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HolyGround >> Pastor Josh=Everything I hate about Christians


7/17/12 1:12 PM
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JitsuGuy
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Edited: 07/17/12 1:15 PM
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Yeah, it kinda undoes Romans 2:11 doesn't it? I mean, you've been selected by God to witness supernatural proof of His existence.

If that's not favoritism, I honestly don't know what is.

These are our options. The bible is wrong about God showing favoritism, God changed his mind about favoirtism since the bible was written, you're lying, you were quite possibly not in the best mental state during these events, you are stretching things to make them seem more than they are, you're lying.

We tell lies all the time and don't know it... I'm not accusing you of intentially trying to mislead, however, that is possible. But it's been proven time and time again, that even witnesses to crimes all over have seen something that did not in fact, really take place. So call me just a tad skeptical.
7/17/12 1:26 PM
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DyingBreed
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There is nothing I can say that will change your mind because you have obviously made up your mind about me.


Didn't exaggerate or add anything...i actually left a lot out for two reasons...

1- didn't feel like going into it

2- didn't want to waste time on something that possibly wouldn't be believed. And looks like I made the right choice.


Sorry, I'll shut up now Phone Post
7/17/12 1:33 PM
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JitsuGuy
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Using your own bible, I'm required to come to those conclusions aren't I?

Or are you telling me that having evidence of God, delivered by God is not God showing favoritism?

Or am I misunderstanding such a simple concept as favoritism?
7/17/12 1:59 PM
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DyingBreed
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JitsuGuy - Using your own bible, I'm required to come to those conclusions aren't I?

Or are you telling me that having evidence of God, delivered by God is not God showing favoritism?

Or am I misunderstanding such a simple concept as favoritism?
I actually believe God wants everyone to experience what they need to experience to give themselves to him. I don't think he expects full submission from a person without giving them something to help them do just that, whatever it may be, whatever experience that is needed. It is possibly different for every person. I was only telling my own personal experience. The reason I am tempted to think my experiences would work for everyone is because it worked so well for me, during a time in my life when I didn't believe God existed.


Communication is so frustrating. Even if we are together, you are over there, and I am over here. I never know if my words are taken as intended because I am not in you, and vice versa. Phone Post
7/17/12 2:46 PM
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reverend john
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I don't think you are a bad Christian. In fact what you are going through seems to me to be part of a great spiritual struggle that is part of Christianity. Christ on the cross crying out Where are you, why have you left me. St John of the Cross and St. Teresa de Avalon and the dark night of the soul. I think you are doing well my friend, whether you ultimately wind up in one camp or another you are truthful and honest, and strive to be just. What more could be asked of you?

rev
7/17/12 3:38 PM
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JitsuGuy
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I really want it to be true. Sincerely, I do. I'd like for there to be a place of eternal bliss and rejoicing after this, who doesn't? I'd like to believe this entire life experience is shaping us so we have a true appreciation for what lies ahead. And ultimately, that may be all I've got... A desire to hope for more, where love wins, ignorance is corrected by truth and light overcomes the dark and nobody loses.

At some point, a person has to hope for something. For some of us, that desire to hope and believe far exceeds that of our desire to understand.

Right now, I'm just not to that point. But it's after a long-time devotion of myself and the youth of my physical existence to something that I don't feel contributed anything back to me except for a heavy burden of guilt and since God never corrected it, the only way to release myself of this guilt-ridden existence was to disconnect from it.

... And I'm exceedingly happier because of it.
7/17/12 3:41 PM
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reverend john
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well I am glad you have peace, guilt is a killer

rev
7/18/12 3:00 PM
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zealot66
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PastorJosh - 
zealot66 -  Tell me pastor Josh, what evil sin am I committing? Why did I escape the death clutches of your christianity? It surely has to be some secret immorality that I desired that could now engage in. Oh, how I love being wickedly boring. 
When the gospel apologizes to you about your sin, I will. Phone Post

 I have no wish to have an apology from you or your gospel. And it is YOUR gospel. You either don't communicate very well on the internet or your are a true jerk. Your ego is so ingrained in your gospel that you have warped the Gospel to fit in with YOU, not the other way around. 
7/23/12 4:21 PM
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CJJScout
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man, oh man
8/17/12 12:06 PM
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boooring
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reverend john - yes, he of course follows the direct unpolluted stream directly from the apostles

rev

Whoa! That sounds like an angry non-denominationalist with an enthusiast slant talking.

Where did that come from?

8/20/12 7:06 PM
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micmac
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Ridgeback - Anyway, personal attacks aside, my point was that Fred Phelps, the Mormons, Independent Fundamentalist Baptists, Roman Catholics, Christian Anarchists, and Shakers are all called "Christian" and that is a problem since they believe and practice some radically different things and describe their gods in radically different ways.  

My point was that instead of being surprised at the sheer differences in belief and practice between Pastor Joh and the  Rev, if we started with the premise that they have different religions it would make sense why they are so different on here in terms of where they are coming from, and why they are almost always talking past each other.
Isn't this more about the differences in individuals' interpretation of Jesus' teachings rather than the difference in the various Christian denominations?

Even in a single church led by a single pastor, wouldn't there be at least a slightly different understanding/response by every church member to the preaching of a single chapter/verse by that pastor? Phone Post
8/20/12 8:56 PM
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Grakman
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I think you'll find individual differences in belief among various church members, in so far as any of them have actually thought about what it is they actually believe that is. But there are true difference in belief between the major denominations which fundamentally (no pun intended) effect one's worldview and whether one is 'saved' or not, e.g. some denominations believe baptism by water is required for salvation, others believe it is symbolic. Some think that in praying to saints or the Virgin Mary one is actually praying to demons (!). Most of them are united in their belief that homosexuality is a sin but some churches are now saying that homosexuals can be Christian and be saved, while the others say they're not 'real Christians' and are doomed to Hell. These are denominational issues, part of their 'platforms' if you will. So you will indeed have individuals who hold to private interpretations within in any congregation but even the denominations themselves will not agree that they're all Christian.
8/20/12 9:11 PM
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micmac
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Grakman - I think you'll find individual differences in belief among various church members, in so far as any of them have actually thought about what it is they actually believe that is. But there are true difference in belief between the major denominations which fundamentally (no pun intended) effect one's worldview and whether one is 'saved' or not, e.g. some denominations believe baptism by water is required for salvation, others believe it is symbolic. Some think that in praying to saints or the Virgin Mary one is actually praying to demons (!). Most of them are united in their belief that homosexuality is a sin but some churches are now saying that homosexuals can be Christian and be saved, while the others say they're not 'real Christians' and are doomed to Hell. These are denominational issues, part of their 'platforms' if you will. So you will indeed have individuals who hold to private interpretations within in any congregation but even the denominations themselves will not agree that they're all Christian.
Good points. Jesus and the bible are the only common denominators between all of the various Christian traditions. On all of these issues the bible seems clear to me. You mentioned the example of homosexuality - the bible tells us it is a sin...but that is just one sin in the bible, and none are considered acceptable to God, and EVERYONE is a sinner....so why couldn't a repentant homosexual go to heaven the same as a repentant thief or adulterer? In this example, many Christians go crazy about all things gay but there is nothing in the bible (if they actually read it) telling Christians to go nuts over homosexuality while ignoring sinful pride, legalism, failing to love your neighbor etc. Whether this is the tradition of a particular Christian denomination or a single church or an individual, it started when one person misread the bible. Phone Post
8/21/12 8:54 AM
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CJJScout
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There is a difference between struggling with a sin you may have and saying that that same particular sin (pride, adultery, legalism, homosexuality, etc.) is ok. All sin is an offense to God, but there is grace for those that repent.
8/21/12 9:59 AM
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boooring
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Homosexuality sends you to hell no more than heterosexuality sends you to heaven.

Sin does not send you to hell. It's self-righteousness about sin that sends you to hell.

The person of Jesus has been hijacked by many "denominations" to where the phrase "I believe in Jesus" basically means nothing. You have to ask "which Jesus?" and have that term defined before moving forward with the conversation.

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