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7/3/12 2:31 PM
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Underground Blog
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UGBG (Underground Blog Guest Blogger) Ian Peterkin offers a historical perspective on Guida vs Maynard. Read more of Ian's work at thelivershot.net.

“Come on and fight!”

That’s what Jack Dempsey screamed in the ring in 1927, frustrated with the defensive style of his opponent, Gene Tunney. Dempsey was revered for his power punches and willingness to exchange. Tunney, not exactly a fan favorite, was a thinking man, and out-pointed Dempsey in their two fights.

Similar displays of frustration and disgust were evident in the Nick Diaz/Carlos Condit and Clay Guida/Gray Maynard fights. Nick Diaz slapped Carlos Condit in an effort to make him exchange, and Gray Maynard dropped his hands in order to make Guida do the same. Following both fights, the UG lit up with fans decrying the game planning of Greg Jackson and his protégés. Some of that criticism is warranted, but so is Jackson’s position on the matter. He insists that the game plan in both fights was to stick and move. Rather than witnessing “good footwork,” as Kenny Florian said about Guida/Maynard, fans literally watched one fighter run after another. Footwork is about quick in-and-outs and circling, not making your opponent do an all out sprint.

Jack Dempsey once had this to say of boxing: “You’re in there for three-minute rounds with gloves on and a referee. That’s not real fighting.” What he meant by this is that it is fighting, but also a sporting contest. The same can be said of MMA. The sport is governed by athletic commissions, and there are certain rules by which participants and their coaches must abide. Greg Jackson is fully aware of that. He implements game plans for his fighters to win on points. Sometimes game planning makes for ugly fights.

Perhaps no one was more upset with the UFC on FX 4 main event than Gray Maynard. After the fight, Maynard said, "A couple steps, I understand that. You’re still in the pocket. You’re still there, able to hit me. But you’ve got to understand, it’s a fight, still. You can’t just go to the end of the cage and then back to the other end and back to the other end the whole time. You’ve got to give me a chance, too." However, Clay Guida said, “I think mixed martial arts is, the guy who gets hit the least, usually is the victor.”

Who is right?

The objective in any fight is to inflict damage, while mitigating injury to one’s self. Did Clay Guida do that? Somewhat. Was it fun to watch? No. Dan Miragliotta, the referee for the fight, threatened to take away a point from Guida. Despite all his movement and short jabs, Guida lost by split decision, so the judges made the right decision—this time. For his efforts in the cage, Guida received deafening boos and will most likely find himself on the bottom of a future card. The UFC brass is not wont to rewarding “boring” performances. So, how exactly is Greg Jackson ruining the sport?


7/3/12 2:35 PM
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KevinMcAllister
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Judges are, and Greg exploits their incompetence. Phone Post
7/3/12 2:39 PM
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inf0
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lameplans gotta go..
7/3/12 2:41 PM
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bastion
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Is Greg Jackson ruining the game? No. As the author said--it's a sport. A sport that has winners and losers. Standing and trading power shots with Gray Maynard is a good way to become a loser. Fighting smart is... well, fighting smart. I don't need to see a Takayama/Don Frye hockey fight every match. I can appreciate smart, strategic fight. That said, Clay didn't fight smart--he ran. Stick and move without the stick... all you're left with is move.
7/3/12 2:42 PM
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LastMinuteReplacement
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yes
7/3/12 2:42 PM
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samcarr6
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Yes Phone Post
7/3/12 2:44 PM
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Violence
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Nah, if anything, he's making it better. He's exposing how flawed the scoring system is.
7/3/12 2:44 PM
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subwrassler
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NarlyPersianDude - lol, no Greg Jackson is not ruining mma, that dont even make sense. He is a gameplan master, what is ruining mma is the scoring and judging. I mean it is crystal clear, that is the number one problem in this sport. Anytime a fight is close, and it goes to the judges, I have no confidence the judges will get it right, if they do, I feel lucky. And that is not how it is suppossed to be.




For example, Maldanado is 0-3 perhaps in the ufc, due only to bad scoring and judging, when in reality, I look at him as being 3 and 0 in the ufc. Feel me


homey got shafted in that last fight fa sho
7/3/12 2:45 PM
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subwrassler
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KevinMcAllister - Judges are, and Greg exploits their incompetence. Phone Post


interesting.
cannot disagree.
7/3/12 2:47 PM
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Big Pun
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It's sure going to be hard to promote future fights when your past performances indicate a runner instead of a fighter. They may be happy to eek out those judges decisions, but in the end it reflects very poorly on the strategy and fight team as a whole. I know in their current form it would be very hard as a matchmaker or promoter to justify putting a Jackson fighter very far up on the fight card. If they don't get a little more reliable about putting some guys in there who are willing to engage and not just play keep away for points, they will be permanent mid-carders or undercards. Just from my persepctive and recent interviews I would have a very hard time justifying any top card or main event for a fighter or team with the admitted strategy of running from the fight to score points. As a promoter you want people standing or on the edge of their seats for the top spots on the cards. You want them to go home feeling fullfilled that they just watched some entertaining bouts. Good strategy or bad, it makes for very slow and boring fights. Which costs the promotion and the fighter in the end. Personally I really don't care to see Guida again at this point. I'd rather see a fighter than a tactician.
7/3/12 2:48 PM
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DJmixmasterMobbie
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" Clay Guida said, “I think mixed martial arts is, the guy who gets hit the least, usually is the victor.” "

No Clay, shut the fuck up. That is the exact reason no one wants to see your ass fight.

The guy who does more damage usually wins the fight-- the aggressor, the fighter that tries to FINISH, not just survive.

You could run around for 5 rounds like usual and not get hit once, does that make u the victor? No it makes u look like a punk bitch putting on a boring ass fight that no one wants to see or be apart of.
7/3/12 3:08 PM
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buckshot44
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Is Jackson ruining MMA? No. Is he ruining fighters? Perhaps. Who would have thought Clay Guida would ever be in a "boring" fight? That clearly would never have happened without master Jackson and his "gameplan". Guida used to be one of the most exciting fighters out there.
7/3/12 3:39 PM
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AZGnP
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THANK YOU sly! I've been saying that forever. Guida has always been a "top position dominant" wrestler who was usually on the bathroom brake crew. Phone Post
7/3/12 3:44 PM
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ranier wolfcastle
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purely for lols, i dont really think gj is ruining anything
7/3/12 3:45 PM
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Masakyst
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Jacksons fighters have a higher finishing rate than the average fighter, so no.
7/3/12 4:01 PM
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redeye2000
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the fighters of greg jackson are disrespecting their oppenents.

imagine how hard grey mannard has trained for that fight. then he is there to fight and guida runsaway the whole time. it is simply disrepcting all the time grey has put in his training camp.

when your a fighter your there to fight. that is what the people pay for. people dont pay for watching a track and field display.

if i was a promoter i would not care if you win or lose. i would also add that in the contract. but if you do that shit guida does. i would fire you on the spot.

i rather have fighters like wand, leonardo garcia,leben fighting, then a bunch of runayways.

7/3/12 4:20 PM
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adamwj
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 Is a 12 pound pigeon fat?
7/3/12 4:46 PM
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MR Combatively
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No! he is making scientific fighters not bar room brawlers with fake black belts like a lot of American gyms

MR. Combatively
7/3/12 4:47 PM
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notsometourist
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To even compare what Guida did and what Condit did is just ridiculous. Condit used a stick and move game plan for sure, but he used it effectively: outlanding Diaz in every round and thus maintaining the aggressor (it's arguable that if Diaz had spent more of that fight throwing punches than shit-talking or bitch-slapping he could have won, but I digress). Condit threw punches and kicks all while avoiding the volume punching style of the sports best boxer. He only moved when his back hit the cage, where Diaz is at his best (as shown in the Penn fight and the Cyborg fight). He also did go for finishes (that fucking headkick!?) but Diaz might be the toughest son of a bitch to put away in the division.

Guida, on the other hand, was literally turning and sprinting around the cage. He threw very few punches or kicks, barely shot for takedowns, and just bobbed around. It was a very boring fight for what it could have been. Unfortunately one guy showed up for a fight, the other for a track meet. I mean no disrespect to Guida, he's been at this game a long fucking time. But on the cusp of possibly getting a number 1 contendership fight, a boring fight serves no one. You win a fight YOU made boring, you will not get that #1 spot, plain and simple. This is a sport based on fandom and results. You need both. Jon Fitch gets results. But being a point fighter has cost him his fandom, if no one wants to see you fight, they won't. While it is true that Guida has lost those exciting fights, he has become a mainstay because of them. His durability and willingness to compete and to never stop trying has made him a fan favourite. But after a dismal performance, his stock has now dropped considerably.

Now many are apparently asking "should we fault Greg Jackson for his gameplanning and is it ruining MMA?" The answer is no. Jackson-Winklejohn fighters have a higher finishing rate than any other camp and has a stable of some of the most exciting fighters in this sport today (Donald Cerrone, Leonard Garcia, Jon Jones etc.). In the end it's the fighter who steps into the cage and fights how they are going to fight. If Greg feels that a particularly good idea would be to maintain distance from Maynard due to his wrestling strength and his short power punches, that is fine and well, fuck I'd probably tell Guida the same damn thing. But maybe Guida's inexperience with the style is what caused this fight to go sour. It's certainly comparable to Condit-Diaz of course, but I was thoroughly entertained watching a guy everyone counted out constantly frustrate the arguably number 3 p4p fighter at the time. This fight was absolutely atrocious though.

Is Greg Jackson ruining MMA? Of course not. Everybody gameplans. Anyone who says they don't is probably lying. You need a strategy to win a fight. Ever heard of the saying "You box a brawler and brawl a boxer?" That in itself is a gameplan. Gameplans are a part of sports, all sports. Knowing an opponents strengths and weaknesses is pivotal to survival. Was Greg's gameplan in this fight correct? Perhaps not. That doesn't mean that it was wrong either, though. It just means that it didn;t work for a fighter like Gray who, just like Guida before, was a pressure fighter who never stops. Unfortunately stick and move (without the sticking part) against a pressure fighter usually turns into a track meet. Even Leonard Garcia has said that he gameplans but when he gets in there it just all goes away quickly and he reverts to his usual stand and bang style. In the end it's the fighter who chooses what to do in the cage. You don't think Greg would have wanted Guida to punch more or shoot for takedowns and put Gray, a wrestler, on his back? Of course he would have. But Clay fought how he fought, it's not Greg's fault.
7/3/12 4:53 PM
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Masakyst
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Speaking of Greg Jackson's fighters, on the same night as the Guida/Maynard fight, Cub Swanson got an incredible KO of the night

7/3/12 4:55 PM
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MR Combatively
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If you can't beat defense or scientifically beat someone's game plan then you are a mental midget! The object is to win fights regaurdless of the outcome. It may not be the prettiest ,but you want to win to get to the title! If a finish comes that's fine but if you win you WIN!

MR. Combatively
7/3/12 5:04 PM
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Chimonos Revenge
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SlyStallowned - 
buckshot44 - Is Jackson ruining MMA? No. Is he ruining fighters? Perhaps. Who would have thought Clay Guida would ever be in a "boring" fight? That clearly would never have happened without master Jackson and his "gameplan". Guida used to be one of the most exciting fighters out there.


"Guida used to be one of the most exciting fighters out there"

This is one of the biggest fallacies out there about Guida. The ONLY exciting fights this guy has ever had are ones where he has gotten his ass beat. The fights with Bendo, Florian and Sanchez were all exciting NOT because of what Clay did, but what his opponents did to him

On the other hand, the fights he "won" against Gomi, Pettis and Diaz for example are some of the most boring, lay and pray garbage you will ever see. His gameplan has always been to hop around and hold down his opponents down to try and prevent them from doing anything.


This is a pretty fair assessment of Guida, i think.

Don't be fooled just by the long hair and "bouncing around", that does not make an exciting fighter.
7/3/12 5:09 PM
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UGCTT_Fillthy
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Win/loss isn't the most important thing to Zuffa when negotiating contracts. Clay was 1-5 in FOTN, but was never on the chopping block.


Now he's looking at fighting on the undercard, and he's a 15 minute jog from the unemployment line.
7/3/12 5:11 PM
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Chimonos Revenge
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As for Greg Jackson and his gameplanning, i think the issue is creating a game plan with the intent to win a decision.

Create a game plan that will expose your opponent's weaknesses and create an opening for a finish, either submission or knockout. If that just doesnt happen, hope you did enough to win the decision.

Don't start right from day 1 with the intent of winning a 5 round decision. That is a defeatest mentality right from the beginning.

It's basically telling your fighter "Well, I don't think you are good enough to actually KO or sumbit your opponent, so let's try to steal a win on points."

Greg Jackson may be content with doing that, but it's obvious the fans are tired of it.

Im also one of the first people to defend GSP when people call him boring and DO not think Diaz as robbed against Condit.
7/3/12 8:24 PM
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lookoutawhale
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 He game plans well. Its probably the octagon that should be made smaller.

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