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UnderGround Forums >> Women in the UFC: It’s Time


7/13/12 1:58 PM
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MattyECB
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Gormandized - 
jjj2121 - 1. Severe lack of depth
2. Lots of people don't want to watch 2 women kick the shit out of each other.

I think we are a ways away from this.  Maybe 1 off fights with Rousey or Carano if she ever comes back...but to establish a division?  It's not time, and I don't think it'll be time for a long while.  People talk about how talented so many women are, I watched Carano/Cyborg and it was a complete slopfest.  I didn't see a ton of talent on display...and these were supposedly the best 2 145ers in the world.
There wasnt much depth in 1993 either and that was with no weight classes.<br><br>Once upon a time there were no women judoka, boxers or kickboxers. it takes time but I agree the UFC need to take a leap of faith.<br><br>would prefer the ladies over the midgets anyday. <img src="/images/phone/apple.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


This is also a poor argument imo

At 1993, there was little depth or knowledge of the sport so they drew from the best available sources. Too limited in depth to institute weight classes, they just went for the best of the best which is males of any size and discipline.


Once they got more depth they could then split hairs into divisions, and this is also the reason they keep adding smaller divisions sequentially. Women's mma represents a weaker form of mma and a dilution in the market. This is really fact.
It also represents positives like interest to other demographics, but imo ones that ovelap not that are exclusive and could offer new audiences. Before you risk showing crappy fights and spending tons of money on promotion and investment into wMMA, finish establishing the men's divisions.

I'm alot happier seeing if wMMA continues to grow outside the UFC then the UFC taking on the risk of building a division already hindered by a number of issues - ranging from pragmatic to even cultural, such as audience's reaction to a severely hurt woman and more specifically, a lopsided fight where a man-beast like Carano might ruin a pretty girl.
The UFC HAD to grow at 1993, right now it has choice of WHERE to grow, and I don't think growth in women's divisions is a smart business move or a safe one, especially with all the scrutiny following the UFC's recent growth into network TV.
7/13/12 2:07 PM
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goku
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 i think all this talk about a "divison" is missing the point..its not really about creating a women's "division"..its about letting women in the ufc...and there are currently women who could outdraw and outtechnique men...

look ata pacquiao...who do you know who is in his "division"? how many knew who the hell tim bradly was before his fight with pacman? and it did 750,000 views or something like that...

who cares about divisons? its about interesting fights period...there are so many divsions in the ufc now, not every division is represented on every card and thats fine, just like you dont have to have women on every card
7/13/12 2:09 PM
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valetudosuperfight
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I think you feel it is a poor argument because you do not fully understand it.

If we deployed the same arguments that are used against WMMA against MMA, then we should come to the same conclusion: that the sport shouldn't be taken seriously, or allowed to develop because there is nothing CURRENTLY to develop.

Used to there was a cultural reaction to seeing GnP, broken limbs, and knees to the face, but people overcame that as well.

A weaker form of MMA? Endless decisions is weak MMA.

Getting rid of soccer kicks, knees to a downed opponent, 12-6 elbows, groin shots, head butts,hair grabbing, and so on represents a weaker form of MMA.

The fact that WMMA gets one set of arguments that for some reason for not apply to mens MMA is one of the reasons why people cry sexism - because whats good for one is not good for the other based SOLELY on the gender of the participants.

I am sure boudicia was thinking about how much of a weak pussy she was when she smashed the roman legions out of briton.
7/13/12 2:14 PM
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goku
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Canucks1337 - can you please list 5 interesting women fights that would display great technique


how many fights does honda have? there u go..olympic medal winner plus finishes in the first round,...how many olympic medal winners are in the ufc?
7/13/12 2:17 PM
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valetudosuperfight
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Coleman won silver at the world championships.

Pan American games are pretty much crap imo.


er....

I am sure there are more.
7/13/12 2:25 PM
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SleepBomb
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goku - 
Canucks1337 - can you please list 5 interesting women fights that would display great technique


how many fights does honda have? there u go..olympic medal winner plus finishes in the first round,...how many olympic medal winners are in the ufc?

 you have ronda. you have sarah mcmann. then there is tate, kaufman, and a few others.

having a women's div in the ufc would bring up the comp level after a few years.

i mean, how are the woman going to be any worse than half the fights from the last 2 ufc events?

Also, Invicta was pretty fucking good.
7/13/12 2:31 PM
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Nexuscrawlers
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 invicta was great, i dont care if women are in the UFC really, as long as womens mma stays around.
its not for everyone, but i like it
good fights are good fights imo

also, it doesnt help that the biggest stars in womens MMA are also in the weakest womens division.
7/13/12 2:31 PM
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Herring In A Fur Coat
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It's not time yet.

I think Zuffa should test the waters by turning StrikeForce into a womens' league. This will 1) allow the talent pool to develop and 2) show if the concept of female MMA is at all viable from a business perspective.

Throwing a couple of women's fights on UFC cards like they are currently doing in Strikeforce will accomplish nothing.
7/13/12 2:46 PM
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goku
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 i dont understand how people who dont want womens fighting because they think the talent pool is not deep enough want an entire league of woemn...makes no sense
7/13/12 3:07 PM
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Herring In A Fur Coat
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goku -  i dont understand how people who dont want womens fighting because they think the talent pool is not deep enough want an entire league of woemn...makes no sense


Because the talent pool will develop much quicker when a promotion is putting 5-10 womens bouts on each card rather than the 1-2 that would be thrown in on a UFC card.
7/13/12 3:09 PM
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valetudosuperfight
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I do not think the talent pool for LW is hurt by only being on one card here, one prelim there, and so one.
7/13/12 3:09 PM
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goku
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Herring In A Fur Coat - 
goku -  i dont understand how people who dont want womens fighting because they think the talent pool is not deep enough want an entire league of woemn...makes no sense


Because the talent pool will develop much quicker when a promotion is putting 5-10 womens bouts on each card rather than the 1-2 that would be thrown in on a UFC card.
no it wont because noone will watch...strikeforce was able top build women stars mixing with men..why not just continue that way...there are not enough quality women for a divsiion, so lets make a whole league..makes no sense
 
7/13/12 3:16 PM
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Herring In A Fur Coat
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goku - 
Herring In A Fur Coat - 
goku -  i dont understand how people who dont want womens fighting because they think the talent pool is not deep enough want an entire league of woemn...makes no sense


Because the talent pool will develop much quicker when a promotion is putting 5-10 womens bouts on each card rather than the 1-2 that would be thrown in on a UFC card.
no it wont because noone will watch...strikeforce was able top build women stars mixing with men..why not just continue that way...there are not enough quality women for a divsiion, so lets make a whole league..makes no sense
 



Strikeforce has been able to build a grand total of 2 women stars and only 1 other recognizable fighter who will never quite be a star because of her lack of sex appeal.

Women's MMA doesn't need to build stars, it needs to build depth. And that just won't happen by randomly trowing a fight or two on a UFC card.
7/13/12 3:47 PM
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SleepBomb
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Herring In A Fur Coat -
Strikeforce has been able to build a grand total of 2 women stars and only 1 other recognizable fighter who will never quite be a star because of her lack of sex appeal.

Women's MMA doesn't need to build stars, it needs to build depth. And that just won't happen by randomly trowing a fight or two on a UFC card.

 it happens by more girls training. if girls are in ufc then that is more exposure and more potential to make money. this will = deeper division
7/13/12 3:57 PM
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Herring In A Fur Coat
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Herring In A Fur Coat -
Strikeforce has been able to build a grand total of 2 women stars and only 1 other recognizable fighter who will never quite be a star because of her lack of sex appeal.

Women's MMA doesn't need to build stars, it needs to build depth. And that just won't happen by randomly trowing a fight or two on a UFC card.

 it happens by more girls training. if girls are in ufc then that is more exposure and more potential to make money. this will = deeper division



There is no reason Zuffa couldn't put a ton of exposure and hype behind a female league if they felt it was a good investment.
7/13/12 4:03 PM
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Thacommish
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There is 1 reason why they couldn't or i should say wouldn't and its $$$. What money does this generate for them? are they tapping into a new demographic of people that only watch wmma but not mma? or are they just catering to a small niche in what is already their fan base? generally there needs to be an opportunity to MAKE money to justify spending it
7/13/12 4:03 PM
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goku
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Herring In A Fur Coat - 
goku - 
Herring In A Fur Coat - 
goku -  i dont understand how people who dont want womens fighting because they think the talent pool is not deep enough want an entire league of woemn...makes no sense


Because the talent pool will develop much quicker when a promotion is putting 5-10 womens bouts on each card rather than the 1-2 that would be thrown in on a UFC card.
no it wont because noone will watch...strikeforce was able top build women stars mixing with men..why not just continue that way...there are not enough quality women for a divsiion, so lets make a whole league..makes no sense
 



Strikeforce has been able to build a grand total of 2 women stars and only 1 other recognizable fighter who will never quite be a star because of her lack of sex appeal.

Women's MMA doesn't need to build stars, it needs to build depth. And that just won't happen by randomly trowing a fight or two on a UFC card.
who watches depth? noone watches combat sports for depth...they watch it for stars

how many boxers can u name in pacquiao or floyd mayweather's divisions? these two are the most famous combat athletes in the world and bring in mega 1M ppv buys...

its ALL about the star...
 
7/13/12 4:05 PM
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Herring In A Fur Coat
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Thacommish - There is 1 reason why they couldn't or i should say wouldn't and its $$$. What money does this generate for them? are they tapping into a new demographic of people that only watch wmma but not mma? or are they just catering to a small niche in what is already their fan base? generally there needs to be an opportunity to MAKE money to justify spending it


Which is why the whole discussion is pointless. There is no market.
7/13/12 4:06 PM
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goku
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 except for the market that generated higher ratings than fedor, hendo and diaz...just that..
7/13/12 4:11 PM
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Herring In A Fur Coat
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goku - 
Herring In A Fur Coat - 
goku - 
Herring In A Fur Coat - 
goku -  i dont understand how people who dont want womens fighting because they think the talent pool is not deep enough want an entire league of woemn...makes no sense


Because the talent pool will develop much quicker when a promotion is putting 5-10 womens bouts on each card rather than the 1-2 that would be thrown in on a UFC card.
no it wont because noone will watch...strikeforce was able top build women stars mixing with men..why not just continue that way...there are not enough quality women for a divsiion, so lets make a whole league..makes no sense
 



Strikeforce has been able to build a grand total of 2 women stars and only 1 other recognizable fighter who will never quite be a star because of her lack of sex appeal.

Women's MMA doesn't need to build stars, it needs to build depth. And that just won't happen by randomly trowing a fight or two on a UFC card.
who watches depth? noone watches combat sports for depth...they watch it for stars

how many boxers can u name in pacquiao or floyd mayweather's divisions? these two are the most famous combat athletes in the world and bring in mega 1M ppv buys...

its ALL about the star...
 



How many boxers can you name nowadays in any division? What happens when Pacquiao and Mayweather retire? Where is the the next generation of stars? Yet boxing will still go on without them, just like NBA went on without Michael Jordan, and MMA goes on without Royce and Tito and Chuck and Fedor...

Stars are great but you need a deep solid foundation. It doesn't exist in WMMA at the moment, and it's impossible to build one by having an occasional girl-fight on a UFC card.

7/13/12 4:12 PM
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Herring In A Fur Coat
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goku -  except for the market that generated higher ratings than fedor, hendo and diaz...just that..


If the market exists then why is an all-female league not viable? You could still have your handful of stars, AND a foundation for building new ones.
7/13/12 4:17 PM
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goku
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Herring In A Fur Coat - 
goku - 
Herring In A Fur Coat - 
goku - 
Herring In A Fur Coat - 
goku -  i dont understand how people who dont want womens fighting because they think the talent pool is not deep enough want an entire league of woemn...makes no sense


Because the talent pool will develop much quicker when a promotion is putting 5-10 womens bouts on each card rather than the 1-2 that would be thrown in on a UFC card.
no it wont because noone will watch...strikeforce was able top build women stars mixing with men..why not just continue that way...there are not enough quality women for a divsiion, so lets make a whole league..makes no sense
 



Strikeforce has been able to build a grand total of 2 women stars and only 1 other recognizable fighter who will never quite be a star because of her lack of sex appeal.

Women's MMA doesn't need to build stars, it needs to build depth. And that just won't happen by randomly trowing a fight or two on a UFC card.
who watches depth? noone watches combat sports for depth...they watch it for stars

how many boxers can u name in pacquiao or floyd mayweather's divisions? these two are the most famous combat athletes in the world and bring in mega 1M ppv buys...

its ALL about the star...
 



How many boxers can you name nowadays in any division? What happens when Pacquiao and Mayweather retire? Where is the the next generation of stars? Yet boxing will still go on without them, just like NBA went on without Michael Jordan, and MMA goes on without Royce and Tito and Chuck and Fedor...

Stars are great but you need a deep solid foundation. It doesn't exist in WMMA at the moment, and it's impossible to build one by having an occasional girl-fight on a UFC card.

u are contradicting yourself...its easy

1) people watch fights for stars, not deep divisions

2) deep divisions are good because they help create stars for the futrue, but they are not necessary to create stars

ergo, while it would be nice to have a deep woemn's division, a deep divison is not necessary 1) to generate ppvs (this has been proven) or 2) to create stars (this has been proven
 
7/13/12 4:21 PM
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goku
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Herring In A Fur Coat - 
goku -  except for the market that generated higher ratings than fedor, hendo and diaz...just that..


If the market exists then why is an all-female league not viable? You could still have your handful of stars, AND a foundation for building new ones.
a market exists for individual women fighters mixed in with male cards..its just like a market exists for lighter weight fighters mixed in with higher wieght fighters

how would an entirely 125 lb league do? not very well...does that mean you cant have 125ers in the ufc? no

u guys are just blindly following dana's rhetoric that there arent enought women to create a division...noone watches a division! its nice to have but not necessary..this has already been proven..carano/cyborg was like the #2 or #3 highest rated strikefoce of all time..why is this so difficult to grasp?
 
7/13/12 4:25 PM
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goku
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Edited: 07/13/12 5:16 PM
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double
7/13/12 6:44 PM
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TSMontana
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Edited: 07/13/12 6:46 PM
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Honestly, I can't even name a 125lb, or 135lb fighter. I figure most of the "cream" will end up at 155 at some point, so I'll pay attention then. I can name at least 10 women MMA fighters.

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