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HolyGround >> It's Gone...


9/12/12 8:35 AM
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JitsuGuy
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Grakman -  So all those hospitals, charities, schools, wells, farms, etc built by religious people to help the poor somehow empower people at the top?

You know that's not true. Phone Post

They're just people who genuinely believe in the product they're selling.

And I'm not saying no good comes from Christianity. That producing good and being good isn't evidence of a divine truth or divine creator who is interested in our lives.
9/12/12 10:41 AM
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770mdm
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Reading the bible as faith as opposed to reason leaves a void in someone searching for answers.  It has to because faith requires a leap from logic and reason.  So then the Bible, G-d & G-d's message becomes something someone else is peddling as opposed to a blueprint form humanity to live by.  Reason displays ontological truths as opposed to fancy assertians which can be manipulated to fit any structure.  It's the manipulation people feel.  It's reading the Bible as reason people crave.  Let the Bible stand and validate itself through reason and lifes truths emerge. 
9/12/12 11:04 AM
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JitsuGuy
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Cappytime - 
JitsuGuy -
Cappytime - 
JitsuGuy - I don't see God. I see the real world, with laws and order that doesn't require a super-natural force to exist.

I see inustice rule, I see corruption rule, I see evil rule. It kind of undoes the existence of an "all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving" creator.

I guess I got to the point in my life where faith in the unobservable seemed juvinile.
In Exodus, the Isrealites saw the power of God with their own eyes. They saw God smite Egypt, they saw Mana from heaven and they saw the Red Sea parted. When Moses stayed on the mountain too long they made a golden calf because they had no faith. How are we supposed to have faith when we see none of this? Phone Post

The bible proves nothing... And faith or aka "gullibility" isn't such a great measuring stick to determine the worth of an individual.

"Hey, this guy is such a giver of himself and his resources and respected among his community but he doesn't believe in the almighty Spaghetti god!!!! Let's torture his ass!!!! Yeah!!!!!!!"

You see how stupid that is? Because of what a person believes or doesn't believe, religion determines their worth - and not based on who they are, but because of an idea or a lack of an idea within their head.... Hey, if God can torture a person for the way they believe it certainly gives license to those in the Church to treat unbelievers as lesser beings...

Don't you see how divisive that is? Don't you see how dangerous that is?



You're preaching to the choir. We are on the same side here. Phone Post

Ahh, I see where you're coming from now... Makes more sense what you said. Sorry about that. =)
9/12/12 1:01 PM
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Grakman
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JitsuGuy - 
Grakman -  So all those hospitals, charities, schools, wells, farms, etc built by religious people to help the poor somehow empower people at the top?

You know that's not true. Phone Post

They're just people who genuinely believe in the product they're selling.

And I'm not saying no good comes from Christianity. That producing good and being good isn't evidence of a divine truth or divine creator who is interested in our lives.

Well...not exactly. What you said was: "Religion is a control-mechanism used to enslave others minds, finances, time and energy for the profit of those at the top. It's essentially a pyramid scheme."

And that's what I replied to. In that post, you didn't say anything about people doing good does not constitute proof of a divine creator. My post was regarding whether or not religion is a controol mechanism / pyramid scheme that benefits those at the top.
9/12/12 1:08 PM
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JitsuGuy
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Grakman - 
JitsuGuy - 
Grakman -  So all those hospitals, charities, schools, wells, farms, etc built by religious people to help the poor somehow empower people at the top?

You know that's not true. Phone Post

They're just people who genuinely believe in the product they're selling.

And I'm not saying no good comes from Christianity. That producing good and being good isn't evidence of a divine truth or divine creator who is interested in our lives.

Well...not exactly. What you said was: "Religion is a control-mechanism used to enslave others minds, finances, time and energy for the profit of those at the top. It's essentially a pyramid scheme."

And that's what I replied to. In that post, you didn't say anything about people doing good does not constitute proof of a divine creator. My post was regarding whether or not religion is a controol mechanism / pyramid scheme that benefits those at the top.

And my response still applies. You can do good, but still enslave people's thinking. Here's some food you hungry fuck (good act) now live in terror the rest of your life or burn in the fires of an everlasting hell!!!! (mind now enslaved)
9/12/12 1:11 PM
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JitsuGuy
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It's a business.

http://new.exchristian.net/2012/09/the-biggest-business-ever.html

9/12/12 5:36 PM
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Grakman
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Jitsu, we'll have to agree to disagree. Once a person has crossed that Cynic Rubicon, it's hard to discuss things like this. What you're saying does not apply to every religion in the world, it doesn't apply to every Christian denomination, it just doesn't apply across the board. It's too sweeping in it's generalization. Posting a link from an ex-Christian site isn't really going to prove anything, other than that you're searching out material to support your new world view. Nothing wrong with that, we all need reinforcement and validation to help us along our way. I do hope that you are able to find some peace and happiness in your new worldview though, and I mean that sincerely.
9/21/12 1:52 PM
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770mdm
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 Grakman: Well...not exactly. What you said was: "Religion is a control-mechanism used to enslave others minds, finances, time and energy for the profit of those at the top. It's essentially a pyramid scheme."

Me:  http://www.scribd.com/doc/82790739/The-Case-for-God
This article shows how the Hebrew Scriptures is the ultimate Anti-Pyramid scheme. 

http://www.amazon.com/Created-Equal-Ancient-Political-Thought/dp/0195374703
Joshua Berman engages the text of the Hebrew Bible from a novel perspective -- as a document of social and political thought. He proposes that the Pentateuch can be read as the earliest prescription on record for the establishment of an egalitarian polity. The blueprint that emerges is that of a society that would stand in stark contrast to the social orders found in the surrounding cultures of the ancient Near East -- Egypt, Mesopotamia, Ugarit, and the Hittite Empire -- where the hierarchical structure of the polity was centered on the figure of the king and his retinue. Berman shows that the Pentateuch's egalitarian ideal is articulated in comprehensive fashion and is expressed in its theology, politics, economics, use of technologies of communication, and in its narrative literature. Throughout, he invokes parallels from the modern period as heuristic devices to illuminate the ancient developments under study. Thus, for example, the constitutional principles in the Book of Deuteronomy are examined in the light of principles espoused by Montesquieu, and the rise of the novel in 18th-century England serves to illuminate the advent of new modes of storytelling in biblical narrative.
10/6/12 3:36 AM
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SKARHEAD
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prof - 
JitsuGuy,

I was going to write more but I'm not sure you are still around. So just a question:

Given you wrote: "I just got tired of having faith in things that - based on this world, were similar to having faith in unicorns or pink elephants."

Why do you still hope God is real? Can you not see the positive in giving up beliefs in unreal things for reality?

Cheers,

Prof.

Why would someone hope God is real ? is this a serious question or are you just being your usual contrary self...If a close minded athiest has to go ouyt of hios way to not understand why a world with a God is infinitely better than one without.

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