.
8/8/12 7:55 PM
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Siciliano
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Let me rephrase my analogy.

Squats/Deadlifts/Snatches/Kettlebells is to Muay Thai, Boxing, Savate, etc as Curls/Bench Presses/leg extensions are to Wing Chun.

IMO, WC helps in refining your clinch and entry game but you'll never get anywhere nowadays without the boxing/kickboxing base.
8/12/12 5:04 AM
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shen
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Actually Fracis Fong's approach is cool. Did a seminar with him once.

He does WC & Muay Thai & grappling and you have to do all three in his system of "Wing chun".

8/14/12 11:43 AM
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Siciliano
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Interesting. Heard the same stuff about Francis Fong from so many people.
11/27/12 2:29 AM
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FatBuddha
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Trained almost daily with Sifu Francis for 4 years during college. If you want to really learn, check out his best student Sifu Eddie Camden in Atlanta. Another one of his (and Sifu Eddie's) top students is Sifu Calbert Strawn in Nashville. Good luck.

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