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UnderGround Forums >> Women in the UFC: It’s Time


7/12/12 4:17 PM
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inf0
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 moar ring girls? I agree 100%

7/12/12 4:18 PM
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Thacommish
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Pretty sure you just said you are willing to subject yourself to 1 or 2 as long as its camouflaged in your normal dude fights. Like a child trying to hide broccoli in other foods to convince himself he isnt eating it. And now you want to hide the broccoli in everyone elses food... i say fuck off to you on that plan just because you arent man enough to handle it on its own doesnt mean we need to be subjected to little bits of it to help you tolerate it.
7/12/12 4:24 PM
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valetudosuperfight
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Goku's little contrition - to be charitable to you - still puts him a foot closer to the finish line than you commersimpson.
7/12/12 4:24 PM
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goku
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Thacommish - Pretty sure you just said you are willing to subject yourself to 1 or 2 as long as its camouflaged in your normal dude fights. Like a child trying to hide broccoli in other foods to convince himself he isnt eating it. And now you want to hide the broccoli in everyone elses food... i say fuck off to you on that plan just because you arent man enough to handle it on its own doesnt mean we need to be subjected to little bits of it to help you tolerate it.

 uhhh no i didnt say that...i dont want to watch an entire card full of women because there arent enough quality women to fill an entire card...i would take a carano, cyborg or rousey over most of the guys that fight on current ufc cards tho...r u too slow to grasp this?
7/12/12 4:26 PM
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Munk
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if you want to watch slow, boring fights you could just replay a Bisping match at 1/2 speed.
7/12/12 4:28 PM
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Ew0k187
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Nope. Phone Post
7/12/12 4:32 PM
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kalki
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i do not want woman's mma...EVA!!!!!!! even the best look like c-levl fighters......wait what now anther slut poses nude playboy.......this is exactly why i don't support woman's mma,it's just a freak/stripper show and takes away from the pure mma-fight-only ,with no sideshow attraction.......
7/12/12 4:36 PM
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Thacommish
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You realize of those 3 people only 1 can actually fight..... right? and how would you build up the next contender for a super fight or do you plan on just having those 3 go at each other indefinitely? Do you just expect another org devoted solely to women to build up these people and sacrifice their largest commodities to zuffa for these 1 off fights? What exactly is this idea of yours.. how duz it werk.
7/12/12 4:38 PM
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valetudosuperfight
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Having chuck beat randy and tito 2x did not make people clamor for the destruction of the LHW division.

You haven't been keeping up with this thread at all have you? what is your obsession with goku and 3 episode long powerups?
7/12/12 5:13 PM
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Neil Funk
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It's coming. Women will fight on the biggest stage, and you primitive armchair analysts can either get used to it, or watch something else.
7/12/12 5:22 PM
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goku
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Thacommish - You realize of those 3 people only 1 can actually fight..... right? and how would you build up the next contender for a super fight or do you plan on just having those 3 go at each other indefinitely? Do you just expect another org devoted solely to women to build up these people and sacrifice their largest commodities to zuffa for these 1 off fights? What exactly is this idea of yours.. how duz it werk.

 women stars have been created without the benefit of the ufc right? so they just need to keep doing what they are doing and zuffa can pluck fighters they like and think are marektable...pretty simple dude....
7/13/12 10:25 AM
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john joe
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Fighters Only, web monkey
Goku has got some amazonian femdom fetish going on
7/13/12 11:17 AM
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goku
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 just stating the facts...yeah, not everyone likes it, but many do...and even those that say they do not like it would watch ronda over many of the men on ufc cards...its the truth
7/13/12 1:19 PM
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Hadoukenkieran
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I wanted to see it anyway, this just makes a better case for it than I ever could. Hey if they are skilled, why not? Phone Post
7/13/12 1:22 PM
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jjj2121
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1. Severe lack of depth
2. Lots of people don't want to watch 2 women kick the shit out of each other.

I think we are a ways away from this.  Maybe 1 off fights with Rousey or Carano if she ever comes back...but to establish a division?  It's not time, and I don't think it'll be time for a long while.  People talk about how talented so many women are, I watched Carano/Cyborg and it was a complete slopfest.  I didn't see a ton of talent on display...and these were supposedly the best 2 145ers in the world.
7/13/12 1:26 PM
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Gormandized
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jjj2121 - 1. Severe lack of depth
2. Lots of people don't want to watch 2 women kick the shit out of each other.

I think we are a ways away from this.  Maybe 1 off fights with Rousey or Carano if she ever comes back...but to establish a division?  It's not time, and I don't think it'll be time for a long while.  People talk about how talented so many women are, I watched Carano/Cyborg and it was a complete slopfest.  I didn't see a ton of talent on display...and these were supposedly the best 2 145ers in the world.
There wasnt much depth in 1993 either and that was with no weight classes.

Once upon a time there were no women judoka, boxers or kickboxers. it takes time but I agree the UFC need to take a leap of faith.

would prefer the ladies over the midgets anyday. Phone Post
7/13/12 1:28 PM
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morse
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UGCTT_El Pescadero - 
Kirik - Great piece! I am 100% sold on the argument.
. Phone Post

 
7/13/12 1:30 PM
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jjj2121
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Gormandized - 
jjj2121 - 1. Severe lack of depth
2. Lots of people don't want to watch 2 women kick the shit out of each other.

I think we are a ways away from this.  Maybe 1 off fights with Rousey or Carano if she ever comes back...but to establish a division?  It's not time, and I don't think it'll be time for a long while.  People talk about how talented so many women are, I watched Carano/Cyborg and it was a complete slopfest.  I didn't see a ton of talent on display...and these were supposedly the best 2 145ers in the world.
There wasnt much depth in 1993 either and that was with no weight classes.

Once upon a time there were no women judoka, boxers or kickboxers. it takes time but I agree the UFC need to take a leap of faith.

would prefer the ladies over the midgets anyday. Phone Post
I don't see any womens boxing on PPV at the highest level either.  There isn't a market for it.
 
7/13/12 1:42 PM
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valetudosuperfight
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JkdSam is so obsessed with my one post echoing an (albeit minority) opinion shared by others in this thread, he does not even see them.

I could give a damn if there is a 'market' for it, that has not been the argument. The argument has been, "Well there is no depth." There was not depth at UFC 1 but people didn't tell royce gracie that he was wasting his time. Shit takes time to grow; Judo was not an olympic sport over night.

Women's basketball used to be on half-sized courts because people 'believed' that women would not be proficient at running the ball. Look at basketball when it first started, and not only was it boring but it looked like the D-league of the D-league too.

If you want to point out that on its own it probably is not self-sustainable on its own, well fine, but the lighter weight classes are only around because the higher weight classes keep the sport popular - are we going to chuck the light weight division because on its own it would never survive?
7/13/12 1:43 PM
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valetudosuperfight
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Bonnar/Griffin was sloppy by all accounts and some people (erroneously) believe that was fight of the decade.
7/13/12 1:45 PM
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kinson
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I'm for it if there are more than 3 relevant fighters. There just isn't enough good female fights. Sorry Honda. Phone Post
7/13/12 1:45 PM
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MattyECB
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I think the HW division comparison is stupid for a number of reason, although these are just opinions and I still think TS gave a smart and reasoned argument so I'd love to be refuted.



One, Pride had an incredible HW division so for a long portion of the time it would have been stupid to fold up the UFCs. Regardless of depth issues, they needed it to remain competitive.

Two, HWs are historically the headliners and what a casual fan / potential fan will gravitate towards - this is also the reason why women's mma has existed outside the UFC but never been a fully exploitable niche to steal away market share. Again, unlike the HW division where every would-be UFC comptetitor tried to rival the UFC.

Three, there isn't established talent to support the division outside the division. Having claim to the LH crown jewel for so long, the UFC could funnel fighters in nearby divisions to stand in. This is a somewhat weak argument since LH-->HW jumps aren't that frequent, but my point is to try and keep in mind how godamn long Couture held that division up.




Rousey, Carano and Cyborg may have recognition, but it's not like HW where you can take talent like Fedor and put him against some can-behemoth, and turn his victory into an awesome spectacle. Putting Carano against lower competition is painful to watch, putting talented HW fighters against untalented giants is still pretty godamn entertaining.
Try to think from the casual fan aspect.
Monster is beat to shit uncompetitively = Awesome.
Cute girl is beat to shit uncompetitively = Assault
7/13/12 1:45 PM
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kinson
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valetudosuperfight - Bonnar/Griffin was sloppy by all accounts and some people (erroneously) believe that was fight of the decade.
Like me Phone Post
7/13/12 1:48 PM
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MattyECB
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So if tl;dr:

UFC HW division held open for other reasons, and

People will put up with shit HWs who immediately gas way better than shit females.
7/13/12 1:58 PM
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MattyECB
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Gormandized - 
jjj2121 - 1. Severe lack of depth
2. Lots of people don't want to watch 2 women kick the shit out of each other.

I think we are a ways away from this.  Maybe 1 off fights with Rousey or Carano if she ever comes back...but to establish a division?  It's not time, and I don't think it'll be time for a long while.  People talk about how talented so many women are, I watched Carano/Cyborg and it was a complete slopfest.  I didn't see a ton of talent on display...and these were supposedly the best 2 145ers in the world.
There wasnt much depth in 1993 either and that was with no weight classes.<br><br>Once upon a time there were no women judoka, boxers or kickboxers. it takes time but I agree the UFC need to take a leap of faith.<br><br>would prefer the ladies over the midgets anyday. <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


This is also a poor argument imo

At 1993, there was little depth or knowledge of the sport so they drew from the best available sources. Too limited in depth to institute weight classes, they just went for the best of the best which is males of any size and discipline.


Once they got more depth they could then split hairs into divisions, and this is also the reason they keep adding smaller divisions sequentially. Women's mma represents a weaker form of mma and a dilution in the market. This is really fact.
It also represents positives like interest to other demographics, but imo ones that ovelap not that are exclusive and could offer new audiences. Before you risk showing crappy fights and spending tons of money on promotion and investment into wMMA, finish establishing the men's divisions.

I'm alot happier seeing if wMMA continues to grow outside the UFC then the UFC taking on the risk of building a division already hindered by a number of issues - ranging from pragmatic to even cultural, such as audience's reaction to a severely hurt woman and more specifically, a lopsided fight where a man-beast like Carano might ruin a pretty girl.
The UFC HAD to grow at 1993, right now it has choice of WHERE to grow, and I don't think growth in women's divisions is a smart business move or a safe one, especially with all the scrutiny following the UFC's recent growth into network TV.

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